passenger unknown.

How can you have a life with that mindset?
If I used that mindset, I wouldn't be as successful, or have the quality of life I have, not to mention I probably wouldn't have met some of the great people I have had the privilege if meeting, and I sure as heck wouldn't have made it in aviation.

Stuff happens, but things tend to work themselves out.

Use your gut, feel people out and enjoy life man!

I'm as adventurous as the next guy, but I was thinking about the kid who was killed in a young eagle flight recently and it got me thinking; when giving rides to strangers, how much of the "this could kill us both" disclaimer speech do you give? Do you guys feel it's even necessary? Do you ever use the speech to discourage wannabe passengers?
 
I've given first rides to a number of kids (not Young Eagles, just kids of friends). I ALWAYS talk to the parents without the kids around first. I won't even suggest it to the kids unless the parents say OK. Part of that conversation is that I'm (at a little over 200 hours) the equivalent of a newly licensed 16yo driver but with 55 yo judgement. If they're comfortable with it we go forward.

Also, for kids under ~10, I want another adult along for the first ride until I can see how the kid reacts. If there's a meltdown I don't want to have to deal with it while flying the plane.

I've also given first small plane rides to a number of adults. But the just walkup kind of acquaintance has never come up. I'd probably just see how it feels at the time.

John
 
I'm as adventurous as the next guy, but I was thinking about the kid who was killed in a young eagle flight recently and it got me thinking; when giving rides to strangers, how much of the "this could kill us both" disclaimer speech do you give? Do you guys feel it's even necessary? Do you ever use the speech to discourage wannabe passengers?


That is a very interesting thought to ponder.

I always ask new people at 3-4 different check points
Prior to entering the plane: "Are you comfortable / Still good do go / Questions / concerns"

After engine start: "How are you doing? Still good to go?

While taxiing to the run-up:
"You are in charge of what we do. If you are uncomfortable, speak up don't sit quiet for fear of annoying me. Let me know at any point in time if you do not wish to continue we have 100 airports we can land at in a moments' notice"

And regardless of new or used pax, prior to taking the runway I ask if everyone is good to go.


So that is my drill. It never occurs to me to point out the danger. I assume everyone knows they are in a flying metal death trap so I try not to bring it up. I tried one time telling a pax about what would happen if the engine quit, my plan for this and that and he said "Please stop talking about that. If something goes wrong, I trust you to deal with it but I prefer not to think about that while I am in here."

I got to thinking about that parent that put their kid in a plane with a complete stranger and lost them. I know we can't bubble wrap the world but watching a group of parents send their kids up with strangers after that incident gave me the hebee geebes (sp) a bit. I couldn't quit thinking about it.
 
How can you have a life with that mindset?
If I used that mindset, I wouldn't be as successful, or have the quality of life I have, not to mention I probably wouldn't have met some of the great people I have had the privilege if meeting, and I sure as heck wouldn't have made it in aviation.

Stuff happens, but things tend to work themselves out.

Use your gut, feel people out and enjoy life man!

Comparing someone's risk tolerance in their business dealings and benevolent acts is apples/oranges IMO.

I was a commercial general contractor for 10 years and was quite successful at it. Wanna talk about taking risks! People used to ask why did didn't like casinos. I'd respond "because I gamble every freakin' day. Why would I want to do it for fun?"

OTOH...when it comes to helping people or flying people I'm quite generous but far more cautious because the risk/reward analysis is completely different. For example: I fly dogs all the time but I can't bring myself to fly angel flights in a single engine aircraft. Dogs are far less likely to sue me and/or my heirs if we wind up in a fireball.

Besides, I like dogs better than I like people! :goofy:

I'm very civic minded and volunteer a lot of my time and money in various ways but in far lower risk ways.
 
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Wait a minute. Your profile says you run a flight school and I assume your a CFI. That is different in my book when taking strangers up for a flight. Your running a business and flying under Part 41 or Part 121. Its not good business practice to turn people away.





Took a complete stranger flying yesterday. Only know his first name. Still do. We spent an hour doing steeps and stalls and comm maneuvers, and assorted other random fun things in my Vtail.

It only has one yoke. He had it from startup to the turn from base to final. He refused to attempt a landing, even though I offered. :D

Liability concerns are for people who think they'll live forever, or are greedy with their things and worry about them being taken away. If I kill a stranger and I live -- guess what, they may take all of my stuff away. Boo hoo. I'll go get more stuff.

In the meantime, I made a complete stranger grin for an hour, and now he's got a thing to be excited about that he didn't have yesterday. That's worth something in the cosmic scoreboard I figure.

$0.02
 
I have taken kids up but it was along time ago for Scouting Aviation merit badge. I would give them basic ground school for an hour and the flight was optional. If they didn't take the flight they still got their aviation merit badge. I had the parents sign a consent form.

For first time passengers I show them the checklist. I review the items with them to help them understand what is going on. Just prior to entering the airplane I ask are you ok. Just prior to take off ground roll I ask again how are you feeling are you ok.
I yet to have anyone ask to turn back in the air or on the ground except my mother in a C150 in Las Vegas 15k winds. We were getting tossed around a bit. For me it was nothing as I was used to it. I did all my training in a C150.

I applaud you all for taking up people you just meet or hardly know. I'm not that type of person. I understand its a judgment call and that is why I never give a quick yes answer to take them flying.
 
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Wait a minute. Your profile says you run a flight school and I assume your a CFI. That is different in my book when taking strangers up for a flight. Your running a business and flying under Part 41 or Part 121. Its not good business practice to turn people away.

Thanks, I should update that -- we sold the school 3 years ago. :D

I run a small maintenance outfit now, but I have 3 planes there, and we get transient folks all the time that come in to say hi (our airport fence is not locked, thankfully).. and it often leads to an offer of "well, wanna go fly?"
 
Chick......yes.....dude.....obviously not

ok seriously, in 13 years of certified aviating, I have never carried a single passenger. Not one. Aside from various instructors on instructional flights. So maybe my standards are high :)

Tactical Jets don't count....unless you want to PM me. Just tell me where to show up. Just the fact that you're some guy on the forum that flies jets is enough for me.:D
 
My worst stranger flight was back in MD many years ago. I was supposed to take pics from the air of the Peach Bottom nuke plant for land grading and promotional use. I know, today it seems bizarre that someone would actually fly over, and circle a nuke plant, but this was in the 80s and we weren't all paranoid of the small plane.

So, anyway, I'm futzing around with the C150 and a couple show up in a cheap car and look at the planes on the ramp. They say hi, and we chat a bit and they ask if I can take them for a ride. I say no, I can take one, but we're going to be flying lower altitude, and it may be bumpy, and I'm going to be taking pictures also, so this is a little different than sight seeing. I thought they were a couple, but turns out it was siblings. So, the girl says she will go, has no problems with roller coasters, doesn't mind a bumpy car, etc. I get done, we hop in and I set up my camera, and give a briefing.

Off we go. A bit bumpy at 1200' and we had a med overcast around 3000' so no way I can go up higher, besides I need to take pics. We get over the Susquehanna river, and I follow it upstream to the plant and set up a left 360. I glanced over a few times on the way, and she's not talking much. Just the 'yes', 'no' to a question. When I start my second turn around, she says 'I am going to be sick'. So - of course I say 'use your purse'. (no barf bags, darn).

She tosses all of her bkfst of eggs and some grits and maybe sausage, and I can surely smell it, so now I get nauseous. I've never barfed in a plane or car, and not going to start now. But - I'd been drinking the prev night, and it's all coming back to me now. Anyway, she dry heaves a few times, and I'm busy snapping photos, but they don't look very good due to the overcast. Finally I'm done, and headed back as slow as I can, but still bumpy. She blows some more out, and I think she got some small intestine to come out this time, cause there sure wasn't any food left in her. Now she's crying. Gah, like I need that.

We get back on the ground, and she's fine now and tries to clean up as best she can. I park at the FBO and she runs inside and I think more comes out of both ends, cause she's in there a while. I was chatting with her brother and I tell him 'ah - it didn't go so good, she got pretty sick'. He's just laughing. I tell him I have to go next day when the sun is out to redo the pics, and he's welcome to come along so he says he might be here.

Sure enough, I'm back the next day, better sun, and the guy shows up for his ride. Of we go, same bumpy, same turns, and I didn't learn my lesson, he's gonna puke!, and this time no purse. I made a trough out of the sectional, and he gave his best impression of the living dead wretching into that thing. Stupid, stupid, stupid, should have grabbed some bags. Anyway, mission done, we get back he's greener than Ireland, and I drop him off. On the way out I tell him to be honest and tell his sister he blew chunks too. He just got in his car and hauled azz.

Not a good day back then for rides, but I was younger, and not as caring as I am now. Now, I always have barf bags.
 
I have taken strangers up on a moments notice on occassion. If they don't seem criminal, nor crazy they can fly with me...
Glad I passed the test! :D

I got a ride in a Tiger this way ... oh wait - you already said that ...

I got to fly a Bellanca Viking this way ... traded a few emails on the Viking chat when I was (still am) head over heels crazy in love with the wooden wonder. Guy flew his up to Boulder from Co Springs one time and needed a ride to a job interview. Since I was working in Boulder at the time, I met him at the airport and gave him a ride to his interview and back to the airport, and then flew around for a half hour.

Like any good crack dealer, "your first sample is free" :D
 
I flew in Alaska for 7 years. We would put passengers in the right front seat if needed. The only problem I had was one guy reached from the second row and tried to grab the yoke. I used my flight can and smacked him on his head. It bent my flight can and rendered it useless, and he got the idea.

For the last 8 years I have been flying air ambulance here in New Mexico. I sometimes put a family member of the patient in the right front seat. One night we picked up a patient in Black Rock in the Zuni reservation. I put an elderly lady, a little tiny thing, in the right front seat. As usual, I explain what I will be doing and what noises she will hear. I show her how to fasten and unfasten the belts, location and operation of the fire extinguisher, how to exit the plane and to not talk to me but just put her hand on my shoulder if she needs to talk to me. And most importantly do not touch the control yoke.

She understood everything, so off we go. The runway is narrow and dark, just barely enough lights to see a straight line for take off. The runway is bumpy so I get the nose wheel off the ground as soon as I can. At that point this little old native lady put her hands on the yoke. Not trying to take control, but more like to see how it feels.

I take my hand off the throttles and move her hands off the yoke. She then put her hands under her legs and kept them there for the 1 hour flight.

In my business having a passenger in the right front seat is just part of doing business. I always ask if they have been in a small plane before. I then explain as much as I can about what I will be doing and what noises they will hear. Sitting in the front seat gives excellent visibility. Some of the people around here have never seen their home town from the air. And I always have barf bags at the ready, but never had anyone blow chunks. Yet.....

I once had a very seriously ill patient that was so ill the doctor traveled with us. She rode in back and filled up every barf bag we had. She was so air sick that she rented a car to drive back to the village.
 
Glad I passed the test! :D

I got a ride in a Tiger this way ... oh wait - you already said that ...

I got to fly a Bellanca Viking this way ... traded a few emails on the Viking chat when I was (still am) head over heels crazy in love with the wooden wonder. Guy flew his up to Boulder from Co Springs one time and needed a ride to a job interview. Since I was working in Boulder at the time, I met him at the airport and gave him a ride to his interview and back to the airport, and then flew around for a half hour.

Like any good crack dealer, "your first sample is free" :D

Well, I had my doubts Greg, but things worked out anyway. :D

My hangar neighbor at KFTG had a Viking that I got to fly. I really liked it. There was a Young Eagles/Cubscout event where a bunch of guys were taking the kids up, but nobody was offering to take up the scout leader, so I did.
 
That is an amazing transformation! A little makeup and some glasses, she looks good either way, but wow the black outfit is WAY different than the character she plays! :yes:

was it this chick ---->

bernadette.jpg
 
My best is still an angel-flight gone wrong.. I had an amusing write-up on BT a few years ago, wish I had saved it.

Oh, wait, it's still there thanks to over-zealous quotings by Dino :D

(holy cow, that was 5 years ago. Getting old sucks!)


Mike Brannigan wrote:
warning: crude chuckle and facepalm ahead.

==

So, Saturday we took on a last-minute angel flight for a fellow who needed to travel from San Diego to Burbank, and then back again. Since weather and "life" has been keeping us out of the angel flight loop for most of this year, my copilot Joanne and I decided to grab the flight. It was to arrive in Burbank no later than 9am, meaning we needed to leave our home field of Hawthorne at 6:45am. The return was at 2pm from Burbank, so we had 5 hours to kill, and used the time to visit the cuban bakery, Porto's (the only good thing in the valley ;) ), and catch a movie (Star Trek, nice!).

All 4 legs were to be in the soup, so it was a tranquil flight. Down and back for the first leg was no trouble, and our companion was a nice and chatty kid who had survived a particular heart procedure, and was interviewing to be a camp counselor for similarly afflicted people. We also noted that our friend was "developmentally delayed", or whatever the current euphemism is. This was my first up-close experience with someone so afflicted, and I enjoyed the trip, as the guy had very funny jokes, and was always laughing for some reason. It warmed my heart. He even asked me what happens when my airspeed gets to 240. I said the wings fall off. He laughed and said "uh oh, okay, let's not do that". I concurred. :D

It was on the return flight from Burbank back to San Diego that we got routed inland east, then south. More soup, no problems, and our friend was quiet in the back -- I assumed he was tired from his interview and travels. I flew the altitudes and vectors, Joanne busied herself about her iPod, and life was good.

I don't know what compelled me to peek in the back on our friend after about 20 minutes.

Here is my kneeboard flight log, and a quick pen-based chat with Joanne about events I discovered to be unfolding in the rear seats.

strangel-flight.JPG


:shock: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

So a few peeks to the rear from both of us confirmed that, yes, we were helping one of Jerry's kids achieve the solo mile high club. There wasn't anything in the angel flight orientation to cover THIS. We just giggled to ourselves and flew on.

5 minutes later, he was asleep, shirt half-unbuttoned, slumped over the seat. Snoring.

On the ground at montgomery, he popped out of the plane and trundled into Gibbs FBO, where he changed into a spare set of clothes, which he had thoughtfully already packed in his backpack! Apparently this is something he was prepared for.

Luckily, and to the delight of my line clean-up crew, he, er, "packed out" his business in its entirety, and my interior remains unblemished. I'd even fly with him again, but I'd probably grab one of our cessnas to do it in. I can't help but feel a little violated.

I'm gonna stick with cancer patients from now on.

Damn. :doh:
 
The dialog in the OP seems oddly pushy if that's how it really went down.

I don't blame you for being a bit skeptical.

People that set off the odd-meter have to clear a few more hurdles. Then again, good criminals are expert at not setting off odd-meters.

I don't have a lot of people asking me to fly. Most people I know are scared chitless of little planes. I keep the offer open but I never push people to do it. I don't want to be the guy that takes a person up who doesn't really want to be there and they hate it.
 
My best is still an angel-flight gone wrong.. I had an amusing write-up on BT a few years ago, wish I had saved it.

Oh, wait, it's still there thanks to over-zealous quotings by Dino :D

(holy cow, that was 5 years ago. Getting old sucks!)


Mike Brannigan wrote:
warning: crude chuckle and facepalm ahead.

==

So, Saturday we took on a last-minute angel flight for a fellow who needed to travel from San Diego to Burbank, and then back again. Since weather and "life" has been keeping us out of the angel flight loop for most of this year, my copilot Joanne and I decided to grab the flight. It was to arrive in Burbank no later than 9am, meaning we needed to leave our home field of Hawthorne at 6:45am. The return was at 2pm from Burbank, so we had 5 hours to kill, and used the time to visit the cuban bakery, Porto's (the only good thing in the valley ;) ), and catch a movie (Star Trek, nice!).

All 4 legs were to be in the soup, so it was a tranquil flight. Down and back for the first leg was no trouble, and our companion was a nice and chatty kid who had survived a particular heart procedure, and was interviewing to be a camp counselor for similarly afflicted people. We also noted that our friend was "developmentally delayed", or whatever the current euphemism is. This was my first up-close experience with someone so afflicted, and I enjoyed the trip, as the guy had very funny jokes, and was always laughing for some reason. It warmed my heart. He even asked me what happens when my airspeed gets to 240. I said the wings fall off. He laughed and said "uh oh, okay, let's not do that". I concurred. :D

It was on the return flight from Burbank back to San Diego that we got routed inland east, then south. More soup, no problems, and our friend was quiet in the back -- I assumed he was tired from his interview and travels. I flew the altitudes and vectors, Joanne busied herself about her iPod, and life was good.

I don't know what compelled me to peek in the back on our friend after about 20 minutes.

Here is my kneeboard flight log, and a quick pen-based chat with Joanne about events I discovered to be unfolding in the rear seats.

strangel-flight.JPG


:shock: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

So a few peeks to the rear from both of us confirmed that, yes, we were helping one of Jerry's kids achieve the solo mile high club. There wasn't anything in the angel flight orientation to cover THIS. We just giggled to ourselves and flew on.

5 minutes later, he was asleep, shirt half-unbuttoned, slumped over the seat. Snoring.

On the ground at montgomery, he popped out of the plane and trundled into Gibbs FBO, where he changed into a spare set of clothes, which he had thoughtfully already packed in his backpack! Apparently this is something he was prepared for.

Luckily, and to the delight of my line clean-up crew, he, er, "packed out" his business in its entirety, and my interior remains unblemished. I'd even fly with him again, but I'd probably grab one of our cessnas to do it in. I can't help but feel a little violated.

I'm gonna stick with cancer patients from now on.

Damn. :doh:


:rofl: I should NOT have read this at work...
 
Tactical Jets don't count....unless you want to PM me. Just tell me where to show up. Just the fact that you're some guy on the forum that flies jets is enough for me.:D

Wish I could good sir. My wife gets first dibs though, in case I ever get a backseat and the regs change :)
 
My best is still an angel-flight gone wrong.. I had an amusing write-up on BT a few years ago, wish I had saved it.

Oh, wait, it's still there thanks to over-zealous quotings by Dino :D

(holy cow, that was 5 years ago. Getting old sucks!)


Mike Brannigan wrote:
warning: crude chuckle and facepalm ahead.

==

So, Saturday we took on a last-minute angel flight for a fellow who needed to travel from San Diego to Burbank, and then back again. Since weather and "life" has been keeping us out of the angel flight loop for most of this year, my copilot Joanne and I decided to grab the flight. It was to arrive in Burbank no later than 9am, meaning we needed to leave our home field of Hawthorne at 6:45am. The return was at 2pm from Burbank, so we had 5 hours to kill, and used the time to visit the cuban bakery, Porto's (the only good thing in the valley ;) ), and catch a movie (Star Trek, nice!).

All 4 legs were to be in the soup, so it was a tranquil flight. Down and back for the first leg was no trouble, and our companion was a nice and chatty kid who had survived a particular heart procedure, and was interviewing to be a camp counselor for similarly afflicted people. We also noted that our friend was "developmentally delayed", or whatever the current euphemism is. This was my first up-close experience with someone so afflicted, and I enjoyed the trip, as the guy had very funny jokes, and was always laughing for some reason. It warmed my heart. He even asked me what happens when my airspeed gets to 240. I said the wings fall off. He laughed and said "uh oh, okay, let's not do that". I concurred. :D

It was on the return flight from Burbank back to San Diego that we got routed inland east, then south. More soup, no problems, and our friend was quiet in the back -- I assumed he was tired from his interview and travels. I flew the altitudes and vectors, Joanne busied herself about her iPod, and life was good.

I don't know what compelled me to peek in the back on our friend after about 20 minutes.

Here is my kneeboard flight log, and a quick pen-based chat with Joanne about events I discovered to be unfolding in the rear seats.

strangel-flight.JPG


:shock: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

So a few peeks to the rear from both of us confirmed that, yes, we were helping one of Jerry's kids achieve the solo mile high club. There wasn't anything in the angel flight orientation to cover THIS. We just giggled to ourselves and flew on.

5 minutes later, he was asleep, shirt half-unbuttoned, slumped over the seat. Snoring.

On the ground at montgomery, he popped out of the plane and trundled into Gibbs FBO, where he changed into a spare set of clothes, which he had thoughtfully already packed in his backpack! Apparently this is something he was prepared for.

Luckily, and to the delight of my line clean-up crew, he, er, "packed out" his business in its entirety, and my interior remains unblemished. I'd even fly with him again, but I'd probably grab one of our cessnas to do it in. I can't help but feel a little violated.

I'm gonna stick with cancer patients from now on.

Damn. :doh:

Poor kid..... Not only is he mentally "slow".... He is going to go BLIND too..:D..:rofl:....:lol:
 
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who is this? I see "bernadette" in the .jpg filename

Bernadette is the name of the character (right), played by Melissa Rauch (left), on the TV show "The Big Bang Theory".
 
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We don't take anyone in our plane except blood relatives and a few long time friends. Ditto for carrying other people's kids in our car. Too much liability.
 
thanks for the comments all. Keep them coming.

This just happened last month...

Was out to dinner with a old racing buddy and his wife at the local golf club 19th hole,,,,

Chatting about the old times and past flying stuff, the waitress overheard us and spoke up while delivering the next round of food... Seems she took a discovery flight a few years back in her hometown of Boston.. I mentioned to her I flew about every day to patrol my irrigation ditches and she could ride along anytime.... This was on a Saturday night..

Next day ( Sunday), 10 hours later...I went to the airport and as I pass through the security gate, the front desk gal says over the speaker.. " There is someone in the lobby waiting for you".. She has been here for an hour or so waiting..:confused:..:dunno:...

So, I pull up the the rampside doors from the FBO and out runs this 24 year old ,cute as heck waitress and she says... Let's go...

I drive to my hangar. open the door, give her the checklist, explain all the preflight details and load her up.. Darn gal had a smile so big it will take a team of plastic surgeons a week to remove from her face...

Dial up ATIS, get a taxi clearance, head to the runway.. Just as we get on the main taxiway a Delta 757 zips by 100 feet away, rotates after using up 5000+ feet of the runway... We get to the end, call tower, get the cleared for take off and tell her, " keep your hand on the yoke and see how this thing works.. I do warn her we will be using ALOT less runway then the airliner did..

It was a cool morning so I needed about 100 feet or so..,, I establish a positive rate of climb and about 100AGL I give her total control... Flight lasted about 45 minutes, she flew the entire time till about 50 AGL on final... Learned about the PAPI's...

On the taxi in I called ground and asked for a tower tour for her.. They said "heck ya, come on over"... This gal is now about to wet her pants with excitement.... Spent an hour up in the cab and she ate up every second... Drove back to the hangar and put the plane away and I say... Call me if ya want to fly again..

Monday morning at 7 AM my cell phone rings... Guess who..:yesnod:

She has called several times since and now she brings her best friend, who is even cuter then her......

Geez... Why can't I be 25 again..:rolleyes:....:D
 
She has called several times since and now she brings her best friend, who is even cuter then her......

Geez... Why can't I be 25 again..:rolleyes:....:D

I'm a little over 25 twice and there are two of them...should I come by and help out? :D
 
Seems I need to move.

I only fly livestock round these parts.
 
My best is still an angel-flight gone wrong.. I had an amusing write-up on BT a few years ago, wish I had saved it.



...



I'm gonna stick with cancer patients from now on.



Damn. :doh:


Dude has a pretty good life, sounds like. Joke with everyone, laugh a lot, jerk off whenever he feels like it, take a nap afterward while someone flies him around. Got a nice backpack full of clothes so he can clean up whenever he's done.

LOL!

I'm sure he had other maladies if you were flying him, but I think I'm jealous of the rest of his rock and roll lifestyle. Hahahaha.
 
Not a good day back then for rides, but I was younger, and not as caring as I am now. Now, I always have barf bags.

I try to grab a bag when I fly commercially on interesting airlines so my flight bag currently has a few from Icelandair that I put in the passenger side pocket when I take people up.
 
Absolutely wouldn't bother me at all to take someone flying I just met. Hell, I do it all the time, it's called a discovery flight.
 
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