Toeing the line: How close to the FRZ have you flown?

Wesley Merrick

Wesley Merrick

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Jun 16, 2014
Messages
3
Display Name
Display name:
Wes
First of all a hello everyone: I'm new to the forums and joined mainly to ask questions such as this one and get other perspectives on aviation, cool stories and what not. I'm a college student with my PPL for helicopters (no fixed-wing ratings for me!) just trying to build a little time and expand my flying repertoire while I'm in school.

I have a friend who's been wanting to do a flight over his house for some time now, and I've finally planned it for this coming Sunday. The catch is he lives on the north-western edge of Rockville, MD and his house is somewhere between 0.6 and 0.8nm from the border of the FRZ. I trained for my license in and around the SFRA and am perfectly comfortable/familiar with flying in it and avoiding bravo airspace, etc. but have never been quite so close to the FRZ.

Being a helicopter I would like to think I can avoid getting much closer half a nautical mile, but I wanted to ask around and see if any of you have been that close to the boundary and if so, have you had to do anything in addition to normal SFRA procedures?
 
Tell the controller exactly what you're doing where you plan to do it; use radials and distance in reference to the DCA VOR. Advise when you're on point and confirm you're clear of the FRZ. The important thing is that ATC knows how close you're coming to the FRZ, so that they can sooth the guys in the really really dark room underground who will start to get nervous when they see an un-vetted aircraft getting close to the FRZ.

Oh and for the record, I'm based on the FRZ so you could say I go all the way.
 
Does his path into or out of the FRZ have to process through an "approach gate" and is that house near one? The devil is in the details...
 
Doggtyred said:
Does his path into or out of the FRZ have to process through an "approach gate" and is that house near one? The devil is in the details...
Click to expand...

Sounds like you might be close to the Leesburg approach gate,if so no big deal.
 
Everytime I fly as my airport is in it.

The FRZ requires a pin number (a total pain to get) and an active flight plan to be in. If you get clearance into the SFRA, just stay clear of the FRZ and you'll theoretically be ok.

The FRZ will not show up on a GPS moving map though, only the Bravo bands and they aren't uniform with the FRZ band. So you better know exactly where it is. I'd study a terminal map and have roads and landmarks that keep me well clear.

.8NM isn't very much room for error but you'll be low and slow so it's doable. The truth is, ATC will probably warn you if you get that close and appear to be going in.
 
Last edited:
Brad Z said:
Tell the controller exactly what you're doing where you plan to do it; use radials and distance in reference to the DCA VOR.
Click to expand...

This sounds like a good way of being precise with Potomac. I hadn't though to use radials from the DCA VOR since I'm not instrument rated nor does the helicopter I will be flying have the instruments needed for radio navigation, so I'll have to figure out the radials ahead of time.

Kiddo's Driver said:
IMHO, it was not that big of a deal to get.
Click to expand...

I should have mentioned in my original post that I will be flying VFR if we do go on Sunday and if memory serves the only way to be cleared VFR in the FRZ is to get a special one-time waver from TSA which sounds like something of a big deal, not to mention I might be too close to the date of flight to request one.

Bonchie said:
The FRZ will not show up on a GPS moving map though, only the Bravo bands and they aren't uniform with the FRZ band. So you better know exactly where it is. I'd study a terminal map and have roads and landmarks that keep me well clear.
Click to expand...

I have a Garmin Aera 550 which I just checked and it does display the FRZ boundary on the map so I'm counting on that as far as navigation goes on my end, but I will definitely double-check with Potomac as to my distance from the boundary on their systems.

If anyone has flown VFR in the FRZ and could describe the process of getting cleared/vetted for that I might look into it just to be safe.

Thanks for all the help!
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
Do the paperwork and go all the way! It was not that big of a deal.
Click to expand...

Not so fast...

Wesley Merrick said:
I should have mentioned in my original post that I will be flying VFR if we do go on Sunday and if memory serves the only way to be cleared VFR in the FRZ is to get a special one-time waver from TSA which sounds like something of a big deal, not to mention I might be too close to the date of flight to request one.
Click to expand...

If you were flying inside the FRZ, and doing anything other than flying to and from CGS, W32, or VKX, (i.e. loitering for a photo flight) you would need a waiver. First you would need to be vetted to fly into the FRZ (the websites of each of the three airports above describe the process). Then you would need to get the waiver. Waivers are handled at https://waivers.faa.gov/ but you may want to contact the NCRCC (866-598-9525) for specifics on getting that waiver. In some cases, depending on how close you plan to fly to down town, you will need a law enforcement officer on board.

Wesley Merrick said:
If anyone has flown VFR in the FRZ and could describe the process of getting cleared/vetted for that I might look into it just to be safe.

Thanks for all the help!
Click to expand...

The process is not too bad. See the airport websites for details. Basically you need to be 1) fingerprinted, 2) vetted at either the Baltimore (CGS) or Washington (W32, VKX) FSDO, and 3) receive a training briefing. It's a one time only deal, so if you're in the area, it's not a bad idea.
 
I was based at VKX on 9/11 so I was in the first group cleared to fly in the FRZ. Essentially, you file a special flight plan with FSS giving a password that has to match your identity. When you do this FSS alerts the appropriate people so you don't get chased down.

Inbound, things are relatively straight forward just like entering the SFRA.
Outbound, you need to call the tracon on the phone before you depart.

There are additional security rules that apply to those coming and going on the ground side of the airport.

I'm no longer based there, before the FRZ procedures were even established, my airplane had an engine failure (while temporarily based at OKV). By the time I had got it back from the eventual restoration I had a hangar at CJR. I've used my access only a couple of times to get my BFR in a rental while I was waiting on my plane.
 
Kiddo's Driver said:
IMHO, it was not that big of a deal to get.
Click to expand...

I found having to go to three different agencies all at different corners of the area, having to fax a half dozen different things to different people, and waiting 4 weeks for it to come through pretty much a pain.

It used to all be done at the airfield. No longer.
 
Last edited:
Bonchie said:
I found having to go to three different agencies all at different corners of the area, having to fax a half dozen different things to different people, and waiting 4 weeks for it to come through pretty much a pain.

It used to all be done at the airfield. No longer.
Click to expand...

It used to not be necessary, up until 9/10/2001. When was it all done at the airfield? The process has gotten much better since I did it back in 2005.
 
The smart way to do this is to call Potomac on the phone and tell them what you intend to do ahead of time. Then when you depart, talk them through it and be clear about exactly where you intend to go. As you get close to the FRZ folks are likely to get real antsy if you're making an unscheduled detour on what they thought was a normal SFRA flight.

Getting FRZ clearance won't help since it is only for direct egress/ingress and they'll never approve you to loiter or circle without a prior waiver (and I doubt that's a simple process).

To answer the question in your subject line, the closest I've ever gotten was flying the VPOOP-VPONX route between DCA Bravo and BWI Bravo. That gets you within a mile or so of the FRZ if you want to fly it under the 2500' ceiling. Potomac is used to VFR traffic taking that route so it's no biggie, but I'd hate to circle a house in that area because the minute you turned towards DC I'd expect a call from "US Air Force transmitting on guard to the aircraft squawking XXXX..."
 
Last edited:
I'm a transient pilot from the other side of the country. I did the mandatory SFRA training but elected to stay outside of the FRZ. I flew in VFR to KHWY while talking to no-one besides the CTAF. Tied down for a couple of days and got picked up by family.

1779116_803751089638857_295250317_n.jpg
 
MSPAviator said:
I'm a transient pilot from the other side of the country. I did the mandatory SFRA training but elected to stay outside of the FRZ. I flew in VFR to KHWY while talking to no-one besides the CTAF. Tied down for a couple of days and got picked up by family.
Click to expand...

Let's make it clear to other posters not familiar with the area that KHWY is neither in the FRZ nor the SFRA.
 
dukeblue219 said:
The smart way to do this is to call Potomac on the phone and tell them what you intend to do ahead of time. Then when you depart, talk them through it and be clear about exactly where you intend to go. As you get close to the FRZ folks are likely to get real antsy if you're making an unscheduled detour on what they thought was a normal SFRA flight.
Click to expand...
Concur with Ted. And be ready to turn away at the first hint from the controller that you are too close to he boundary -- there is no such thing as forgiveness for a FRZ incursion as detected by the military air defense radars.
 
Ron Levy said:
Concur with Ted. And be ready to turn away at the first hint from the controller that you are too close to he boundary -- there is no such thing as forgiveness for a FRZ incursion as detected by the military air defense radars.
Click to expand...
That's probably worth repeating; There's no forgiveness for a FRZ or SFRA violation of any kind. You should fly all procedures and obey all restrictions absolutely.

Talking to them should ease everyone's mind but don't think for a second that since you were talking to them any allowances will be made.

There seems to have been a consistent zero tolerance policy since the beginning. Consistency is a good thing I guess.

I've been experienced.
 
dukeblue219 said:
The smart way to do this is to call Potomac on the phone and tell them what you intend to do ahead of time. Then when you depart, talk them through it and be clear about exactly where you intend to go. As you get close to the FRZ folks are likely to get real antsy if you're making an unscheduled detour on what they thought was a normal SFRA flight.
Click to expand...

That does sound smart, I'll definitely do that if we do wind up flying that route. I'll have to let my friend know we might not be able to get too close to his house depending on how close Potomac/USAF will let us get.
 
I went to the trouble of getting FRZ access & password, but never used it. Found a hangar at HEF instead. Just enough extra hassle to fly in there, with traffic HEF is about the same time to get there on the ground, leaves me with no compelling need to go there. So I don't.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top