Tips for first time flying to Oshkosh

Hocky

Hocky

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Hocky
Ok so I spoke with my CFI last night about going to Oshkosh and he encouraged me to go saying that it is not as big a deal as some people make it out to be, he just recommended I take someone to help look out for traffic. I also asked him about the whole spot landing thing and he said most people just "drag it in", sort of aim for the threshold then fly low then plop down on the dot they tell you to land on.

Any other tips? I've been reading the NOTAM and it looks fairly straightforward.
 
Memorize the NOTAM, practice slow flight a lot, head on a swivel and bring a spotter, you should be fine.

Oh, have it discussed and agreed in advance how you and Spotter will communicate what he/she sees; pointing and grunting do not work.

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Edit: There's a great Fisk Arrival video posted on Youtube by Kent Shook, with audio; I'll see if I can find it. Very useful.

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Second Edit:

Here it is; and I should have remembered, it was taken by Troy W ("Tango Whiskey"), with Kent flying, so it's doubly good.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29817&highlight=fisk+arrival

Say a word of remembrance for the 182 - she was a fine steed, but got flipped and killed not long ago. :(
 
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Not so much slow flight, but if you can't maintain a constant 90 knots and 1000 AGL altitude, you're going to be problematic in the RIPON transition. Then practice setting down at various places (on the numbers, 2000' down, etc...) on a long runway and you'll have the skills you need.
 
I did this with a friend 20 years ago as a new private pilot. I'm not sure what's changed since then, but we intentionally arrived late in the week to avoid most of the traffic and it was fine.

We didn't have the resources that are available now. I'd definitely watch (and listen!) to as many videos as possible so you can learn what you'll be expected to do.

This is one of those things that you'll be glad you did. I don't mean the visit to OSH (though that's really cool). I mean, flying into OSH. It seems scary, but it's doable and once you've done it, you get to say you did it. :)
 
Get there early. Plan on crossing Ripon at 7:45 am.

READ AND UNDERSTAND THE NOTAM.
 
Everything everyone else has been saying....and this:

If at any time up to the time you reach the point 15 nm from RIPON (when you start monitoring FISK Approach. In fact you should have that dialed in and listening as early as possible as well as getting the ATIS) you are NOT comfortable with the flight and procedures, leave and land at Appleton.

Caveat: I've done OSH twice. I land & park at Appleton the rest of the time. No curfew so if I'm late, no problem.
 
murphey said:
Everything everyone else has been saying....and this:

If at any time up to the time you reach the point 15 nm from RIPON (when you start monitoring FISK Approach. In fact you should have that dialed in and listening as early as possible as well as getting the ATIS) you are NOT comfortable with the flight and procedures, leave and land at Appleton.

Caveat: I've done OSH twice. I land & park at Appleton the rest of the time. No curfew so if I'm late, no problem.
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If you monitor 122.75 (air to air channel) pilots ahead of you will be reporting which procedures are in use. You can usually know which procedures are in use a couple of hundred miles away from Ripon. ;)
 
Get there early,weather is usually calmer in the morning. Have the notams down,should be easier than you think.
 
I have been flying into Oshkosh for twenty years. Usually my first arrival is before the NOTAM is in effect but I tend to come and go at least a dozen times during the show (heading out to Shawano, giving rides, going out for hot showers and fuel, etc...). The Ripon transition isn't that bad these days as long as you follow the instructions.

Read Notam.
Get ATIS.
Tune the Fisk Frequency.
Slow down to 90 knots and 1000 AGL and get in line at Ripon. At some times of day you won't see anybody, sometimes you'll see someone, get behind him and follow at a safe distance.

When they call you out at FISK and ask you to rock your wings do so. Don't transmit unless they specifically ask you a question.

You'll either be given a turn due east at Fisk which will bring you in on a base leg for 36 L/R or you'll continue up the tracks to the departure end of 27 where you'll turn downind on the far side of the runway (right traffic).

It's all in the NOTAM.

The biggest trouble occurs from people:

1. NOT FLYING 90 KNOTS. It's 90 KNOTS, not 80, not 100. Of course you'll sometimes get an idiot ahead of you who isn't flying the right speed. Either adjust your speed to maintain the distance but do NOT do s-turns or 360's out there on the Ripon transition. If you have to, turn off 90 to the left of the flight path and go back to ripon and start again.

2. Don't do anything unsafe. Yes, they may tell you to hold it to the green dot or whatever, but don't stall or wreck trying to do that. The spot is actually not that critical what they want you to do is land longer as they're going to put someone on the numbers behind you.

If the ATIS isn't on, don't attempt to start up the Ripon transition. You're busting the airspace and there won't be anybody alive at FISK to direct you or in the tower either. This goes for either before 8AM in the morning or right when you think the airshow OUGHT to be over.
 
Know your airplane and what she can do, be able to fly at 90 knots down low, be able to maneuver near MCA, and be ready for a change at low altitude. Last year we had a runway change at 200' AGL. Be alert and ready.

Having an extra set of eyes in the airplane is a great idea. I took up my friend's 11 year old son, and we made it into a game. Whatever works. :)

Above all else, plan your flight and study the NOTAM ahead of time. Knowing what ATC expects you to do makes things run much smoother.
 
Thank you... lots of good information.

So I see that there are two altitudes at Ripon and Fisk. One at 1800 feet and 90 knots, and one at 2300 feet and 135 knots.

What happens after Fisk? Do you have two streams coming into the airport at the two different altitudes or do they all go down to 1800 feet? The arrival diagrams (like on page 8 of the NOTAM) only shows 1800 feet.
 
flyingron said:
Not so much slow flight, but if you can't maintain a constant 90 knots and 1000 AGL altitude, you're going to be problematic in the RIPON transition. Then practice setting down at various places (on the numbers, 2000' down, etc...) on a long runway and you'll have the skills you need.
Click to expand...

For a lot of high performace aircraft holding 90 knots is slow flight. ;)

I know of several fatalities at OSH where pilots spun and died turning too sharp when asked by ATC. My moto is "Don't do any manuvers at Oshkosh you haven't done in the last 30 days." Including slow flight. ATC may ask you do turn sharp or hit a different dot. If you cannot make the maneuver tell them "Unable"
 
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Hocky said:
Thank you... lots of good information.

So I see that there are two altitudes at Ripon and Fisk. One at 1800 feet and 90 knots, and one at 2300 feet and 135 knots.

What happens after Fisk? Do you have two streams coming into the airport at the two different altitudes or do they all go down to 1800 feet? The arrival diagrams (like on page 8 of the NOTAM) only shows 1800 feet.
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Yes, you may have two streams. It is up to ATC to space the planes so the higher ones can descend yo the lower altitude.

90% of RVs enter at 1800' and 90 knots. While they certainly can fly at the higher alt most pilots have made the decision to go the lower route to help out ATC, being able to request a specific runway, etc.
 
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Yep, we wouldn't calling him "One Eyed Jack" if Rousch hadn't done so. However, 90 knots is NOT MCA in many planes. It's the fact that people are idiotically flying at MCA and making sharp turns which is why they screw up.

Keep it in close and turn base now do not imply rolling into 60 degree banks. This is how people screw up.
 
flyingron said:
Yep, we wouldn't calling him "One Eyed Jack" if Rousch hadn't done so. However, 90 knots is NOT MCA in many planes. It's the fact that people are idiotically flying at MCA and making sharp turns which is why they screw up.

Keep it in close and turn base now do not imply rolling into 60 degree banks. This is how people screw up.
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We can certainly agree to on that.

"Hitting the dot" is the same thing. Every year stupid pilot tricks abound at OSH because of "hitting the dot". Make a normal landing in the vacinity of the dot. If you cant do it go around. I've seen guys drop their planes 10' just to say they "Hit the dot!". The point is don't wreck your plane and stop traffic flow. Fly the plane like you know how, and have practiced in the last 30 days.
 
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What type of plane are you flying up there? My wife and I have flown our Bonanza in there for years. No big deal at all. Just keep your head on a swivel and read and understand the NOTAM. It's not a lot different than flying into a busy flight breakfast really. Most anything will fly just fine at 90 kts except for some twins which I've gone in there with too. It does really help to take another set of eyes along. Just relax and fly the plane. You'll love it!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Hocky said:
Ok so I spoke with my CFI last night about going to Oshkosh and he encouraged me to go saying that it is not as big a deal as some people make it out to be, he just recommended I take someone to help look out for traffic. I also asked him about the whole spot landing thing and he said most people just "drag it in", sort of aim for the threshold then fly low then plop down on the dot they tell you to land on.

Any other tips? I've been reading the NOTAM and it looks fairly straightforward.
Click to expand...


Its so straightforward that dozens of people an hour screw up..

MEMORIZE it... read it every day..

Practice your landings.. at a place with a long runway and pick different intersections to land at, from 500 feet straight in (make sure the pattern isn't busy)...

Just because you are landing long doesn't mean you can drag it in, there will be a plane landing under you.

I printed the entire notam on 8 x 11 paper, then made a giant VFR sign on the back cover (like... 300 font bold) and GAP (Gen Aviation parking) for the front cover.. Hole punched and used split rings to bind it. Thats in addition to the printed copies I got from the FAA leading up to the event.

Briefed the approach again the morning before departure. Briefed it again one hour out, and briefed each portion sequentially as we passed checkpoints.. i.e. heading into Ripon... and the assigned landing..

STAY OFF THE RADIO. Listen only. There is no reason to talk.

Stay on speed, on altitude, and over the tracks until they break you out.

The very fact that you are asking for pointers means you will likely not be one of the problem pilots... but the truth is there are people who launch every year who havent read, or dont have, the NOTAM.

Everything works based on EVERYONE staying at their assigned altitudes and in their assigned sectors. I did a powerpoint years ago that showed in different colors how everything fit together to de-conflict the airspace.

Good luck..
 
Thee NOTAM can be had by signing up at EAA for a free hard copy. It is a very handy size for the plane. Bring it with you as it has all of the freqs needed, and departure info.
 
I like the fact that I won't have to talk. My radio skills are just horrible right now. So what is a vigorous wing wag? 45 degrees left and right? Or more?
 
Geico266 said:
I've recommended that also only to have the guys get split up and their pucker factor go through the roof as now they are out of their comfort zone.
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I guess I've been lucky, this will be my 5 th or 6 th year and have always been able to stay in a group of 4.
I agree to be prepared incase you are split up but I think the chances are very low you cant follow at least one plane in.
 
Like everyone said, read the NOTAM. Then go do it and relax. I don't think there's ever been a midair enroute to OSH. Fly the airplane, do all the stuff you usually do, and do whatever they tell you while you're at it. If a bald ugly near-sighted horizontally challenged ham-fisted pilot like me can do it, you can too.
 
It doesn't need to be that violent. 30 degrees is more than sufficient, they just need to know you heard.

I believe there has been exactly one in the 40 some years it's been at Oshkosh. Most accidents are accelerated stalls. I'm going to discount the few that happened during air demonstrations.

Another point, once off the runway, do not let your guard down. The taxiways can be busy too. If all else fails SHUT DOWN. You can restart and if not there isn't any plane we can't push into position. I've worked standing out in the middle of taxiway Papa for the past dozen years or so. Having people run into other airplanes or fixed objects on the ground after braving it all the way to Oshkosh is disappointing.
 
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Hocky said:
I like the fact that I won't have to talk. My radio skills are just horrible right now. So what is a vigorous wing wag? 45 degrees left and right? Or more?
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Not even that much.. just rock the wings.. its noticeable to the guy with binoculars 1000 feet below you and a 1/4 mile away. He will tell you when he sees you rock.
 
I heard that one year a cessna 180 hit another plane on the ground and he was following the directions of a marshaller but the outcome was it was still his fault (the pilot). So can you not trust the marshallers?
 
Hocky said:
I heard that one year a cessna 180 hit another plane on the ground and he was following the directions of a marshaller but the outcome was it was still his fault (the pilot). So can you not trust the marshallers?
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You can never trust anyone else but YOU to fly your plane. (And sometimes even that is a bad idea)
 
Here's my GoPro vid of a Fisk arrival in 2012 in a Lancair 360 with ATC:
 
Hocky said:
Ok so I spoke with my CFI last night about going to Oshkosh and he encouraged me to go saying that it is not as big a deal as some people make it out to be, he just recommended I take someone to help look out for traffic. I also asked him about the whole spot landing thing and he said most people just "drag it in", sort of aim for the threshold then fly low then plop down on the dot they tell you to land on.

Any other tips? I've been reading the NOTAM and it looks fairly straightforward.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's all good. The only pet peeve I have is people who fly minimum speed at the upper altitude. If you are going to do 90kts, stay on the lower deck, there are people coming in in twins who don't like doing less than 120 as well as HP singles who need to be at that speed as well.

Know the NOTAM, have a printed copy, look at the landmarks on Google Earth, it's really pretty simple and a lot of fun, enjoy.
 
And be prepared for planes that are brushing up on vne and can never see 90 unless in a dive.

Yes please be safe.

Geico266 said:
For a lot of high performace aircraft holding 90 knots is slow flight. ;)



I know of several fatalities at OSH where pilots spun and died turning too sharp when asked by ATC. My moto is "Don't do any manuvers at Oshkosh you haven't done in the last 30 days." Including slow flight. ATC may ask you do turn sharp or hit a different dot. If you cannot make the maneuver tell them "Unable"
Click to expand...
 
Hocky said:
I heard that one year a cessna 180 hit another plane on the ground and he was following the directions of a marshaller but the outcome was it was still his fault (the pilot). So can you not trust the marshallers?
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Read up what the definition of Pilot in Command.

The marshallers are a good resource, but it's incumbent on you to not do something stupid. They can't see everything. I has just waved a plane to turn on taxiway papa one year and he slammed the brakes on. I was saying WTF to myself when an airplane LANDED on the taxiway behind my back.
 
Henning said:
Know the NOTAM, have a printed copy, look at the landmarks on Google Earth, it's really pretty simple and a lot of fun, enjoy.
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There are several potential issues with the OSH arrival procedure that a newbie should be aware of.

1) If the airport isn't accepting arrivals (this can happen several times each day for various reasons) the holding procedures are "self serve" and inevitably one or more pilots will bend the rules.

2) Joining the inbound stream can be tricky, especially if the visibility is poor.

3) If the ceiling is low the high speed altitude won't be available and there will be conflicts between fast and slow airplanes.

4) Despite ATC begging pilots to keep the pattern tight, some pilots will fly a bomber pattern and turn final several miles from the runway.

5) IME when the pattern gets extended (see #4) about one of every 10 arrivals will turn inside the plane they're supposed to be following. And if the visibility is poor, the tower won't notice until the two planes trying to occupy the same spot on final get close to touchdown (or later).

6) Given the inability to touch down near the designated large colored dot it appears that many more pilots are colorblind than you'd expect with the rate that this anomaly exists in the general population.

7) A significant number of pilots are rather unwilling to clear the runway off the side, probably because their instructors tended to yell at and/or smack them if they did this at home.

8) The biggest issues become much bigger when the weather is "MVFR". If you're coming in for the first time I strongly recommend avoiding doing so with anything worse than a 2500 ft ceiling and 6 miles vis.
 
Hocky said:
Any other tips? I've been reading the NOTAM and it looks fairly straightforward.
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Arrive as early on Sunday as you can. Less traffic, then you can spend all day watching the planes land.:goofy:
 
I too recommend watching the EAA webinar. There will be a new one up soon for this year, but it will be very similar to the last year's version I am sure. I have flown there three times and did things slightly differently each time. I flew in once and ended up parking the plane at Portage due to a fuel leak. Portage is a great place to stop on the way in to fuel up before making the last run in. The guy who runs the FBO is outstanding and they have brats and other food for pilots coming in for OSH.

I actually flew into OSH the second time. With me as the PIC and another pilot friend in the right seat it was awesome. We both looked for traffic but having that second set of eyes was just great. I was able to concentrate a little more on flying the proper airspeed and altitude. The lesson learned this time was reiterated in the EAA video, and is important. Don't be afraid to go around. If it doesn't look safe, go around. In my case.. I had a twin who apparently didn't want to pull into the grass. He was sitting on my dot. I got as low as I felt comfortable with and he wasn't moving so I went around. The controllers were outstanding in just working me right back into the landing sequence. on the second approach I landed it dead center on my dot .. much better being lucky than good :) It is a fun challenge.

The third time we actually went into Madison and grabbed a rental car. Madison is a really nice airport to fly in and out of and the FBO folks were great. It was easy getting the rental. We would have gone into OSH again but the ceilings were just not great and we made the call to park and drive.

Have fun and enjoy the flight in. You will not forget the experience.

Carl
 
I flew in there last summer, my first time ever, as a 300 hour VFR PP. It was a piece of cake. I watched every arrival video on the web I could find, which was immensely helpful.

I arrived over RIPON around 8 a.m. on the first Monday. There were a couple guys in front of me, one behind. Not the free-for-all I was prepared to encounter. The landmarks were not at all difficult to spot. Beware that if you go early in the day, apparently low ceilings are not that uncommon in the area that time of year, at least that's what a number of old-timers told me. Indeed, ceilings were pretty marginal when I arrived, although visibility was great.

As everyone else said, know your airplane, practice slow flight and spot landings ahead of time, keep your eyes outside, don't make any radical control inputs and you'll be fine. And make sure the controller is talking to you. There are lots of red and white Cessnas.
 
gismo said:
6) Given the inability to touch down near the designated large colored dot it appears that many more pilots are colorblind than you'd expect with the rate that this anomaly exists in the general population.
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Not helping that the yellow dot on 36 is kind of greenish in appearance. This led to some jokes between the tower and incoming traffic calling it the "chartreuse dot".
 
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