General Avation dead? I say NO!

FloridaPilot

FloridaPilot

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I never attended Sun and Fun and I always wanted to but something always comes up around that time every year so I cancel. This year I was determined even if it was for one day, (Sunday, when everyone is packing to leave but that didn't stop me) I was in Asia for two weeks, got home Sunday morning, (14 Hr flight) so I slept for a few hours and drove to Lakeland, (1 Hr drive with the misses) Long story short I was excited...like a kid and I met quite a few people my age just as excited about flying too. I was told that Sun and Fun had the best turnout in a long time possibly ever:

http://generalaviationnews.com/2014/04/10/banner-year-for-sun-n-fun/

Next year, I'm going to try and go the entire weekend and Then Osh. With Mooney's starting production and 11,000 Airplane transactions at Sun and fun interest in GA is happening again and I'm happy to see it come.


Blue Skies everyone!
 
I challenge anyone to go anywhere else in the world and report back that you have found ANYTHING even remotely as vibrant as General Aviation in the U.S.

If it's dead it sure hasn't stopped kickin' yet.
 
GA is not going down without a fight. Had a great time at sun n fun this year.
 
The thing that helps GA is not that a lot of people are into it, but more the fact that the people that are, are huge proponents of it. I went to a party in my neighborhood a few weeks ago and I found out over the course of the night that a couple of the other guys there were pilots..we must have spent two hours solely talking about airplanes and flying. GA is like that, for the relative few who take part in it, it almost seems to define them as people.
 
I won't declare it dead, but in parts of the country that were dependent on manufacturing it is not in good health. Many owners had small shops that supplied the auto industry, and when the recession hit they were forced against the wall. Planes were one of the first things to go.

I'm certain that many of those owners will return to aviation when (if) the economy improves.
 
We cut everything out but the necessities. I will let you know after our OBX trip.
 
What was the age group of all those raging at sun n fun? The golf industry is scared all their customers are dying and there are no younger ones lining up. Maybe golf courses will get turned back into airports...
There is a level of economic cynicism among the under 50 crowd, even the ones doing well, that I suspect will keep many of the classic expensive past times from flourishing.
 
It's not dying, but with prices for aircraft, and prices for equipment so astronomically high it isn't growing as healthy as it could.
 
I suspect it will get a serious blow around 2019 or 2020 but for now it looks healthy.
 
The only airport I have seen outside the USA where GA seems to be thriving is at Maun, Botswana. Lots and lots of single-engine airplanes operating there.
 
cgrab said:
I suspect it will get a serious blow around 2019 or 2020 but for now it looks healthy.
Click to expand...

Wonder if ads-b will drive an ultralight resurgence. Pilots giving up on traveling possibilities and just getting something cheap to get air with. Obviously location dependant.
 
Compared to the 70's and 80's, yes it's dead. Too many jobs have gone overseas that paid for a new aircraft. It's a whimper compared to 25 years ago, plus the airplanes are old as well and new ones, the few there are , are way beyond the means of most. Not to mention insurance, GAS COST which is absurd, insurance, on and on. People who make beds in motels or run leaf blowers don't buy many airplanes but the millwright at Beth. Steel did, as did the foreman at the G.M truck div.
 
Come to Texas. It is alive and well here.
Our GA airports are saturated. Waiting list for hangar space is never ending and young (age 25-35 ish) students are buzzing around like mosquitos.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I never attended Sun and Fun and I always wanted to but something always comes up around that time every year so I cancel. This year I was determined even if it was for one day, (Sunday, when everyone is packing to leave but that didn't stop me) I was in Asia for two weeks, got home Sunday morning, (14 Hr flight) so I slept for a few hours and drove to Lakeland, (1 Hr drive with the misses) Long story short I was excited...like a kid and I met quite a few people my age just as excited about flying too. I was told that Sun and Fun had the best turnout in a long time possibly ever:

http://generalaviationnews.com/2014/04/10/banner-year-for-sun-n-fun/

Next year, I'm going to try and go the entire weekend and Then Osh. With Mooney's starting production and 11,000 Airplane transactions at Sun and fun interest in GA is happening again and I'm happy to see it come.


Blue Skies everyone!
Click to expand...

And what percentage of the attendees did you see with grey hair?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Come to Texas. It is alive and well here.
Our GA airports are saturated. Waiting list for hangar space is never ending and young (age 25-35 ish) students are buzzing around like mosquitos.
Click to expand...

I think I read somewhere that in TX, avg air traffic counts were down 30% since 2008. When an airport starts with 100,000/yr and goes to 70,000/yr though...Dang that is still a bunch of planes. I think you guys have 700+ RV's.

In my part of the country it has been dead for a long time. It is just worse than bad. I might see 15 planes in for lunch on the weekend. Any other weekday, just a few each day.
 
It may not be dead. But it's struggling to survive. At least at my house it is.
I'd planned to buy a block of time, and fly the cherokee out to see Dad this month.
But Since I had to do without work for two months, I had to use that money to keep my house.
As luck would have it, I landed a job washin' boats at the local marina. Which might pay a couple of bills untill construction picks back up.
Actually, @$18/foot. it's not too bad. But won't last long at all.
 
Challenged said:
The thing that helps GA is not that a lot of people are into it, but more the fact that the people that are, are huge proponents of it. I went to a party in my neighborhood a few weeks ago and I found out over the course of the night that a couple of the other guys there were pilots..we must have spent two hours solely talking about airplanes and flying. GA is like that, for the relative few who take part in it, it almost seems to define them as people.
Click to expand...


I talk about flying to all of my non flying friends and they think I'm crazy!(That is not a first) "Did you see the airplane accident in the news?" I hear quite often or I'm afraid of flying. Little do they know it's not flying that they are scared of it's actually the fear of overcoming their fear that they are afraid of!
 
ClimbnSink said:
What was the age group of all those raging at sun n fun? The golf industry is scared all their customers are dying and there are no younger ones lining up. Maybe golf courses will get turned back into airports...
There is a level of economic cynicism among the under 50 crowd, even the ones doing well, that I suspect will keep many of the classic expensive past times from flourishing.
Click to expand...


From my observation it was all ages, I'm a 40 something guy and I met quite a few the same age and younger!
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Compared to the 70's and 80's, yes it's dead. Too many jobs have gone overseas that paid for a new aircraft. It's a whimper compared to 25 years ago, plus the airplanes are old as well and new ones, the few there are , are way beyond the means of most. Not to mention insurance, GAS COST which is absurd, insurance, on and on. People who make beds in motels or run leaf blowers don't buy many airplanes but the millwright at Beth. Steel did, as did the foreman at the G.M truck div.
Click to expand...

Not many industries in my opinion didn't go overseas with the explosion of the internet. Many old airplanes out there but those airplanes are cheap to buy!
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Come to Texas. It is alive and well here.
Our GA airports are saturated. Waiting list for hangar space is never ending and young (age 25-35 ish) students are buzzing around like mosquitos.
Click to expand...

That is good to hear. Around the area in Florida Hangar space is hard to come by as well, (I wanted to price out owning a plane) At Clearwater airpark they will put you on a waiting list for around 5 years.
 
RV10flyer said:
I think I read somewhere that in TX, avg air traffic counts were down 30% since 2008. When an airport starts with 100,000/yr and goes to 70,000/yr though...Dang that is still a bunch of planes. I think you guys have 700+ RV's.

In my part of the country it has been dead for a long time. It is just worse than bad. I might see 15 planes in for lunch on the weekend. Any other weekday, just a few each day.
Click to expand...

What part of the country are you from?
 
bluerooster said:
It may not be dead. But it's struggling to survive. At least at my house it is.
I'd planned to buy a block of time, and fly the cherokee out to see Dad this month.
But Since I had to do without work for two months, I had to use that money to keep my house.
As luck would have it, I landed a job washin' boats at the local marina. Which might pay a couple of bills untill construction picks back up.
Actually, @$18/foot. it's not too bad. But won't last long at all.
Click to expand...

That is tough and pretty much the same situation for a lot of people here in Florida, Good luck to you, I hope it all works out!
 
FloridaPilot said:
Not many industries in my opinion didn't go overseas with the explosion of the internet. Many old airplanes out there but those airplanes are cheap to buy!
Click to expand...

Most of the airplanes I see are old for sure! And most sit in their hangars and fly rarely. Some sit outside mouldering. Some of the owners have taken up model airplanes and fly them instead. The only thing that happens on weekends are a few glider flights, not many, and one or two ancient cessnas hauling jumpers. The inexpensive ones are old, have sat outside, need major work. Not cheap to keep and fly. Well paying jobs are rare compared to the 70s early 80s. It's been downhill since then.
 
FloridaPilot said:
What part of the country are you from?
Click to expand...

NE KY/SE OH. No problem finding a hangar here for $150-$200/mo. Finding enough work to raise a family, buy or build a plane, insure it and fuel it is a different story.
 
Clip4 said:
And what percentage of the attendees did you see with grey hair?
Click to expand...

Hair really is worth noticing.

When I go to a safety seminar, almost every seat is filled by a white male with either gray hair, white hair, or no hair.

Is that just because safety seminars selectively attract that demographic? Or is it because young new pilots are too few to replace those who are old, and not much progress is being made in attracting women and minorities?
 
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Dead or not, I'm alive and all in.

I'm sitting in a SWA 737 @ 37,000 with my elderly Mother and Aunt after they "ran out of steam" in Vegas. We'll be landing in Pgh in an 1.5 hours. After I tuck them in and catch some sleep, I'll return the rental car and jump back in my RV10 at KPIT. Then fly back home to Durham NC where I'll generate some financial reports for the annual home owners association meeting on Sunday at the airport office. However, I won't stay for the meeting... My wife is up in the mountains with a house full of friends and I'm flying the 10 up to join them. Can't wait for the flying, friends, or the mountains.

Live, dead, what me worry... Just do it!
 
Jimmy cooper said:
Well paying jobs are rare compared to the 70s early 80s. It's been downhill since then.
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I'm not sure. Lots of people I know in Silicon Valley are raking in big bucks. (And they are employees, not company founders).

This is just an off the cuff estimate, but I'd guess that > 50% of my High School graduating class is making at least six figures. Granted this doesn't represent the population as a whole, but just people I know/associate with. It was one of those schools for "advanced" students.
 
Bill Watson said:
Dead or not, I'm alive and all in.

I'm sitting in a SWA 737 @ 37,000 with my elderly Mother and Aunt after they "ran out of steam" in Vegas. We'll be landing in Pgh in an 1.5 hours. After I tuck them in and catch some sleep, I'll return the rental car and jump back in my RV10 at KPIT. Then fly back home to Durham NC where I'll generate some financial reports for the annual home owners association meeting on Sunday at the airport office. However, I won't stay for the meeting... My wife is up in the mountains with a house full of friends and I'm flying the 10 up to join them. Can't wait for the flying, friends, or the mountains.

Live, dead, what me worry... Just do it!
Click to expand...

BTW, this was my first airline flight in quite a few years. SWA is pretty good, and hey, you can play with your electronics thru TO an landing, and hey, they have WIFI (for 8 bucks), and hey, they still serve drinks. Can't do drinks piloting the '10.
 
NoHeat said:
Hair really is worth noticing.

When I go to a safety seminar, almost every seat is filled by a white male with either gray hair, white hair, or no hair.

Is that just because safety seminars selectively attract that demographic? Or is it because young new pilots are too few to replace those who are old, and not much progress is being made in attracting women and minorities?
Click to expand...

Maybe it's because some pilots are too overconfident to actually go to a safety seminar, similar to a defensive driving course. Lots of different types of people at Sun and Fun.
 
Bill Watson said:
Dead or not, I'm alive and all in.

I'm sitting in a SWA 737 @ 37,000 with my elderly Mother and Aunt after they "ran out of steam" in Vegas. We'll be landing in Pgh in an 1.5 hours. After I tuck them in and catch some sleep, I'll return the rental car and jump back in my RV10 at KPIT. Then fly back home to Durham NC where I'll generate some financial reports for the annual home owners association meeting on Sunday at the airport office. However, I won't stay for the meeting... My wife is up in the mountains with a house full of friends and I'm flying the 10 up to join them. Can't wait for the flying, friends, or the mountains.

Live, dead, what me worry... Just do it!
Click to expand...


That is awesome, safe flying to you!
 
FloridaPilot said:
Maybe it's because some pilots are too overconfident to actually go to a safety seminar, similar to a defensive driving course. Lots of different types of people at Sun and Fun.
Click to expand...
People are all the same. Last safety seminar I went to on the way out I overheard the woman in front of me ripping on the dead pilots. The theme of the seminar was how these dead pilots were you and me, not drunken, reckless retards. Humans make me laugh.
 
NoHeat said:
When I go to a safety seminar, almost every seat is filled by a white male with either gray hair, white hair, or no hair.

Is that just because safety seminars selectively attract that demographic?
Click to expand...
That may be true because it was like that 30 years ago. Or maybe everyone seemed old back then because I was much younger, but have caught up now. :redface:
 
Everskyward said:
That may be true because it was like that 30 years ago. Or maybe everyone seemed old back then because I was much younger, but have caught up now. :redface:
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That's why I stopped going.... Didn't want to mess up the demographic.
 
GA is changing. At our airport, I see a lot of bizjet traffic, air ambulance, business people and professionals using their airplanes for business purposes, etc. Not a lot of people hanging around on weekends flying around the patch. Maybe just different, not dead.
 
somorris said:
GA is changing. At our airport, I see a lot of bizjet traffic, air ambulance, business people and professionals using their airplanes for business purposes, etc. Not a lot of people hanging around on weekends flying around the patch. Maybe just different, not dead.
Click to expand...

What better way to get around? That beats being stuck at security in a major airport! If I could fly private every time I would.
 
Bill Watson said:
BTW, this was my first airline flight in quite a few years. SWA is pretty good, and hey, you can play with your electronics thru TO an landing, and hey, they have WIFI (for 8 bucks), and hey, they still serve drinks. Can't do drinks piloting the '10.
Click to expand...

You must have been in first class. The last SWA 737 I was in was a sardine can personified. :eek:
 
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