Firemen Refuse To Render Aid

1. Proby will be let go, and he will appeal and get another chance.

2. LT will be allowed to retire at the next higher rank.

3. Everyone else in the engine co will do a Sgt Shultz; "I see nut-tink!!!"

4. Even more regulations will be added to the book; 'if there is a dying man, or you have reason to possibly suspect there is a dying man across the street, you will render aid, or call 911 if unable'.
 
docmirror said:
1. Proby will be let go, and he will appeal and get another chance.



2. LT will be allowed to retire at the next higher rank.



3. Everyone else in the engine co will do a Sgt Shultz; "I see nut-tink!!!"



4. Even more regulations will be added to the book; 'if there is a dying man, or you have reason to possibly suspect there is a dying man across the street, you will render aid, or call 911 if unable'.
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+ 2....
 
docmirror said:
1. Proby will be let go, and he will appeal and get another chance.



2. LT will be allowed to retire at the next higher rank.



3. Everyone else in the engine co will do a Sgt Shultz; "I see nut-tink!!!"



4. Even more regulations will be added to the book; 'if there is a dying man, or you have reason to possibly suspect there is a dying man across the street, you will render aid, or call 911 if unable'.
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Pretty much. I doubt the probie will get a second chance.
 
Geico266 said:
All members of that station who knew this person needed aid and did nothing should be fired and jailed. Their job is to rescue and render aid. That is what they are paid to do. They refused to help.
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The USSC has determined that government employees are not required to do anything. A cop in Arizona followed a drunk driver down the highway and watched him head-on another car, killing two women. The Supremes said that there is "no duty to act" and dismissed the lawsuit.

This is why I carry a pistol and have fire extinguishers in all of my vehicles.
 
PaulS said:
That was a hall of fame caliber piece of trolling, well done sir.
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I never troll.

My point was why'd they go to the fire department instead of calling paramedics? I see from the thread they tried and hit up the fire house as plan B. that makes sense.

I think cops for law breaking, fire department for fires, paramedics for medical emergencies and barbers for haircuts. Obviously if ya can't get one another could maybe help get the ball rolling.

Sorry if anyone got offended.
 
denverpilot said:
I'm sure the Station leadership now know they made a significant hiring error in the moron at the door.
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The station leadership are why the moron STAYED in the door.

It is their responsibility to properly train him, and they failed to do so.

There's a fire station near here, and it's covers a large rural area, including about 20 miles of state highway. It's common to see a car go blasting around the corner and stop there, followed a moment later by a radio call telling dispatch to tone a "still alarm" for the EMTs.
 
Captain said:
I never troll.

My point was why'd they go to the fire department instead of calling paramedics? I see from the thread they tried and hit up the fire house as plan B. that makes sense.

I think cops for law breaking, fire department for fires, paramedics for medical emergencies and barbers for haircuts. Obviously if ya can't get one another could maybe help get the ball rolling.

Sorry if anyone got offended.
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Around this way, they roll a fire truck to 911 calls for ambulances. It does generate some controversy for some as it increases calls for firemen, but having waited over 30 minutes for an ambulance when my dad was dying from a heart attack 40 years ago, I think it a good idea. I would not think twice about knocking on a fire station door for help.

Oh, in my little town, they have defibrillators in the police cars now. Had to call a couple years ago when my mom passed out at thanksgiving, the police were here within 2 or 3 minutes, out of the car and into the living room with the defibrillator in hand. Ended up not being needed but it was nice to know we have that type of response available.
 
jmp470 said:
While the story sucks to read. It's perfectly logical. As the Good Samaritan law has come under fire in the past 30 years and was reduced in many states. Still sucks, that we as a society don't value each other.
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They were not good samaritans.. They were uniformed members of the emergency service of the District Columbia - federal employees who were PAID to render aid when needed. They had a duty to act and failed to do so. That failure to act may not be the sole factor in the man's death, but it would be hard to prove it wasn't related....

This is a TEXTBOOK case of negligence.
 
Doggtyred said:
They were not good samaritans.. They were uniformed members of the emergency service of the District Columbia - federal employees who were PAID to render aid when needed. They had a duty to act and failed to do so. That failure to act may not be the sole factor in the man's death, but it would be hard to prove it wasn't related....



This is a TEXTBOOK case of negligence.
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Someone should sue so the taxpayer being served can pick up the tab for the mistake.

Wait a minute...
 
I drove three blocks to a fire station in 2008 when I had a heart attack. They saved my life. It was the crew of engine #8 in Los Colinas, TX.
 
Doggtyred said:
They were not good samaritans.. They were uniformed members of the emergency service of the District Columbia - federal employees who were PAID to render aid when needed. They had a duty to act and failed to do so. That failure to act may not be the sole factor in the man's death, but it would be hard to prove it wasn't related....

This is a TEXTBOOK case of negligence.
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I hd a charter here grandpa dropped to the deck, we did CPR until the USCG could get him off. ER Doc said it was nice that we did CPR for all that time, but he was dead before he hit the deck. Let the coroner figure out how much guilt goes where.
 
DrMack said:
I drove three blocks to a fire station in 2008 when I had a heart attack. They saved my life. It was the crew of engine #8 in Los Colinas, TX.
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Thankfully you were in Texas and not the nation's capitol.
 
Firemen should be smart enough to recognize danger and a response situation and react appropriately. Its their job, it is what they get paid to do.

The entire fire station and the fire chief should be fired.
 
Captain said:
I never troll.

My point was why'd they go to the fire department instead of calling paramedics? I see from the thread they tried and hit up the fire house as plan B. that makes sense.
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EMTs and/or paramedics are pretty routinely attached to each fire station. That is pretty widely known.
 
Captain said:
I never troll filter.
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<cough> Fixed that for you.

Captain said:
I think cops for law breaking, fire department for fires, paramedics for medical emergencies and barbers for haircuts.
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Many, many districts combine fire and EMT/EMS into one service.

Including the District of Columbia.


http://fems.dc.gov/page/about-fems
femsLogo_0.png


Mission Statement
The mission of the District of Columbia Fire and Emergency Medical Service Department is to preserve life and promote health and safety through excellent pre-hospital treatment and transportation, fire prevention, fire suppression and rescue activities and homeland security awareness.

Vision Statement
The vision of the DC Fire and Emergency Medical Services Department is to be a performance based organization in which a well-trained, multi-disciplined skilled workforce utilizes state-of the art equipment, technology and apparatus to provide the highest quality of Fire and Emergency Medical Services. To our residents and visitors the DC Fire and EMS Department strives for excellence in emergency preparedness, education and response, to enhance our customer focused innovative initiatives as industry leaders, while overcoming expanding risks.
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PPC1052 said:
EMTs and/or paramedics are pretty routinely attached to each fire station. That is pretty widely known.
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In addition to dedicated paramedics, most of the big city FDs require EMT certification for all Firefighters.
 
Henning said:
I hd a charter here grandpa dropped to the deck, we did CPR until the USCG could get him off. ER Doc said it was nice that we did CPR for all that time, but he was dead before he hit the deck. Let the coroner figure out how much guilt goes where.
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Yeah, that's why they've changed the protocol for CPR to include a weak or faint heartbeat to the original criteria of no heartbeat before starting. Need to improve save statistics.....
 
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This really shows what excessive bureaucracy and governmental command structures can do.

Side note: A family member of mine who served in Afghanistan told me that on a number of occasions, they had to hold their position and wait for approval to return fire after being ambushed. Their requests HAVE to go through the chain of command. No if's, and's, or buts...

Shame.
 
david0tey said:
This really shows what excessive bureaucracy and governmental command structures can do.

Side note: A family member of mine who served in Afghanistan told me that on a number of occasions, they had to hold their position and wait for approval to return fire after being ambushed. Their requests HAVE to go through the chain of command. No if's, and's, or buts...

Shame.
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The PERFECT reason why there should be NO rules for warfare.....

Kill them before they kill you using any means needed.....

Geez...:mad2:
 
N801BH said:
The PERFECT reason why there should be NO rules for warfare.....

Kill them before they kill you using any means needed.....

Geez...:mad2:
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Yeah Ben, because that's what I said.
 
My agency has a no assistance policy. If I'm driving down the highway, see an accident with cars on fire and people hurt, I am prohibited (by policy) from stopping and rendering aid. Even though I have emergency lights, have first aid/cpr training, and a fire extinguisher and a big first aid kit, I can get in trouble if I help. That's a policy I will willingly break to help out others. I pay $100 a year for legal assistance for stuff like this, and I will happily call them if my management sends it up for my punishment. It's too bad that it's all about CYA without common sense.
 
JB1842 said:
My agency has a no assistance policy. If I'm driving down the highway, see an accident with cars on fire and people hurt, I am prohibited (by policy) from stopping and rendering aid. Even though I have emergency lights, have first aid/cpr training, and a fire extinguisher and a big first aid kit, I can get in trouble if I help. That's a policy I will willingly break to help out others. I pay $100 a year for legal assistance for stuff like this, and I will happily call them if my management sends it up for my punishment. It's too bad that it's all about CYA without common sense.
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:thumbsup:

Lemme know if you ever need contributions to a legal defense fund if you do this.
 
JB1842 said:
My agency has a no assistance policy. If I'm driving down the highway, see an accident with cars on fire and people hurt, I am prohibited (by policy) from stopping and rendering aid. Even though I have emergency lights, have first aid/cpr training, and a fire extinguisher and a big first aid kit, I can get in trouble if I help. That's a policy I will willingly break to help out others. I pay $100 a year for legal assistance for stuff like this, and I will happily call them if my management sends it up for my punishment. It's too bad that it's all about CYA without common sense.
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What agency?

That sounds like something you'd expect to hear from Walmart.
 
JeffDG said:
:thumbsup:

Lemme know if you ever need contributions to a legal defense fund if you do this.
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I get my money's worth every year, even currently in fact. In our office, we fear management more than we do the bad guys.
 
it is what you get when you have a union contract, a union to protect you, and 'standards' for response with no penalties for not meeting them . . .
 
Henning said:
I hd a charter here grandpa dropped to the deck, we did CPR until the USCG could get him off. ER Doc said it was nice that we did CPR for all that time, but he was dead before he hit the deck. Let the coroner figure out how much guilt goes where.
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Same experience for me with CPR. Dude dropped dead on a racquetball court. His partner ran on to our court screaming that his opponent was down.
We went to work on the guy for ~~20 minutes until EMT's arrived (pre cell phone days and all that).
EMT's put him on a back board with a weird O2 powered CPR machine that pounded his chest and filled his lungs, only to find out it wouldn't fit through the court door (it was only a 3 x 3 opening). Took it all back off and put him in the ambulance. His partner was no where to be found until we went to the locker room. Seems he had a "biological emergency" in his BVD's, and needed to clean up.

We later found out that the guy was a big time realtor in Panama City Beach, FL, where we were playing), and according to the coroner, he probably had suffered a pretty major attack in the previous 48 hours. Bottom line, we swapped spit with a dead guy for 20 minutes. :mad:
 
The fireman was so ignorant he didn't even try to help. Shut the door in the woman's face. Totally uncalled for, but with Marion berry still on the council, the mayor under investigation one probably shouldn't expect much more.
 
Even if the firemen were unable to do anything it can be reassuring and calming to a patient that help has arrived.
 
PaulS said:
Yeah, that's why they've changed the protocol for CPR from no heartbeat to weak or faint heartbeat before starting. Need to improve save statistics.....
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There is no such change in the American Heart Association guidelines for Emergency Cardiac Care. A pulseless person gets CPR unless they are a DNR or OBVIOUSLY dead (rigor, pooling blood, decapitation, massive trauma)

Stating such a fallacy as fact is dangerous.. because other people just.. might... believe you..

Statistics for CPR saves are already dismal, because in most cases the person is dying, not suffering from an easily remedied transient event...There's no need to put lipstick on the pig..
 
Doggtyred said:
There is no such change in the American Heart Association guidelines for Emergency Cardiac Care. A pulseless person gets CPR unless they are a DNR or OBVIOUSLY dead (rigor, pooling blood, decapitation, massive trauma)

Stating such a fallacy as fact is dangerous.. because other people just.. might... believe you..

Statistics for CPR saves are already dismal, because in most cases the person is dying, not suffering from an easily remedied transient event...There's no need to put lipstick on the pig..
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I worded that incorrectly, I should've said they now include weak or faint heartbeat as no heartbeat. That's what I was taught at my cpr certification at the Red Cross. I thought performing it for no heartbeat was obvious, my mistake. I will edit that post.
 
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