Any idiot can fly a plane, but helicopters not so much?

"Has he been checked out in that cockpit?"
"No I don't think so...not at all."

:lol:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Which is kinda funny considering helicopter pilots have to deal with torque and yaw much much more than fixed wing pilots. Conversely I've never seen a helicopter pilot transitioning from a left turning rotor to a right turning rotor have any difficulty knowing which pedal to push for power.
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Poor training I would say. I was taught fixed wing then helo, pedals keep the nose straight. Doesn't matter starch wing, rotarty, clockwise, ccw rotor doesn't matter - push whatever pedal you got to push as much as you got to push it to make it do what you want it to do. Only thing really important to know is what to do if your power pedal hits the stop :goofy:
 
Funny my last landing in the Arrow almost took out a coyote...Peddles are to keep the nose straight and help with an RTT...then again I flew guns my whole career also depending on the power setting which way to break in an AH-1 due to transient torque...most do not know that there as actually an Air to Air Helicopter course in USAREUR in the mid 80's where we practiced maneuvers off limits today in Aircraft much more capable.
 
fiveoboy01 said:
Never attempted to fly a full scale one but I've been heavily involved in R/C for almost 2 decades and helicopters are MUCH harder to learn to fly.
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I've had two helicopter rides (in a pilot seat) in my life. The first one was in the front seat of my brother's AH-1 Cobra, on his last flight in the Army.

The second was fairly recently, my wife had a tax client who was a Robinson dealer. She made a deal where I would fly her to the client's airport in exchange for me getting a helicopter ride.

In both cases I found the helicopters very pleasant to fly in forward flight. In the Cobra I attached this metal arm to my helmet, which enables the gun to point wherever I looked. That really gave me a cool robocop feel.

The R-44 was brand new, there wasn't a single bug or scratch on the plexiglas. It has that cool new helicopter smell! Wearing Bose headsets it as just about as close to flying without machine assistance as I've ever experienced.

The Cobra flew about like a Bonanza, the R-44 was light on the controls, but surprisingly stable in forward flight.

Sadly, as we slowed down it became very clear to me that it is impossible to hover a helicopter.

I'm pretty sure there is some kind of cloaking device that the helo pilots won't admit to that causes onlookers to perceive the helicopter as hovering, even though hovering a helicopter is clearly impossible.
 
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Tried the rotor thing,couldn't afford it. More fun in a fixed wing airplane. Do however speak to rotor pilots occasionally .
 
Pilots who can't/don't fly helicopters are adept at camouflaging their "short"comings and compensating for their inadequacies with oddly large watches, etc.
 
0luke1 said:
Pilots who can't/don't fly helicopters are adept at camouflaging their "short"comings and compensating for their inadequacies with oddly large watches, etc.
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Now that was funny :rofl:
 
The adage that helicopters are "inherently unstable" is beginning to fray a bit. I fly in a new EC155 (as a crewmember, not the pilot) and that thing has got some interesting and useful features. Granted, it's a computer and the ahrs that makes it so but nonetheless quite incredible. It has a feature called "attitude retention" and will keep the helicopter in the exact profile at which time you let go of the cyclic. Without the autopilot engaged, you can pretty much sit in a hover with your feet on the floor and hands off the cyclic and it will hold it. However, it lacks the very light controls normally associated with helicopters becuase of the "follow up trim" that is always engaged.
 
Velocity173 said:
That video never gets old. I thought he was doing great right up until the landing. :D

http://youtu.be/WF11V4hdFIs
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Actually, he almost rolls it just after he added the power. He stubbed the skid and was starting to roll the thing before it came loose. If it had been on something other than a hard surface, that would have probably ended the sequence early with a nice demo of dynamic rollover.

Jay Honeck (are you here Jay) used to have some pretty interesting helo crashes on his old hotel website, one where a helicopter landing on a ship catches one of the safety lines and rolls over.
 
BobThePilot said:
We've all heard of cases where people with no training can successfully fly a plane (perhaps not well, but well enough to get back on the ground without damaging themselves or the plane). Has there been any similar story with helicopters? Does that mean helicopter pilots are more skilled? Smarter?

:yes:

Do you any of you fixed wing pilots feel inferior when in the presence of a helicopter pilot? I am guessing yes even if you don't admit it. I mean, c'mon, they can probably fly your machine even without a rating and you would crash their rig in probably five seconds. If that doesn't summarize the situation, I don't know what else does.

:eek:

How do you as fixed wing pilots deal with this inadequacy?

:confused:
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I dunno about starch wingers, but I slam the collective to the floor and yell "engine failure, engine failure" :yikes: :lol:

seriously though, if this isn't a troll post... the FAR is ambiguous at best. If they are not sloppy or belligerent then we go. For all the paladins who cry foul, just be lucky you aren't a helo tour pilot because if you wouldn't fly someone who had a few drinks you would never fly.
 
jaybee said:
I dunno about starch wingers, but I slam the collective to the floor and yell "engine failure, engine failure" :yikes: :lol:

seriously though, if this isn't a troll post... the FAR is ambiguous at best. If they are not sloppy or belligerent then we go. For all the paladins who cry foul, just be lucky you aren't a helo tour pilot because if you wouldn't fly someone who had a few drinks you would never fly.
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Not a troll post, no more than any other thought provoking question posed to the intelligentsia and in some cases the pseudo-intelligentsia of POA. :lol:

And, yes, you are correct. Just in the last week I took a helo tour in Hawaii... Sat in the left seat up front, inebriated and happy peering at those rudder pedals and wondering if they work the same... I didn't stomp on them though. The fearless helo driver to my right took it all in stride.

Helicopters kick butt. This fixed wing pilot is not ashamed to admit that or to acknowledge that the skill level required is higher than what I (currently) possess. I am seriously considering taking an introductory lesson to see for myself first hand.
 
Yes, at the end of the day I'm not a human breathalyzer - if I can smell alcohol from across the room I'll ask you to come back later.

EDIT - :confused: could of swore I was replying to the unruly passenger topic... :confused: :goofy: lol
 
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jaybee said:
Yes, at the end of the day I'm not a human breathalyzer - if I can smell alcohol from across the room I'll ask you to come back later.

EDIT - :confused: could of swore I was replying to the unruly passenger topic... :confused: :goofy: lol
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I moved your reply here because it seemed more appropriate in this thread.

You're welcome.
 
more appropriate to talk about drunk passengers in the helicopter thread vs the drunk passengers thread ?

whatever, thought I was losing it for a minute....
 
Oddly enough, I have the RW-helo endorsement but can not fly a RC helicopter for $%@#.
 
I find it hilarious when a fixed wing pilot who admits he has no rotor time opines on helicopter flight....... it's like a virgin trying to describe sex. I can't claim any special insight about flying the two types, but I can offer actual experience as I was one who started out in rotors and then transitioned to the fixed wing community.
I do not believe a fixed wing pilot, even after a brief verbal explanation of the control functions of a helicopter, could successfully take off and land. I do believe a rotor pilot, given the same briefing, could successfully take off in a fixed wing machine, and could possibly effect a safe landing given no wind and a long runway. Does that mean helicopter drivers are better pilots? No, it means the machines are different and suited for different missions.

I've flown fixed wing machines in weather no helicopter would survive, and done things in a helicopter that no fixed wing machine could match. Apples and oranges.

What is indisputable is that flying a helicopter is demanding, and totally intolerant of inattention to detail.
 
It seems that flying a personal helicopter would be challenging and great fun, but not very practical. I certainly can't land one at my house, I don't own a ranch, and I know of no "off airport" place that welcomes helicopters.

You'd probably be arrested if you landed one in a shopping mall parking lot, even if there was plenty of room.

So, it seems that I am still limited to taking off and landing at airports. If so, a fixed wing will travel much faster for less money.
 
There is a lot of truth to that. 20 years ago when I the keys to helicopters I would rarely land off airport for practical purposes. One worry is pedestrians and rotor blades, mostly even then it was concerns with legal hassles. If there isn't a town ordinance against helicopters there would be, people know how to compete with swimming pools, you buy a helicopter and you trump all that regular stuff so they gotta outlaw it.
dans2992 said:
It seems that flying a personal helicopter would be challenging and great fun, but not very practical. I certainly can't land one at my house, I don't own a ranch, and I know of no "off airport" place that welcomes helicopters.

You'd probably be arrested if you landed one in a shopping mall parking lot, even if there was plenty of room.

So, it seems that I am still limited to taking off and landing at airports. If so, a fixed wing will travel much faster for less money.
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Another data point. Took a rotor only pilot (piston Enstrom CFI) up in a 185. Flew it (and landed) beautifully, but even gentle negative G's freaked him out. :)
 
jhausch said:
Another data point. Took a rotor only pilot (piston Enstrom CFI) up in a 185. Flew it (and landed) beautifully, but even gentle negative G's freaked him out. :)
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Not sure about the Enstrom rotor but a lot of rotor systems (teetering) are prohibited from 0 G maneuvers. Plenty of helicopters out there that don't have that restriction though. A pilot coming from them would have no problem with a "gentle negative G."
 
One of the best parts of Chickenhawk is when Mason describes his time learning to fly helicopters. If you trained in a 300 it's funny. If you trained in an R22, where the controls are even more touchy, it's hilarious.

My first helo CFI told me he would get some hotshot commercial FW pilots as primary helo students. After their first hour and still nowhere near being able to hold a hover they'd stomp off "this is stupid!", never to return.
 
To clarify. I was referring to 0 Gs since it sounds like jhausch was doing a 0 G pushover where the occupants are floating in their seat. Some aircraft such as the B206 are prohibited from that due to possible mast bumping. An aircraft with a rigid rotor (BO-105) or a fully articulated rotor (AH-64) would be fine with 0 G.
 
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Interesting.

Its a fully articulated system like the 300.

I've done it a bunch of times in a 300 with the guy who taught me how to fly helicopters.

EDIT - like mcfly i should clarify 0 G's and not negative... i don't think negative G's are good in any helicopter except maybe the MH53
 
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jaybee said:
Interesting.

Its a fully articulated system like the 300.

I've done it a bunch of times in a 300 with the guy who taught me how to fly helicopters.

EDIT - like mcfly i should clarify 0 G's and not negative... i don't think negative G's are good in any helicopter except maybe the MH53
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OK, I thought you guys were talking about negative Gs since jhaush mentioned that even gentle negative Gs freaked out the Enstrom CFI.
 
jaybee said:
yes, reading fail on my part, sorry.
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No problem. A lot of what I remember about helicopters is a little sketchy since it was a long time ago but I definitely remembered that!
 
AH-64 is limited to a minimum of +0.2g at sea level down to -0.5g at 20,000 feet MSL (ha!) when at minimum weight and between 85 and 135 knots TAS.

Of course, +0.2g is pretty low and would probably be described by most people as "negative G" simply because most people think anything that makes you light in your seat is negative, when it's really just a bit less than the usual +1g but above 0g.
 
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