Geriatric pilots dangerous?

BobThePilot

BobThePilot

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Bob
This is not going to be a popular topic with many, I know we have a few wrinkled pilots on here. Please don't take offense, I respect your knowledge and experience, but at what point should some old pilots stop flying?

The other day I was waiting for a friend at the Vero Beach airport on one of those benches near the restaurant on the field there. This old hunched over guy came out and made his slow painful way over to a Mooney parked outside the gate. I thought for sure he was just going over to look at it or something, but no he gets into the plane in a process that was slow and painful to watch and almost comical. No preflight of course (in his condition I wouldn't want to either), starts right on up and off he went. I've seen old men with walkers move faster than he did out to his plane!

I cannot believe that he is a safe pilot. There is just no way. We all know what appalling drivers most old people make. Surely there should be an age limit to having a valid medical? The requirements are obviously too lax.
 
BobThePilot said:
The requirements are obviously too lax.
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They are,, the FAA shouldn't issue a PPL to anyone under the age of 30. they are too childly to make good decisions.

So they make posts threads this.
 
its sad you think the old are incapable,remember a dr. issued his medical. his co ordination may be better than yours behind the yoke,you where not in the airplane. I hope as you get older you get wiser.
 
I'm thinking we've seen BobThePilot before, under a different name.
 
As long as they aren't fat it is cool. Seriously my opinion and this will offend as well, the earlier in life you started flying the longer you can safely fly. Not suggesting that be codified into a rule, and we already have a system for grounding these guys: medicals and flight reviews. Both can be gamed but so could any new rule. I'd rather stop old folks from driving and let them fly, consider reflex time needed and decisions per second and driving is much worse for the feeble.
 
Some are and some aren't. Pilot age is usually on the NTSB reports isn't it? Do a little research and make your case.

Prove the age at which pilots become dangerous and you can push for the new regulation.
 
Anyone who has had the, "no you can't drive anymore" conversation with a parent knows that there is that point...
 
Everskyward said:
Anyone who has had the, "no you can't drive anymore" conversation with a parent knows that there is that point...
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True, but my mom can't fly, either. ;)
 
ebetancourt said:
Some are and some aren't. Pilot age is usually on the NTSB reports isn't it? Do a little research and make your case.

Prove the age at which pilots become dangerous and you can push for the new regulation.
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But if you don't know the corresponding curve of the total pilot population, you can't control for exposure.
 
I am 43 and have never thought that way about our elders. What a shame hearing this from a fellow pilot. You could have offered your assistance and respect. He could have been one our war veteran grandfathers. I have seen young men make fools of themselves in planes and on public forums.
 
Tom-D said:
They are,, the FAA shouldn't issue a PPL to anyone under the age of 30. they are too childly to make good decisions.

So they make posts threads this.
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Maybe, but if you want to stir up a hornets nest, just go over to any of the pro pilot boards and start a thread suggesting they increase the 121 mandatory retirement age to 70. That'll stir up plenty of folks over the age of 30!
 
RV10flyer said:
I am 43 and have never thought that way about our elders. What a shame hearing this from a fellow pilot. You could have offered your assistance and respect. He could have been one our war veteran grandfathers. I have seen young men make fools of themselves in planes and on public forums.
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:sad:

I'm sorry I have disappointed you.
 
This is a tough topic, but one that should be discussed. This is a public safety issue.
 
ClimbnSink said:
As long as they aren't fat it is cool. Seriously my opinion and this will offend as well, the earlier in life you started flying the longer you can safely fly. Not suggesting that be codified into a rule, and we already have a system for grounding these guys: medicals and flight reviews. Both can be gamed but so could any new rule. I'd rather stop old folks from driving and let them fly, consider reflex time needed and decisions per second and driving is much worse for the feeble.
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Yup. Old drivers are in fact dangerous. I almost got ass-packed on the highway today following some old dude and his wife in their Buick when they decided they were going to get on the highway at 25mph. Thankfully I was on my bike (first day in a month I've been able to ride) and I was able to make up the speed in about 2 seconds once I passed them.
 
BobThePilot said:
This is a tough topic, but one that should be discussed. This is a public safety issue.
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It can be a public safety issue....but, just like elderly drivers, the problem is that there is no definitive age. Some folks in the 80's are still very capable and competent pilots. And others...like the old guy several years ago that killed himself and his son in law and took out a corporate jet on the ground at SDL...not so much.
 
BobThePilot said:
This is a tough topic, but one that should be discussed. This is a public safety issue.
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What do you suggest be done to stop the scourge of old pilots? Keep in mind we have medicals and flight reviews.
 
Well, it's like everything else, it depends on the individual. I've flown with some UFOs who were in fine shape mentally, and that's where it really counts. You don't have to be in that great of shape physically to fly, it's probably less physically demanding than driving a car, for sure your reactions don't need to be near as good in an airplane.
 
DavidWhite said:
Yup. Old drivers are in fact dangerous. I almost got ass-packed on the highway today following some old dude and his wife in their Buick when they decided they were going to get on the highway at 25mph. Thankfully I was on my bike (first day in a month I've been able to ride) and I was able to make up the speed in about 2 seconds once I passed them.
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Statistics say that young drivers are dangerous, not old ones. Drivers over the age of about 85 are almost as likely to die in car crashes as are teenagers, but much of that is because they are much less resilient than are younger people. The same accident that kills an octogenerian only injures a younger driver.
 
According to my GPS Tracker, I can ski my faster than my age in KPH. When I can't, I probably will stop flying. ;)

Cheers
 
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BobThePilot said:
This is a tough topic, but one that should be discussed. This is a public safety issue.
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Exactly.

The guy was slow because he has a bad back. Obviously he is no longer fit to fly because people with back problems are senile morons incapable of maintaining their membership in the mile high club.
 
FormerHangie said:
Statistics say that young drivers are dangerous, not old ones. Drivers over the age of about 85 are almost as likely to die in car crashes as are teenagers, but much of that is because they are much less resilient than are younger people. The same accident that kills an octogenerian only injures a younger driver.
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That's because we do dumb things, but it's not for lack of skill. Teenagers are good at killing themselves on the road, but its old people that create the rolling roadblock hazard-for-everyone-within-a-quarter-mile
 
DavidWhite said:
That's because we do dumb things, but it's not for lack of skill. Teenagers are good at killing themselves on the road, but its old people that create the rolling roadblock hazard-for-everyone-within-a-quarter-mile
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There's also a lack of skill involved for teenagers, but there are fast reflexes which can be good or bad. I think my peak driving skill was probably in the 22-25 age range. I'm a safer driver now, but not as good of one skill wise. Probably because I started flying.
 
My instructor was flying when Christ was a corporal. He is almost blind now and self grounded himself for fixed, rotary, and car. I'd still rather fly or drive with him than some of the other jokers at my home field. He is 80 now.
 
BobThePilot said:
This is a tough topic, but one that should be discussed. This is a public safety issue.
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Pilots have to pass medicals every two years. I've known several older pilots that stopped flying long before they became dangerous, they just didn't feel comfortable. ;) Pilots are a surprisingly responsible group, especially older pilots. :D In the grand scheme of what causes airplane accidents, I'd bet age related issues are at the bottom of the list, and too young would probably outweigh too old.;)
The airport in Carrollton GA is OV Gray field, he flew until he was 96, died at 103, when should he have been grounded? 70? 75? 80? 85??
He was flying to OSH in his 80's :D he mentored a lot of young guys back in the 80's while I was learning to fly.:yes:
 
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BobThePilot said:
made his slow painful way over to a Mooney parked outside the gate.
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How do you know he was in pain? Was he screaming as he walked out? Groaning? Since you were sitting on a bench, I'm assuming he was walking away from you and you couldn't tell if he was wincing with every step.

BobThePilot said:
No preflight of course (in his condition I wouldn't want to either), starts right on up and off he went.
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That isn't limited to the elderly. I've seen plenty of young people not preflight either. Rather than his medical condition, maybe it was just bad habit? Maybe he preflighted the plane before you got there and then went in to use the restroom before his flight.

BobThePilot said:
The requirements are obviously too lax.
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No. No they're not.
 
IMHO the OP simply wants more government control. heap it on, BMI now he wants this.
 
DavidWhite said:
That's because we do dumb things, but it's not for lack of skill. Teenagers are good at killing themselves on the road, but its old people that create the rolling roadblock hazard-for-everyone-within-a-quarter-mile
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It's also because you think you have skills you don't. Dealing with traffic is mostly about convention. What you don't want to is to surprise your fellow motorists, and most teens don't have enough experience to know all the conventions. Statistics also say that the safest drivers are those in their 50's.

BTW, almost 60 percent of fatalities occur in single vehicle accidents. That's mostly a matter of carelessness, being distratcted or intoxicated, or going radically too fast for conditions.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Exactly.

The guy was slow because he has a bad back. Obviously he is no longer fit to fly because people with back problems are senile morons incapable of maintaining their membership in the mile high club.
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Not true. It is possible to maintain one's membership in the mile high club with a bad back. Now you wouldn't make it into one of my "High flyin' smut" videos with that poor technique, that is true. You still wouldn't be a safe pilot.

Please don't confuse the issues.
 
Fearless Tower said:
It can be a public safety issue....but, just like elderly drivers, the problem is that there is no definitive age. Some folks in the 80's are still very capable and competent pilots.
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It's true that there is no one age, but live long enough and there will be that age. I spent the afternoon at an assisted living facility and there is not one of the residents I would want to see flying an airplane. Everyone wants to look the other way when this is discussed because no one wants to have it happen to them. It's the penalty that most people who live to be very old will face.
 
Everskyward said:
It's true that there is no one age, but live long enough and there will be that age. I spent the afternoon at an assisted living facility and there is not one of the residents I would want to see flying an airplane. Everyone wants to look the other way when this is discussed because no one wants to have it happen to them. It's the penalty that most people who live to be very old will face.
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And they were all trying to escape so they could get to their Mooneys right:D
Maybe decrepit old pilots are onto something, walk out of the igloo to a modern motorized iceberg with wings, a fine way to stay out of the assisted living prison. Can't fault that plan.
 
ClimbnSink said:
And they were all trying to escape so they could get to their Mooneys right:D
Maybe decrepit old pilots are onto something, walk out of the igloo to a modern motorized iceberg with wings, a fine way to stay out of the assisted living prison. Can't fault that plan.
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It'll be your turn someday if you live long enough.
 
FormerHangie said:
It's also because you think you have skills you don't. Dealing with traffic is mostly about convention. What you don't want to is to surprise your fellow motorists, and most teens don't have enough experience to know all the conventions. Statistics also say that the safest drivers are those in their 50's.

BTW, almost 60 percent of fatalities occur in single vehicle accidents. That's mostly a matter of carelessness, being distratcted or intoxicated, or going radically too fast for conditions.
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An old geriatric driver trundling along about 20 mph too slow has a ripple effect that makes the conditions unsafe for the rest of us even if they don't directly contribute to accidents. We all know that old drivers are bad drivers. There is no debate there. They also make bad pilots.

My grandfather was unable to turn his neck when we finally took his keys away from him. He was a stubborn old coot and I say that as a term of endearment. If he had been a pilot I have no doubt he would have been still flying. Lots of old people (and I'm talking 80+) have similar issues with mobility. That is not good for really being able to scan for traffic.
 
ClimbnSink said:
And they were all trying to escape so they could get to their Mooneys right:D
Maybe decrepit old pilots are onto something, walk out of the igloo to a modern motorized iceberg with wings, a fine way to stay out of the assisted living prison. Can't fault that plan.
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Scott Crossfield said something to that effect. He was concerned about hurting the aircraft, however.
 
FormerHangie said:
It's also because you think you have skills you don't. Dealing with traffic is mostly about convention. What you don't want to is to surprise your fellow motorists, and most teens don't have enough experience to know all the conventions. Statistics also say that the safest drivers are those in their 50's.

BTW, almost 60 percent of fatalities occur in single vehicle accidents. That's mostly a matter of carelessness, being distratcted or intoxicated, or going radically too fast for conditions.
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I'm not disagreeing with you. I also wonder how many accidents are people locking up their breaks and skidding off the road or getting rear ended by the person behind them not paying attention because granny merged into the left lane going 30.

My Grandma skidded to a stop in the middle of the intersection once because she was trying to stop for a yellow light, and the person behind her hit her.

Seriously, as someone who rides a lot and is very aware of other drivers 95% of the time someone almost causes an accident it's a woman talking on her cellphone or an old person.
 
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