Obama care website is finaly working.

Makes one wonder where all these people are who are finding a better deal than they had, whom Jose has made up out of thin air, and how many of them there are.

Well, just for hahas I went onto our states 'federal' site and entered all the information for my family. I have to say that it is no suprise that nobody actually manages to sign up, because the site is the biggest piece fo **** of a website I have encountered in a long time. It is slow, buggy, forgets information that you entered, changed two numbers in my address repetitively (I am pretty sure I know where I live!) and is just a tedious process that would stop anyone who doesn't really want it. Well, after I answered the third time that neither my 5 nor my 7 year old have been incarcerated in the last 60 days (not kidding) or whether they are of chamorro or guamanaian descent or a member of a federal tribe, I finally got my quotes for available coverage:

Turns out the 'Gold' plans that would set me back about 13k/year still come with $3800 deductible :hairraise: .

I think I'll stay on my high-deductible employer plan, well until it gets cancelled due to noncompliance with some obscure rule.
 
Little known fact. If you don't use your insurance policy, you are happy with it. If you attempt to use the crappy policies, you may not be happy.

Look how many people move treatments around Dec/Jan to play deductible games each year. Do you think the decisions on when to have treatments should be based upon the terms of your insurance company or your Dr?
Do you actually understand how deductibles work? They start fresh at the beginning of each plan year, which usually coincide with January 1. You can get treatment whenever the hell you want. If you met your deductible for this year, then having it done in December is a smart move.

Or did Obamacare miraculously fix the calendar too?
 
I grow weary of this tiresome fencing.

The things I have written here are, in most cases, specific and personal observations, from my insurance shopping, from my extensive dealings with insurance brokers and experts and from my interaction with dozens of businesses employing thousands of people. I do not (and will not) resort to parroting sunshine promises from politicians or press - nor will I repeat dire predictions(other than those which are my own, based upon my own observations of events and application of my keen analytical mind to the events).

The ACA has increased insurance cost, for employers and for individuals. I have seen not one instance of lower cost coverage. None.

I have spoken to a great many physicians, in my efforts to understand the effects this legislation and its enabling rules, so I could secure their explanation of what is happening with them. None - not a one - has expressed hope for a successful outcome for the ACA, whether in terms of access to "affordable" or "accessible" healthcare by patients, or in terms of effective and efficient administration of health care services by doctors.

Several have acknowledged their intent to accelerate their retirement; others (including my own PCP) have elected to withdraw from accepting insurance at all, in the (apparently, very rational) belief that the business model, while damaged as it stands today, is broken entirely under the new scheme. It appears we will have a shortage of good physicians.

It's a tax and power grab. That's all it is. Follow the money.
 
You never need any coverage. Until you need the coverage. That is the point of insurance and shared risk pools.

Man, you're brilliant. Thanks for teaching us how insurance works. I never knew.

We have had shared risk pools forever. We have also had policies that catered to the needs of certain groups. My 26 year-old daughter in vet school had a policy through the AVMA where she could either chose or deny maternity coverage, with a healthy rate increase if she elected it. She denied it, and had a monthly premium in the $165 range. That policy has been cancelled effective 12/31/13. She now has to go to an exchange, where such choice is no longer open to her.

Let's play a guessing game: will her premium be (a) lower, or (b) higher than what she was paying?
 
Utter bull****. You, Ezekiel Emmanuel, Obama, and Jay Carney keep repeating this "crappy policy" bull**** with no knowledge of that whatsoever. People liked their coverage. People could afford this coverage. And people are being denied this coverage that they liked because of Obamacare.

The examples of this are legion. If people are getting out of crappy policies, why aren't they paraded in front of TV cameras exclaiming that? Because they don't exist, that's why.
They didn't just like their coverage, it was working for them. It is a myth that ACA non-compliant plans are inferior. They will usually be replaced by restrictive higher priced plans to implement wealth redistribution.

My grievance is not political; all my energies are directed to enjoying life and staying alive, and I have no time for politics. For almost seven years I have fought and survived stage-4 gallbladder cancer, with a five-year survival rate of less than 2% after diagnosis. I am a determined fighter and extremely lucky. But this luck may have just run out: My affordable, lifesaving medical insurance policy has been canceled effective Dec. 31. My choice is to get coverage through the government health exchange and lose access to my cancer doctors, or pay much more for insurance outside the exchange (the quotes average 40% to 50% more) for the privilege of starting over with an unfamiliar insurance company and impaired benefits. Countless hours searching for non-exchange plans have uncovered nothing that compares well with my existing coverage. But the greatest source of frustration is Covered California, the state's Affordable Care Act health-insurance exchange and, by some reports, one of the best such exchanges in the country.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304527504579171710423780446
 
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The fact is that including coverage for those items DECREASES the cost of insurance to you. Math. It is simply far more cost effective to provide preventative care than restorative care. Since the members of the same policy you take out get the same benefits as you get, providing them with preventative care costs you less. Math.

[Edit] Oops. I just read further. What you really want is a policy that excludes women altogether. Who was it that asked me to support my claim of discrimination against women. That is what you really want.

My taxes are not going down in 2014, and my personal health insurance was canceled and the premium for a similar policy in 2014 is rising from $100/month to $260/month. Please tell me how this ACA is decreasing the cost to me again. Math? Where am I saving money here?

mazaju5a.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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My taxes are not going down in 2014, and my personal health insurance was canceled and the premium for a similar policy in 2014 is rising from $100/month to $260/month. Please tell me how this ACA is decreasing the cost to me again. Math? Where am I saving money here?

You are obviously uninformed and your experience is another singular event made up by Fox news.

Well, at least your out of pocket maximum only doubled :thumbsup: . And if you take advantage of your free gender reassignment surgery, you can take advantage of the maternity care benefits.
 
Look how many people move treatments around Dec/Jan to play deductible games each year.

Too many, and deferred treatment can cost lives.

But how does the ACA change that? Are there not still annual deductibles in many of the approved plans?

As an aside, at first glance, the cheapest plan offered on the gov't website for me and Karen is $450 for a "Catastrophic" plan. We're currently satisfied with our high deductible Aetna plan at about $370/month. Will have to investigate further to see whether the extra $80/month would buy more or less coverage than we have now - I did not see an easy way to get the details on the plans offered on the website.

In any case, that would be $960 more annually, not $2,500 less as represented/promised.

To be fair, so far Aetna has said our current plan qualifies and will not change. Just waiting to see how the rate changes going forward.
 
The fact is that including coverage for those items DECREASES the cost of insurance to you. Math. It is simply far more cost effective to provide preventative care than restorative care. Since the members of the same policy you take out get the same benefits as you get, providing them with preventative care costs you less. Math.
The truth is that many people overestimate cost savings from preventative care. There is primary prevention and secondary prevention and the cost effectiveness varies considerably. The belief that we can drastically reduce medical expenditures by getting everybody in primary care is another utopian myth. I still think primary care is very important but don't try to convince me it will pay for itself.
 
The truth is that many people overestimate cost savings from preventative care. There is primary prevention and secondary prevention and the cost effectiveness varies considerably. The belief that we can drastically reduce medical expenditures by getting everybody in primary care is another utopian myth. I still think primary care is very important but don't try to convince me it will pay for itself.

My cardiology prof joked that we should put metoprolol and simvastatin in the city water supply and be done with it.

Nobody wants primary prevention, because that would actually require people to change their eating and exercise habits. And who wants that.
 
As an aside, at first glance, the cheapest plan offered on the gov't website for me and Karen is $450 for a "Catastrophic" plan. We're currently satisfied with our high deductible Aetna plan at about $370/month. Will have to investigate further to see whether the extra $80/month would buy more or less coverage than we have now - I did not see an easy way to get the details on the plans offered on the website.
Research that. We perused the site and the words suggest that catastrophic plans are only available to those under 30 years old.
 
My cardiology prof joked that we should put metoprolol and simvastatin in the city water supply and be done with it.

Nobody wants primary prevention, because that would actually require people to change their eating and exercise habits. And who wants that.
Statins are very useful and the generics offer great value at $4 per month. The problem is that many people refuse to take them for a variety of reasons. Diet, exercise and smoking cessation are even more cost effective but good luck getting the general public go along with these basic recommendations. I have many patients with serious heart problems who weigh over 300 lbs who tell me they eat a healthful diet. Getting nagged by a primary care doc (or mid level) regularly will likely only result in minimal gains in lifestyle modification.
 
Man, you're brilliant. Thanks for teaching us how insurance works. I never knew.

We have had shared risk pools forever. We have also had policies that catered to the needs of certain groups. My 26 year-old daughter in vet school had a policy through the AVMA where she could either chose or deny maternity coverage, with a healthy rate increase if she elected it. She denied it, and had a monthly premium in the $165 range. That policy has been cancelled effective 12/31/13. She now has to go to an exchange, where such choice is no longer open to her.

Let's play a guessing game: will her premium be (a) lower, or (b) higher than what she was paying?

Student health insurance policies have always been great deals because they were based on the actuarial of that particular risk pool.

When I first started college, my health insurance plan cost me, I believe, $12.00/month. It paid in full for services at the campus clinic or a few of the local hospitals; or for emergency care anywhere, but with the customary co-pays. The policy was co-branded by a well-known insurance company (Travelers, I think, but I wouldn't swear to it) and covered me whether school was in or out of session.

Those policies, I am sure, will be no more under Obamacare; and college-aged young people will be the cohort that is most royally screwed by the ACA.

If they even bother with insurance, which I believe is both unlikely and a poor financial decision for them, college kids won't be paying $12.00 a month anymore, nor even $165.00 a month. Their policies will also have such high deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pocket expenses that the vast majority of them will literally be paying for nothing. The costs for their infrequent use of health care won't even come close to meeting their deductibles, so they will pay through the nose for insurance, and then wind up paying for everything out-of-pocket anyway.

Which brings me to another thing, in fact, the thing about the ACA that bothers me the most.

A few people here know me IRL, or have at least met me once or twice. Most of these people will affirm that despite some of my diatribe, I actually care deeply about the poor.

You see, I was raised poor, and as an adult I started out poor. When I was poor, even coming up with money for food, or gas to get to work, was a challenge -- and gas was cheap back then.

Whether I'd be able to pay the rent every month was a coin-toss. Utility bills were the same. I sometimes had to resort to the old trick of mailing the check for the phone bill to the electric company, the check for the electric bill to the phone company, and so forth. The "mistake" bought me a little extra time so I could get another paycheck under my belt.

My mother used to tell me that a dollar was a lot of money if you needed a dollar and didn't have it. She was right, too.

In short, I know what it's like to be poor. I also have great compassion for poor people, and once I was no longer poor, I performed a great deal of volunteer work among still-poor people.

Having been poor, and having worked among the poor, I know for a fact that poor people will gravitate to the "bronze" level policies because, well, they have no money. So even with the subsidies, they'll try to minimize their premium payments. If they can get a "bronze" policy for little or nothing after the subsidy, then that's what they're going to do.

The problem is that poor people simply can't afford the kind of out-of-pocket costs associated with the lower-level plans available under Obamacare. For the poor, a difference of a few bucks a month is huge because they simply don't have the few bucks; so even with the insurance, they still won't be able to afford medical care.

So when all is said and done, under Obamacare, the poor will still be in the same boat they're in now. Because of the high deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pocket expenses associated with the only plans they can afford, they still won't be able to afford health care. They and/or the taxpayers will be paying for health insurance that they can't afford to use.

That's why even more so than the inherent unfairness of requiring people to pay for care they can't possibly ever need (like maternity coverage for males or post-menopausal women, as an example), the thing about Obamacare that bothers me the most is the sheer stupidity of it.

I don't even mind the subsidies, to tell you the truth. I don't object to helping the poor. I would rather it be done through some channel other than the government, whose record of efficiency is less-than-wonderful; but hey, not everything has to be to my liking. If it works, I can live with it.

What I mind is that, in the end, this law is going to increase health care costs for almost everyone, disincentivize quality medicine, create yet another maze of government bureaucracies on both the federal and state levels, and consume ponderous amounts of tax revenue -- while doing absolutely nothing -- NOTHING -- do make health care more accessible to poor and working-class people.

The more I look at it, in fact, the more it becomes clear that the ACA is the poster child for legislative stupidity. It's hard to find anything smart about it. It's just a staggering, steaming pile of **** sheer stupidity.

The saddest thing of all is that it could have been done right. I know I sound like a broken record, but the truth is that there existed effective, successful models for how to do it right. As I mentioned in a previous post, New York's HealthyNY program (soon to be another casualty of Obamacare, by the way) was the example I'm most familiar with.

By way of a quick recap, HealthyNY consisted of a streamlined, basic and major medical plan, with prescription drug coverage, and very low deductibles and co-pays. Any licensed insurer could offer it to any applicant who met the income guidelines. The insurers themselves were responsible for vetting and certifying applicants, so there was little taxpayer expense.

The coverage wasn't broad, but it was very deep. It wouldn't pay for your yoga lessons or your gym membership, but it would pay for your quadruple bypass or your cancer treatment. In short, it provided excellent coverage for the vast majority of people's medical needs, but practically no coverage for anything else.

That's what the ACA should have been looking at as "bronze" level plan: just basic and major medical care, with affordable deductibles and co-pays. That's what the vast majority of people need.

The higher "metals" should have been based on broader coverage rather than lower deductibles and co-pays (although those could also have been elected). The higher-level plans would be optional for all income groups. In other words, wealthy people would also be able to select just the basic / major medical "bronze" plan if that's what they wanted.

I would even throw in another idea for the poor. Bear with me, because this is a bit complex. But it's also brilliant, even if I do say so myself.

Every "bronze" level plan, which would be limited to basic, major medical, and prescription drugs, would also come with an HSA account at any financial institution that agreed to certain requirements. The main requirement would be that there be no maintenance fees on the HSA. The subscriber's policy premiums would include a small amount every month that would be deposited into the HSA until it was funded to the level of the policy's deductible.

The HSA would also include an initial credit line equal to the difference between the HSA balance and the remaining deductible in a given calender year. The credit would be available if a subscriber had a major medical expense that exceeded their HSA balance and whatever cash they could afford at the time of treatment. The credit line would be backed by the federal government, which would have the ability to collect it from the subscriber in the event of default.

With a system such as this, every poor family could afford basic and major medical coverage, which would satisfy all of the medical needs of the vast majority of families. More importantly, however, they would never have to delay care because they had no cash in their pockets. The medical credit line would be available, allowing them to pay in installments for unexpected emergencies; and the HSA balance, in most cases, would be sufficient to cover routine co-pays after a few months.

Most Liberals, of course, would hate this idea because wealthier people would have the option of buying broader coverage than poor people could afford. Liberals have this insistence that everyone be treated the same, even if it makes no sense whatsoever in a given context.

In this context, Liberal thinking has resulted in a system so completely ass-backwards that it defies logic. The plans that have the lowest out-of-pocket expenses are so expensive that they're available only to the wealthy; and the only plans the poor can afford have such high out-of-pocket expenses that even with the insurance, the poor will still not be able to see a doctor when they get sick.

Someone please explain to me how that makes sense.

This whole issue frustrates me because believe me, I'm far from the sharpest knife in the drawer, yet even I am astounded by the sheer stupidity of the Obamacare model. It could have been done well, and the models were already there. But politics got in the way, leaving the poor out in the cold in the process.

-Rich
 
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Damn Rich, why can't we elect you? I know you don't want to do it but you have such a great handle on these things that I might even be tempted to move back to New York just to vote for you!
 
:yeahthat:

Bows down in respect to Rich aka Nouveau Hillbilly.

Well said sir, spot freaking on!

'Gimp
 
Damn Rich, why can't we elect you? I know you don't want to do it but you have such a great handle on these things that I might even be tempted to move back to New York just to vote for you!

:yeahthat:

Bows down in respect to Rich aka Nouveau Hillbilly.

Well said sir, spot freaking on!

'Gimp

I'm neither wise enough nor moral enough, nor do I have any interest in, ruling others. What little I know about doing what is right, I learned by spending the first half of my life doing what was wrong; and whatever little wisdom I've acquired, I learned by being foolish. Hence the reason behind my tag line.

But thanks, anyway. I'm flattered.

-Rich
 
Student health insurance policies have always been great deals because they were based on the actuarial of that particular risk pool.

When I first started college, my health insurance plan cost me, I believe, $12.00/month. It paid in full for services at the campus clinic or a few of the local hospitals; or for emergency care anywhere, but with the customary co-pays. The policy was co-branded by a well-known insurance company (Travelers, I think, but I wouldn't swear to it) and covered me whether school was in or out of session.

Those policies, I am sure, will be no more under Obamacare; and college-aged young people will be the cohort that is most royally screwed by the ACA.

If they even bother with insurance, which I believe is both unlikely and a poor financial decision for them, college kids won't be paying $12.00 a month anymore, nor even $165.00 a month. Their policies will also have such high deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pocket expenses that the vast majority of them will literally be paying for nothing. The costs for their infrequent use of health care won't even come close to meeting their deductibles, so they will pay through the nose for insurance, and then wind up paying for everything out-of-pocket anyway.

Which brings me to another thing, in fact, the thing about the ACA that bothers me the most.

A few people here know me IRL, or have at least met me once or twice. Most of these people will affirm that despite some of my diatribe, I actually care deeply about the poor.

You see, I was raised poor, and as an adult I started out poor. When I was poor, even coming up with money for food, or gas to get to work, was a challenge -- and gas was cheap back then.

Whether I'd be able to pay the rent every month was a coin-toss. Utility bills were the same. I sometimes had to resort to the old trick of mailing the check for the phone bill to the electric company, the check for the electric bill to the phone company, and so forth. The "mistake" bought me a little extra time so I could get another paycheck under my belt.

My mother used to tell me that a dollar was a lot of money if you needed a dollar and didn't have it. She was right, too.

In short, I know what it's like to be poor. I also have great compassion for poor people, and once I was no longer poor, I performed a great deal of volunteer work among still-poor people.

Having been poor, and having worked among the poor, I know for a fact that poor people will gravitate to the "bronze" level policies because, well, they have no money. So even with the subsidies, they'll try to minimize their premium payments. If they can get a "bronze" policy for little or nothing after the subsidy, then that's what they're going to do.

The problem is that poor people simply can't afford the kind of out-of-pocket costs associated with the lower-level plans available under Obamacare. For the poor, a difference of a few bucks a month is huge because they simply don't have the few bucks; so even with the insurance, they still won't be able to afford medical care.

So when all is said and done, under Obamacare, the poor will still be in the same boat they're in now. Because of the high deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pocket expenses associated with the only plans they can afford, they still won't be able to afford health care. They and/or the taxpayers will be paying for health insurance that they can't afford to use.

That's why even more so than the inherent unfairness of requiring people to pay for care they can't possibly ever need (like maternity coverage for males or post-menopausal women, as an example), the thing about Obamacare that bothers me the most is the sheer stupidity of it.

I don't even mind the subsidies, to tell you the truth. I don't object to helping the poor. I would rather it be done through some channel other than the government, whose record of efficiency is less-than-wonderful; but hey, not everything has to be to my liking. If it works, I can live with it.

What I mind is that, in the end, this law is going to increase health care costs for almost everyone, disincentivize quality medicine, create yet another maze of government bureaucracies on both the federal and state levels, and consume ponderous amounts of tax revenue -- while doing absolutely nothing -- NOTHING -- do make health care more accessible to poor and working-class people.

The more I look at it, in fact, the more it becomes clear that the ACA is the poster child for legislative stupidity. It's hard to find anything smart about it. It's just a staggering, steaming pile of **** sheer stupidity.

The saddest thing of all is that it could have been done right. I know I sound like a broken record, but the truth is that there existed effective, successful models for how to do it right. As I mentioned in a previous post, New York's HealthyNY program (soon to be another casualty of Obamacare, by the way) was the example I'm most familiar with.

By way of a quick recap, HealthyNY consisted of a streamlined, basic and major medical plan, with prescription drug coverage, and very low deductibles and co-pays. Any licensed insurer could offer it to any applicant who met the income guidelines. The insurers themselves were responsible for vetting and certifying applicants, so there was little taxpayer expense.

The coverage wasn't broad, but it was very deep. It wouldn't pay for your yoga lessons or your gym membership, but it would pay for your quadruple bypass or your cancer treatment. In short, it provided excellent coverage for the vast majority of people's medical needs, but practically no coverage for anything else.

That's what the ACA should have been looking at as "bronze" level plan: just basic and major medical care, with affordable deductibles and co-pays. That's what the vast majority of people need.

The higher "metals" should have been based on broader coverage rather than lower deductibles and co-pays (although those could also have been elected). The higher-level plans would be optional for all income groups. In other words, wealthy people would also be able to select just the basic / major medical "bronze" plan if that's what they wanted.

I would even throw in another idea for the poor. Bear with me, because this is a bit complex. But it's also brilliant, even if I do say so myself.

Every "bronze" level plan, which would be limited to basic, major medical, and prescription drugs, would also come with an HSA account at any financial institution that agreed to certain requirements. The main requirement would be that there be no maintenance fees on the HSA. The subscriber's policy premiums would include a small amount every month that would be deposited into the HSA until it was funded to the level of the policy's deductible.

The HSA would also include an initial credit line equal to the difference between the HSA balance and the remaining deductible in a given calender year. The credit would be available if a subscriber had a major medical expense that exceeded their HSA balance and whatever cash they could afford at the time of treatment. The credit line would be backed by the federal government, which would have the ability to collect it from the subscriber in the event of default.

With a system such as this, every poor family could afford basic and major medical coverage, which would satisfy all of the medical needs of the vast majority of families. More importantly, however, they would never have to delay care because they had no cash in their pockets. The medical credit line would be available, allowing them to pay in installments for unexpected emergencies; and the HSA balance, in most cases, would be sufficient to cover routine co-pays after a few months.

Most Liberals, of course, would hate this idea because wealthier people would have the option of buying broader coverage than poor people could afford. Liberals have this insistence that everyone be treated the same, even if it makes no sense whatsoever in a given context.

In this context, Liberal thinking has resulted in a system so completely ass-backwards that it defies logic. The plans that have the lowest out-of-pocket expenses are so expensive that they're available only to the wealthy; and the only plans the poor can afford have such high out-of-pocket expenses that even with the insurance, the poor will still not be able to see a doctor when they get sick.

Someone please explain to me how that makes sense.

This whole issue frustrates me because believe me, I'm far from the sharpest knife in the drawer, yet even I am astounded by the sheer stupidity of the Obamacare model. It could have been done well, and the models were already there. But politics got in the way, leaving the poor out in the cold in the process.

-Rich

Where does Medicaid fit into your picture of poor people?
 
It's funny how things segue sometimes.

I have a prospective client who owns a restaurant that serves only soup. He serves a staggering variety of soups, but nothing else except for crackers and beverages. He wants to use the tagline, "Soup is good food."

Unfortunately for my prospect, that line has already been trademarked by one of the major soup companies (Campbell's, I think). I remember the old ads that used it. I told him he needed to come up with something else and then we'd check it against the PTO database.

It got me thinking, though...

Soup is, in fact, good food. It's also cheap food. That's why soup kitchens serve it: It's good and it's cheap. I've cooked, ladled, and consumed many gallons of it myself and can attest to it being both good and cheap.

That's what the poor need in terms of health insurance: soup. But Obamacare wants to force them to buy caviar, instead. That would be fine if they could afford caviar. But what they can afford is soup. Nothing fancy, but good, nutritious, cheap soup.

-Rich
 
Where does Medicaid fit into your picture of poor people?

Medicaid serves the poorest of the poor with inferior care. Most working poor people don't qualify for it, and few doctors accept it.

People on Medicaid are relegated to the worst of the worst clinics, where they way for hours and hours to see whatever doctor happens to be on duty, and whose main qualification is having a license being willing to work for the pittance of reimbursement that he or she will receive in return.

There are exceptions, of course. There are some good providers who accept Medicaid because, firstly, they have consciences and care about the poor; and secondly (and more importantly), they have enough non-Medicaid payments that they can afford to lose money on their Medicaid patients.

But these providers are the exception. Even good physicians who would love to treat the poor often can't afford to because they literally lose money on Medicaid patients. So for the most part, if you want a model of the worst possible medical plan, it would be Medicaid.

It could be improved, of course; but nothing in the current law does that. It expands eligibility a bit, but does nothing to address the essential problem that Medicaid pays doctors and hospitals so little that it's hard to find decent providers who accept it.

With regard to eligibility, poverty needs to be defined in terms of particular expenses and needs. A person can make an income well above the statutory poverty level; but if that person happens to have a sick child, or is sick himself or herself, and can't afford treatment, then that person and his or her family are medically indigent. They are poor with respect to medical care, but still too "rich" to qualify for Medicaid.

Most working poor people fall into this category. They earn too much to qualify for Medicaid, as horrible as Medicaid is; but they still can't afford medical care. They live hand-to-mouth. They count every nickel. Feeding their kids is a struggle. A single illness that requires professional medical care would be disastrous for them.

So to answer your question, Medicaid doesn't fit in at all. It's a horrible program that only covers the poorest of the poor, and drastically limits their care choices. I would abolish it altogether and enroll the poor in private medical plans such as I described, even for people so poor that they had to be 100 percent subsidized. The care they received would be better than what they're getting now, and it probably would wind up being cheaper for taxpayers than administering the abomination that is Medicaid.

-Rich
 
It would seem apparent from his discussion that he is talking about those poor who don't qualify for Medicaid. I'm not sure what that income group has to do with this discussion.
 
medicaid is soup.

soup without meat.

also without vegetables.

but it is soup...

it is also very expensive soup (because the states cook it using a recipe provided by the feds. And if you think the feds suck at running stuff, you haven't encountered the chimps the states hire to run their medicaid programs)
 
Damn Rich, why can't we elect you? I know you don't want to do it but you have such a great handle on these things that I might even be tempted to move back to New York just to vote for you!

I have a hunch that Rich has worked a little too hard in life to want to end up as a talking head spouting party line nonsense trying to please the unpleasable.

I think anyone who runs for any office these days must inherently have something seriously wrong with them, or they are just plain greedy people who strive for approval from others.....it is not something a leader nor a sane man would want to do.

This explains why we have a non functioning Congress, and pretty much no checks and balances that the three branches were supposed to give us....they are all in cahoots with each other...yet unable to agree on anything other than borrowing more money in order to pay down the deficit.....like a dog chasing its tail or the blind leading the blind.



-John
 
Healthcare in this country would be in remarkably better shape if Rich and not Sebelius was the Secretary of HHS.
 
This whole issue frustrates me because believe me, I'm far from the sharpest knife in the drawer, yet even I am astounded by the sheer stupidity of the Obamacare model. It could have been done well, and the models were already there. But politics got in the way, leaving the poor out in the cold in the process.

-Rich

I nominate for Post of The Year, Non-Aviation Category.
 
Someone please explain to me how that makes sense.

Rich, you are brilliant, and I couldn't agree more. I hope you don't mind if I take the liberty to share your ideas (with appropriate attribution) with my Facebook friends. These are serious issues that need serious discussion, something is NOT happening currently.
 
Keeping it aviation related - What's wrong with being PIC of your own health care?

We all make dumb decisions.
 
More Schadenfreude. I just can't help it.


San Francisco architect Lee Hammack says he and his wife, JoEllen Brothers, are “cradle Democrats.” They have donated to the liberal group Organizing for America and worked the phone banks a year ago for President Obama’s re-election.

“We’ve both been in very good health all of our lives – exercise, don’t smoke, drink lightly, healthy weight, no health issues, and so on,” Hammack told me.
The couple — Lee, 60, and JoEllen, 59 — have been paying $550 a month for their health coverage — a plan that offers solid coverage, not one of the skimpy plans Obama has criticized. But recently, Kaiser informed them the plan would be canceled at the end of the year because it did not meet the requirements of the Affordable Care Act. The couple would need to find another one. The cost would be around double what they pay now, but the benefits would be worse http://www.propublica.org/article/loyal-obama-supporters-canceled-by-obamacare

To all those here who have told us their rates and deductibles are stable: Just wait.
 
...
To all those here who have told us their rates and deductibles are stable: Just wait.

hey, just remember that we need to do this because of all the people who have been denied access to health care. It's all a small price to pay.
 
So to answer your question, Medicaid doesn't fit in at all. It's a horrible program that only covers the poorest of the poor, and drastically limits their care choices. I would abolish it altogether and enroll the poor in private medical plans such as I described, even for people so poor that they had to be 100 percent subsidized. The care they received would be better than what they're getting now, and it probably would wind up being cheaper for taxpayers than administering the abomination that is Medicaid.

-Rich

Kind of an "individual mandate" to force them to get private insurance.....

Hmm... Where have we heard that idea before??? :dunno:
 
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