My dog bit a kid

Captain

Captain

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I was curious what ya'll thought about this;

We have a small dog. She's about 2 years old and we rescued her from certain death. She was living in an abandoned house living on god knows what and my wife picked her up and brought her home.

I took her to the vet and the vet gave her 50/50 odds of even living due to being riddled with worms and malnurishment. Well, we spent the money and she did come around and she's perfectly healthy now.

I bring this up because I think it plays into why she's so territorial. She's nice as pie around the family but she HATES strangers. We have to put her in her crate whenever anybody comes over as she'll growl, bark and even go after them and bite.

So, about a week ago my sons friend came over for a play date. Nice kid but his dad dropped him off in the driveway and he just bounded into the house. That's fine with us, but not fine with Bailey (the dog). She was very startled by this 'intruder' and she ran up and took a good bite on his leg.

She is up to date on shots so that wasn't an issue but still, there's my sons friend with a bleeding leg and a chunk a skin missing. It'll heal but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with a scar.

I got to his dad before he left and we all came inside and cleaned him up. The bleeding stopped and he just left with a bandaid and neosporin on the wound. They did not go to the hospital or doctor.

So, anybody have a comment on this and an idea how to settle my dog down?
 
Shock collar. Test it out on yourself to make sure it's just uncomfortable and not causing pain. I did that with my dog.
 
Not going to be much help, but it is a good thing that stitches weren't involved and that the dad seems understanding. If the bite does end up needing more than neosporin, expect a visit from animal control. They'll be required to follow-up.

My daughter needed stitches after she and a neighbor dog were playing - they essentially bumped heads and she got cut across the nose. Once the hospital got involved they were required to report it, right after they suspected me of hurting her.

Animal control wanted our neighbor to do one of two things: either turn over the dog for two weeks of isolation, or make sure that the dog was never out of their control (in the house, or on a leash even in their fenced yard) for two weeks.
 
It's a good opportunity to explain to your son's friend, and your son, that no one should come into the house uninvited,no matter how good a friend. Explain that not everyone may be as understanding about the dog's behavior.
 
If you are not going keep your doors locked, you'd better keep that dog crated, or at least put up a "Beware of Dog" sign on your front door. I know some people recommend against that since it implies you know the dog is dangerous, but there's no way now you can argue that you didn't know.

As for dogs with fear-based aggression (especially small dogs and those with a history of abuse -- and yours has both going against it), there is little you can do to change that short of dramatic behavior modification training by professionals (and you do not want to see how they do that). You definitely should not try to do this yourself. You can try getting the assistance of professional dog trainer with expertise in this area, but don't be too distressed if it doesn't work. We once had a dog with a similar background and problems, and in the end, very sadly, we had to put him down.
 
If you have kids coming over routinely either get the dog fixed (by trained professionals like Ron said) or get rid of it. Way too much exposure says me.
 
This is who I use. I went through many trainers for my labs. These guys got me results the first day that others hadn't been able to do in months. It's not the dog, its the owner. I had a lot of adjusting to do, but it works. Just like flying it's not the airplane.

http://www.lorenzosdogtrainingteam.com
 
You dodged a figurative bullet here. As a next step I'd put a literal bullet in that dog's head. You won't get so lucky next time. After dispatching the dog I'd be on the phone with my insurance agent checking on my liability coverage.
 
Alexb2000 said:
It's not the dog, its the owner.
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In the case of fear-based aggression, it really is the dog (or, perhaps more accurately, the dog's previous owner, and that can't be changed at all). This is a deep-seated problem resulting from past abuse (not just neglect). You can't fix it on your own, and sometimes (depending on the depth of the problem) even the professionals can't fix it.
 
I'm going to start by saying I'm no expert in dog behavior. I have had a few, and still have one at home. Now, after that I think you are working against nature. A dog is territorial by nature and will defend his 'pack' from outsiders. You've brought him up to health, you feed him, shelter him and take care of him and he has adopted you based on your good care. He sees anyone entering his zone as a potential threat, and acts accordingly.

So, I don't think this is bad behavior for a dog because they have a different idea of social structure than we do. If the visitor is with your family first, and the dog sees that he is a friend to his pack it may help but you are also working against nature when you cage him during other people's visits. This is telling him that his regular comfort level with the family is threatened.

It won't happen quickly, but you can slowly train your dog to be more accepting of strangers. What I did was start taking my dog along on errands, and have him meet strangers on their turf, and see that they are not generally a threat, and the social system is working fine. As he gets more secure with going out, and coming home with you after investigating other places, you can introduce him to non-family members and over time he will begin to adopt and accept them. But, it can be a slow process. If a friend showed up every day, and spent a good deal of time at your house, eventually the dog would see that they are not a threat, and become more tolerant.

Dogs a pack animals and they protect their pack members from danger. This is good in some ways, but the social fabric of humans is more open than dogs. Even with a bad history I think it could be made to work, but once more - it'll take time with each new person. Try getting him out and about some to see how it feels when he is the one entering someone else's space.

My dog used to be very aggressive when young to strangers in the house. The more I took him to different places, the better he got at acceptance. Hope it helps.
 
My first question in such situations is "What did the kid do?" We know the answer, and hopefully the kid learned.

The behavior modification on your part should be to cage the dog when you know you'll have visitors coming. I'd also keep your door locked better. You can do exercises to acclimate the dog to new people coming over, but there are limits to how much you can modify a dog's personality in my experience.

We keep the rottie and Akita away from visitors most of the time. More than anything, small kids can cause problems and the dogs weigh 100 lbs or so - way more than the kids.
 
We have one of those rescue dogs and he is quite spooky about strangers and the broom. Every time my wife or I gert out a broom to sweep up, he gets all kinds of spooky. When anyone comes to the door, he wants to go nuts, so we put a gate across our bedroom door and every time the door bell rings, we scoop him up and put him on the other side.

Works so far.
 
Captain said:
I was curious what ya'll thought about this;

We have a small dog. She's about 2 years old and we rescued her from certain death. She was living in an abandoned house living on god knows what and my wife picked her up and brought her home.

I took her to the vet and the vet gave her 50/50 odds of even living due to being riddled with worms and malnurishment. Well, we spent the money and she did come around and she's perfectly healthy now.

I bring this up because I think it plays into why she's so territorial. She's nice as pie around the family but she HATES strangers. We have to put her in her crate whenever anybody comes over as she'll growl, bark and even go after them and bite.

So, about a week ago my sons friend came over for a play date. Nice kid but his dad dropped him off in the driveway and he just bounded into the house. That's fine with us, but not fine with Bailey (the dog). She was very startled by this 'intruder' and she ran up and took a good bite on his leg.

She is up to date on shots so that wasn't an issue but still, there's my sons friend with a bleeding leg and a chunk a skin missing. It'll heal but I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up with a scar.

I got to his dad before he left and we all came inside and cleaned him up. The bleeding stopped and he just left with a bandaid and neosporin on the wound. They did not go to the hospital or doctor.

So, anybody have a comment on this and an idea how to settle my dog down?
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Depends on how mom feels about it all and if Florida is a "One free bite" state or not. The issue may be resolved with a court ordered injection.
 
Ron Levy said:
In the case of fear-based aggression, it really is the dog (or, perhaps more accurately, the dog's previous owner, and that can't be changed at all). This is a deep-seated problem resulting from past abuse (not just neglect). You can't fix it on your own, and sometimes (depending on the depth of the problem) even the professionals can't fix it.
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Sure there are examples that cannot be rehabbed.

However, many dogs are put down that are easily rehabbed. My trainer just rehabbed a 130lb Shepard that was so violent the owners threw food in the backyard out of the window and never sat foot back there. The dog killed ANYTHING that came into his yard. They were of course going to put the dog down, but felt guilty for treating this dog so badly since he was a puppy. In two weeks my trainer showed me a picture of his cat sleeping on the Sheppards stomach. He has had several people excited to take the dog because it is soooo sweet and well behaved. No one would ever know he lived in a bare dirt yard covered with the blood and bones of all his victims.
 
The background of this dog. My wife was a dependency case manager for the children's home society. Basically, she would manage kids on behalf of the court when the parents were not behaving. Drugs, incarceration, abuse...that sort of thing.

She had a family with a few kids who moved out of one house because the power was turned off for non-payment. They all moved into another family members house but left Bailey behind for whatever reason. My wife would go by the house and see this dog just waste away from neglect. She would ask the family if they took care of her and they'd always say, 'yes'. But obviously they were not. She was around 6 months old at this point I think.

Attached is a picture of the day we got her.
 

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Watch the dog whisperer series. Cesar Milan is very good.

Shock collars can be helpful, but can be harmful in the wrong hands and if it's the wrong dog or situation. If not used properly it could injure a dog, make the dog more fearful or more aggressive. People that don't understand dog behavior, should not use shock collars on their dogs!
 
Alexb2000 said:
Sure there are examples that cannot be rehabbed. However, many dogs are put down that are easily rehabbed.
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Agreed, but it's not done "easily," it takes the professional help you got, and sometimes even that doesn't work, so be prepared for that sad eventuality.
 
We had a Shiztsu (sp) that bit EVERYBODY, we warned people and they insisted that she looked so sweet and wouldn't bite them...........she did!:dunno: She hated kids, except ours and the older she got the meaner she got, I had her put down after she got hit by a car. The vet determined she could recover from her injuries, but she was too mean for anyone to nurse her back to health! :yikes:
I'll never have another small dog again, I hope. We've got a Golden that wouldn't bite you if you were cutting her foot off with a butter knife and a lab mix that thinks she's a lap dog. :D
 
Ugh... Had to put 4.5yr perfectly healthy dog to sleep, no-pet-policy ever since
Rescue puppy from a shelter, grew up healthy and strong, never abused in our household.
From about 2.5 years or so started developing aggression towards strangers. After a while you run out of the good reasons and excuses. Bit the kid - the kid was poking her with a stick. Bit a friend in the face - he was drunk and wanted a hug, and she hated the smell of alcohol. Bit my mom in the face when she tried to move my boots.. Overprotective of everything ours? And it was getting worse and worse.
Was a very, very sad day.
Vets said either a puppyhood trauma that never went away or possibly a tumor.
I'd say try a professional trainer before euthanasia if the trainer takes the dog in, but at the end it is what it is.
 
You are going to have to keep your dog away from situations like that. I don't think fear-biters can be rehabilitated easily.

I have had big dogs for decades, and German Shepherds for 19 years. A few years ago I pulled a German Shepherd from doggy death row, and spent months and many thousands fixing him up from infections and heartworm, and he nearly died a few times. Eight months later, he was in great health, a good family dog with us, loved us to pieces and he really seemed to know we saved him. Except he didn't like others so much. One day we took the dogs for a walk, and the leash wasn't tight enough, and he just swung around and took a chunk out of a jogger, for no reason, with no warning, nothing. He was so fast, we were shocked. We had passed this same jogger many times before and the dog didn't react before this time. We didn't have any time to react, or stop it. The poor man ended up in the hospital, animal control condemned the dog, and long story short, there was nothing I could do to save him. The only thing I was allowed to do was have my own vet kill him in my arms, instead of animal control seizing him. My one and only rescue. My spouse refuses to rescue another dog. We were lucky the man didn't sue us.

Now you know your dog bites. You have no excuse the next time. I love dogs, but there really is no excuse for dogs that bite people.
 
I doubt I'll ever rescue another dog. Sorry guys, color me selfish and maybe you're right. You can inherit way too many problems, and dogs can cause a LOT of damage.
 
My rescue , shep/greyhound mix has shredded my face twice. 80 or so stitches each time. Both times , I had my face right up next to his.

The first time he was sick and i leaned over to clean up his vomit , and the second time was playing with him and I got way to close .

He is a great dog but something really screwed him up when he was a pup. We have a rule that NO ONE just shows up unannounced , and NO kids PERIOD , which is great as I'm not a social butterfly and I hate entertaining people with their ignorant lack of disciplined kids.

Adults who come over are told what they can and can't do with the dog and that mostly consists of let the dog sniff you with me right there , if the dog brings you his frisbee, you throw it a few times and he will go lay down.

The UPS guy ALWAYS leaves him a bone when delivering , even when the dog is inside .

As for the neighbors dogs , I have zero responsibility as to what happens if YOUR dog comes under my fence, whether it makes it back under the fence before my dog wants to play , eat or I catch it first and it flies back home over the fence.
 
I have a similar policy with the neighbors cat, if I catch it in the yard I will chase it off, with an airsoft gun if I have one handy. This is for your cat's own good, I have greyhounds, they are trained to chase the furry thing. The smaller one will catch the cat and then let it go, the bigger will make a meal out of it. We found that one out the hard way at a friends house. We had to rescue the poor kitty from halfway down Jack's gullet.
 
This is why I have a lab.
 
You better hope your friends let the situation die off and don't sue. If your insurance company finds out, they may force you to put the dog down or cancel your policy. My wife works for State Farm, and she gets dog bite calls every few months. Every insurance company is different, but now they are getting to the point of no tolerance for these situations. Not happy for anybody involved.
 
Keep the doors locked so no one can enter the house unannounced. Explain to your child not to let anyone in until Bailey is contained. Ought to be simple enough.
Call the kids parents to check on his well being and explain that your child understands now and that you have a plan to keep it from recurring.

The dog is doing what is natural for her. I'd be very surprised if you can train her enough to trust that it wouldn't happen again. Containment seems the simplest choice to me.
 
jesse said:
This is why I have a lab.
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I have one too. Although he can be very territorial and will scare the crap out of some strangers. The issue is that he was raised at my house on 2 acres and we don't ever have strangers walking near the house. At my girlfriend's apartment, he can sometimes get very defensive if a stranger surprises him near the front door.

I've been worried he might bite someone but he's over four years old and never done it. Mostly he just stands his ground and barks very aggressively at whoever it is. Occasionally he's charged a person that surprised him but he always stops two feet short and barks. I've tried to break him of this but i'm not going to be able to. Part of me is glad he has this personality trait because he does make an excellent guard dog. My family's lab growing up was a sissy. I just keep him on a tight leash anytime i'm over there.

I've never, ever had an issue with him around friends/family members and he is welcome at all of my friend's homes and gets along really well with other dogs. He can go to the dog park and run around off the leash all day among strange people and animals and I never have an issue. On the street or any public areas he is very friendly to other people. At my house or my girlfriends place, if any of our friends come in unannounced he recognizes them and is friendly.
 
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cavmedic said:
My rescue , shep/greyhound mix has shredded my face twice. 80 or so stitches each time. Both times , I had my face right up next to his.

The first time he was sick and i leaned over to clean up his vomit , and the second time was playing with him and I got way to close .

He is a great dog
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These two statements do not go together.
 
They most certainly do. Stay out of his face and he is fine. That's his personal space. I wouldn't expect any dog or other animal to act any differently when you encroach that space. Get into my face, and get the same results.

Dogs are wild animals that have been attempted to be domesticated


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I wouldn't give you any specific advice about this, as it is so dependant on the specific animal. In some cases, crating the animal every time someone comes over can actually make it worse. They can start to associate guests coming with their being locked up and secluded from the rest of their pack. This is not to say that you can just stop crating him when company comes over. It's a process. (And no, I do not believe crate training is bad, or mean. In fact, I think it is great for dogs.)

My advice: get professional help.
 
cavmedic said:
They most certainly do. Stay out of his face and he is fine. That's his personal space. I wouldn't expect any dog or other animal to act any differently when you encroach that space. Get into my face, and get the same results.

Dogs are wild animals that have been attempted to be domesticated


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Really? A dog bites its owner (actually "shredded" your face-- your words, not mine.), requiring 80 stitches, not once, but twice, and that is compatible with saying its a "great dog"? Your definition of "great" is not the same as mine.

Well, to be fair, it depends on what you are looking for in this dog. If this is a working dog with a specific job, and he does it well (bomb sniffer, etc.), then I guess, maybe. I'll let a military dog handler answer that one. Family pet? No, I don't think so.
 
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cavmedic said:
They most certainly do. Stay out of his face and he is fine. That's his personal space. I wouldn't expect any dog or other animal to act any differently when you encroach that space. Get into my face, and get the same results.
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Nope... lots of dogs are happy to receive this sort of attention and would not bite their owner in the face. Or anyone else for that matter.
 
dell30rb said:
Nope... lots of dogs are happy to receive this sort of attention and would not bite their owner in the face.
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A stranger could carry my lab around by his tail and he wouldn't bite.
 
cavmedic said:
They most certainly do. Stay out of his face and he is fine. That's his personal space. I wouldn't expect any dog or other animal to act any differently when you encroach that space. Get into my face, and get the same results.

Dogs are wild animals that have been attempted to be domesticated
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Dogs don't have space. They aren't people. And there is little excuse of any kind for a dog to bite anyone. A dog in a pack that turns on the alpha can expect far worse than anything we'd ever do to it.
 
cavmedic said:
They most certainly do. Stay out of his face and he is fine. That's his personal space. I wouldn't expect any dog or other animal to act any differently when you encroach that space. Get into my face, and get the same results.

Dogs are wild animals that have been attempted to be domesticated


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using Tapatalk
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My dogs get up and move away if they feel someone is in their space. None of my dogs have ever bitten me or a family member (only the rescue dog I mentioned ever bit anyone), and any dog who would do that would also be out the door the next day, ie dead. That is just not acceptable.

After the rescue dog I had, there is just no comparison to a well-bred dog from a good breeder. I want a dog I can trust to behave well, and I am willing to pay for that. I feel terribly sorry for all the dogs that die in shelters, which is why I tried to save one, but it's not worth the risk to me because I have a small child and I cannot risk having a dog that bites.
 
bluee said:
I feel terribly sorry for all the dogs that die in shelters, which is why I tried to save one, but it's not worth the risk to me because I have a small child and I cannot risk having a dog that bites.
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I agree. I applaud those that rescue dogs from shelters. I know people that have rescued dogs and gotten great dogs out of it. But I will do my part by researching a breed that fits my family's life style, give it a good home, have it spayed or nuetered, give it the best of medical care, and never dump the animal off on someone else or a shelter. I didn't create the problem, and I can't fix it.
 
bluee said:
After the rescue dog I had, there is just no comparison to a well-bred dog from a good breeder. I want a dog I can trust to behave well, and I am willing to pay for that. I feel terribly sorry for all the dogs that die in shelters, which is why I tried to save one, but it's not worth the risk to me because I have a small child and I cannot risk having a dog that bites.
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I'm not necessarily sure its the breeding, but the upbringing. A dog that is taken from its mom and other pups at 7-8 weeks old and is then well cared for and begins training is just so much more likely to be an obedient and well behaved pet.

In a book I read about training hunting dogs (water dog), the author mentions he participated in a study where pure bred labs were trained for service dog work (for the blind). Intensive training starts at 1 year of age. Labs that were taken at the age of 7-8 weeks and then put into a household where the owner taught them basic obedience (crate training, sit, stay, fetch, lay down) made it through the program 90% of the time.

The dogs that started the intensive training at 1 yr that did not have this background (some would get taken from the mom at older or younger ages, and hardly receive any obedience training) only made it through the class 60% of the time.

The age at which they are taken into a household is a big factor.
 
PPC1052 said:
I agree. I applaud those that rescue dogs from shelters. I know people that have rescued dogs and gotten great dogs out of it. But I will do my part by researching a breed that fits my family's life style, give it a good home, have it spayed or nuetered, give it the best of medical care, and never dump the animal off on someone else or a shelter. I didn't create the problem, and I can't fix it.
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One day when I have more free time on my hands (and a big house) I would really like to have one or more rescue dogs.
 
Sorry to hear about the dog bite......

My gut feeling is in about 2 weeks you will be served papers claiming their son was grossly mauled and disfigured and they will be wanting 250,000 for pain and suffering...:rolleyes2:
 
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