Updating database Garmin 430W

stratobee

stratobee

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stratobee
There are certain things in this world that pique my interest and that I want to learn more about. Updating a GPS database is not one of them. When it comes to these things, I have more money than patience. In my newly procured aircraft, the 430W only has a partial database, and guess where the coverage stopped? You guessed right, the Western US states, i.e. home. This leads me to the conclusion I have to update the database or be forever doomed looking at a blank screen with the odd VORTAC on it. Former owner gave me the dongle thing so I can download some kind of database. But as I said, I'm so woefully uninterested in taking up any kind of brain capacity with this, that I'd rather have someone do it for me while I shower them in money.

So my question is - can any avionics shop do this? Or can you convince me it is simple enough to do by myself without inducing panic attacks and general rage? And how expensive is this database then to subscribe to from these leeching bloodsuckers?

God I hate all of this. If it was legal and didn't run the autopilot I'd chuck the thing out and have my ForeFlight be the only thing in there.:D:yes:
 
Or you could just exchange a card with a buddy if you are not maintaining current data.
 
I know it is easier to pay someone else to do it, but this is one of those things that really isn't worth it. I made the mistake of asking the avionics guy at the shop that was doing the annual on the Baron to update the database on my 430. Got charged $300 for a one time update (at least half of that was the shop labor rate). I think my whole yearly subscription with Jepp is about that much. For that kind of money it is just way too easy to do it yourself.
 
SCCutler said:
It is not tough.

You download the Jeppesen JSum software (no charge), from:
http://ww1.jeppesen.com/support/tec...nager (JSUM)&ostc=ostc00198wh&omnostcloc=lr18

Then, select your chart plan and purchase at:
http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com/main/store/legal/charts/ads-overview.jsp

That is for subscriptions.

You can also buy a single update by phone at 866-498-0213

The software works pretty simply. Takes about 15 minutes or so.
Click to expand...

Well that answers my question. I've been trying to find the one time update on the jepp website and it always offers me the year subscription as the only clickable product to purchase. Now I see I gotta call for the one time update. Let me guess....a disincentive to purchase the one-time product I take it...:rolleyes2:

Do you happen to know how much is the one-time update for half the US? Right now the subscriptions for a 400/500 series are $330ish for half the US and $400ish for the complete US.
 
If not mentioned already you also need the skybound unit ($50, I think) to interface with the card. This comes from Jepp. Also if it is a "W" you will need a separate subscription for the terrain. You also have to have an interface unit from Garmin to download the terrain info. If you are just doing VFR, try to find/borrow a skybound unit and buy a one time subscription every couple of years for the nav data. Then decide what you want to do about the terrain info.
The actual transfer of data once you have all the right stuff is approx. 10 minutes, depending on connection speed. It is not as bad as it sounds, just takes a little time to get through all of the one time hoops. Oh, and a credit card.
Hope this helps.
 
just pull the GPS from the panel, throw it and the dongle thingy in a box and send it to me.
You won't have to worry about those pesky overpriced updates or showering your avionics guy with money.

Problem solved.
 
Do it yourself. It's not a big deal, and the money that you save you can put towards your engine work.

I'm assuming that you plan on flying this thing IFR, so you'll need the subscription anyway to be legal.
 
stratobee said:
There are certain things in this world that pique my interest and that I want to learn more about. Updating a GPS database is not one of them. When it comes to these things, I have more money than patience. In my newly procured aircraft, the 430W only has a partial database, and guess where the coverage stopped? You guessed right, the Western US states, i.e. home. This leads me to the conclusion I have to update the database or be forever doomed looking at a blank screen with the odd VORTAC on it. Former owner gave me the dongle thing so I can download some kind of database. But as I said, I'm so woefully uninterested in taking up any kind of brain capacity with this, that I'd rather have someone do it for me while I shower them in money.

So my question is - can any avionics shop do this? Or can you convince me it is simple enough to do by myself without inducing panic attacks and general rage? And how expensive is this database then to subscribe to from these leeching bloodsuckers?

God I hate all of this. If it was legal and didn't run the autopilot I'd chuck the thing out and have my ForeFlight be the only thing in there.:D:yes:
Click to expand...

Monthly I update the garmin 796, garmin 530w and VoiceFlight. They are all so easy to do! Don't pay somebody to do this.....
 
I update the 430W in my club's Archer every 28 days. Anybody with a modicum of feeling for equipment can do it, it's a no brainer.

Buy 2 cards and update the card in the comfort of your den or office, then just next time you fly swap the updated card with the older one.
 
Yes. Do it yourself.

Got a question. I have a 430W in my plane now, and I'm buying another plane with a 430W in it.

Can I update just one card (one subscription) and swap it back and forth between units and it will work? Pardon the sidetrack and maybe dumb question....
 
txflyer said:
Yes. Do it yourself.

Got a question. I have a 430W in my plane now, and I'm buying another plane with a 430W in it.

Can I update just one card (one subscription) and swap it back and forth between units and it will work? Pardon the sidetrack and maybe dumb question....
Click to expand...

It will work; I imagine (not certain, just using common sense) doing so is not kosher with Jeppesen.
 
SCCutler said:
It will work; I imagine (not certain, just using common sense) doing so is not kosher with Jeppesen.
Click to expand...


I don't want to switch units and plug it in and start a self destruct sequence. :hairraise::D

I guess I'll be the guinea pig.
 
txflyer said:
I don't want to switch units and plug it in and start a self destruct sequence. :hairraise::D

I guess I'll be the guinea pig.
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I can say from observation that will not occur.
 
SCCutler said:
It will work; I imagine (not certain, just using common sense) doing so is not kosher with Jeppesen.
Click to expand...
You have to have the card installed to use it correct?

I don't think Jepp would have an issue with that since you can't use both units simulataneously. Now if you were somehow using the Jepp subscription to download an update and duplicate it across two cards, I can see that being an issue.
 
txflyer said:
Yes. Do it yourself.

Got a question. I have a 430W in my plane now, and I'm buying another plane with a 430W in it.

Can I update just one card (one subscription) and swap it back and forth between units and it will work? Pardon the sidetrack and maybe dumb question....
Click to expand...

The units will work fine switching cards, but legally you have to log the data card installation in the aircraft logs every time you "update".
 
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If you buy two cards and a subscription, I will program them for you and swap by mail.

Let me know by PM.

K
 
Clip4 said:
The units will work fine switching cards, but legally you have to log the data card installation in the aircraft logs every time you "update".
Click to expand...
This may be a silly question but I just bought my first airplane with a 430 installed and am doing my first update. Do you have to actually log it in the airframe log, or can you create your own separate log sheet for the GPS updates like a 30 day VOR check?
 
Interesting question about logging ... I "ass-u-med" that normal logging is still required, but in digging deeper in the FAA Ruling to authorize pilot maintenance actions on Page 71092, 3rd column, bottom half says (bold emphasis mine)

"Several commenters, including AOPA
and NetJets, were concerned about the
requirement for the pilot to record each
update in a maintenance logbook.
AOPA expressed concern that the
NPRM proposed a requirement that
would create a second recordkeeping
requirement and that the return to
service maintenance entry required by
§ 43.7 would need to be completed by
‘‘qualified personnel.’’ NetJets
recommended that the FAA specifically
state in the final rule preamble that no
aircraft maintenance entries or
signatures are required when pilots
perform aeronautical database updates.
We have considered the comments and
agree that it is unnecessary for the pilot
to make a record of the update.
Recordkeeping requirements for the
pilot have been eliminated. The current
regulations do not require pilot-owners
to record each update in a maintenance
logbook, and the absence of such a
requirement has not been problematic. "

Discuss?
 
gkainz said:
Interesting question about logging ... I "ass-u-med" that normal logging is still required, but in digging deeper in the FAA Ruling to authorize pilot maintenance actions on Page 71092, 3rd column, bottom half says (bold emphasis mine)

"Several commenters, including AOPA
and NetJets, were concerned about the
requirement for the pilot to record each
update in a maintenance logbook.
AOPA expressed concern that the
NPRM proposed a requirement that
would create a second recordkeeping
requirement and that the return to
service maintenance entry required by
§ 43.7 would need to be completed by
‘‘qualified personnel.’’ NetJets
recommended that the FAA specifically
state in the final rule preamble that no
aircraft maintenance entries or
signatures are required when pilots
perform aeronautical database updates.
We have considered the comments and
agree that it is unnecessary for the pilot
to make a record of the update.
Recordkeeping requirements for the
pilot have been eliminated. The current
regulations do not require pilot-owners
to record each update in a maintenance
logbook, and the absence of such a
requirement has not been problematic. "

Discuss?
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting that. I thought I remembered something along those lines not long ago, but didnt pay it too much attention since I didn't own a 430 at the time. Then Clip's comment had me wondering.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Thanks for posting that. I thought I remembered something along those lines not long ago, but didnt pay it too much attention since I didn't own a 430 at the time. Then Clip's comment had me wondering.
Click to expand...

Then I am updated too.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Now if you were somehow using the Jepp subscription to download an update and duplicate it across two cards, I can see that being an issue.
Click to expand...

I've heard rumors that there is actually a way to do that if you remain present during the programming phase. I haven't attempted to do so, as I only have one unit.
 
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Like everyone said, it's real simple. I just updated my 430W database yesterday, and it took 5 minutes.

I wish I had a second card--I had 2 when it was non-WAAS. I used to be able to update the 2nd card and switch when I went to the airport.
 
Unless something has changed recently you can only download to one card. For example in the Cheyenne we had two units. I had a subscription that allowed two downloads. Jepp does not care where you use the cards. You can share a card but you will not be able to update multiple cards.

If you have a "WAAS" as I stated before you have to have a special device similar to the Skybound that is purchased from Garmin in order to update the terrain cards and you have to have a separate subscription from Jepp for that information.

On a side note we also got our updates for the EX500 from Jepp. You don't need any special hardware such as the Skybound unit. A zip drive or thumb drive will work and you can share it with as many units as you want to. Not sure why that is different.

Edit: Yes the rules have been changed per the above post on recording the updates. I have never understood that requirement since it is obvious on what date the info was downloaded from Jepp and when the unit powers up it tells you the date of the installed database.
 
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EdFred said:
I've heard rumors that there is actually a way to do that if you remain present during the programming phase. I haven't attempted to do so, as I only have one unit.
Click to expand...

I too have heard this rumor
 
ronnieh said:
Unless something has changed recently you can only download to one card. For example in the Cheyenne we had two units. I had a subscription that allowed two downloads. Jepp does not care where you use the cards. You can share a card but you will not be able to update multiple cards.
Click to expand...
What prevents that?

Those that are suggesting using two cards are talking about alternating them every update to save extra trips to the airport.

For example, you have two cards; card A and card B. Card A is current and in the unit. At the end of the month, you update Card B and bring it to the airport and plug it in and then you bring Card A (now expired) home. Next month, you do the same thing. So you are updating two cards, but never have more than one card up to date at any given time.
 
ronnieh said:
Unless something has changed recently you can only download to one card. For example in the Cheyenne we had two units. I had a subscription that allowed two downloads. Jepp does not care where you use the cards. You can share a card but you will not be able to update multiple cards.
Click to expand...

If you just click "Start" and let the software do its thing that is correct.
 
Fearless, that is exactly what I said. One update, one card. Your service will show the number of updates available, depending on the number you have paid for. In my example (two downloads paid for per month) when I logged on it would show two available. Update the first card and it would show one available. Update the second card and it would show zero available. Once you download the info it is not there anymore for you to use again. You can of course update one card one cycle and the other card the next cycle if you have a single unit subscription.

Once you download it to your computer it is no longer available from Jepp. It is gone, zip, nada, ain't there no more. Once it is in your computer it will only download to one card and the info is gone from your computer. This is the simplest way I can state it.

Is there some nefarious way to defeat their software? Not a clue. I am no computer geek. However, the way I described it is the way it works or at least did for the proceeding six years. It is simple, just takes money.
 
ronnieh said:
Fearless, that is exactly what I said. One update, one card. Your service will show the number of updates available, depending on the number you have paid for. In my example (two downloads paid for per month) when I logged on it would show two available. Update the first card and it would show one available. Update the second card and it would show zero available. Once you download the info it is not there anymore for you to use again. You can of course update one card one cycle and the other card the next cycle if you have a single unit subscription.

Once you download it to your computer it is no longer available from Jepp. It is gone, zip, nada, ain't there no more. Once it is in your computer it will only download to one card and the info is gone from your computer. This is the simplest way I can state it.
Click to expand...
Ronnie, that isn't what I am saying.

I am talking about alternating updates per card.

Here is an example....it is July 1st now. Card A is in the 430 and it expired yesterday. I download the new update and install it on Card B. Tomorrow I go to the hangar and put Card B in the 430 and I bring Card A home. Next month, I download the new Aug update when it becomes available and install it on Card A. Then, the next time I go to the hangar in Aug, I swap the cards again. I am using two cards in the unit, but only Downloading and updating one card at any given time.
 
Of course you can. I have said that multiple times. You can only update one card on a particular subscription. Garmin does not give a hoot whose card it is or where it came from. The problem with your example is one of the cards is always out of date. If you have a single unit and two cards (a spare card) it is fine to do that. Does not work well if you have two GPS units.
The bottom line again is once you take the information from the Jepp site it is gone, you can not download that particular update again. Once you transfer the data from your computer via the Skybound to a card it is gone. You can not plug in a second card and download it also. One shot deal. Once you pull the trigger it is gone.

The discussion has morphed from the OP with the question of updating multiple cards from a single subscription. The answer is no you can not. You can alternate cards, heck you can have one card for each month but, ONLY ONE card will be current at any one time. I am not disagreeing with you. I was just answering the questions about multiple users from one subscription.

BTW if you are on a field with somebody that also has a WAAS unit you can save money by buying a subscription as I did with two updates per cycle. The second update is discounted. The way you can share the Skybound unit and each user have an update available each cycle. I believe the second update on the same account is discounted close to 50%. Just a thought.
 
ronnieh said:
Of course you can. I have said that multiple times. You can only update one card on a particular subscription. Garmin does not give a hoot whose card it is or where it came from. The problem with your example is one of the cards is always out of date. If you have a single unit and two cards (a spare card) it is fine to do that. Does not work well if you have two GPS units.
The bottom line again is once you take the information from the Jepp site it is gone, you can not download that particular update again. Once you transfer the data from your computer via the Skybound to a card it is gone. You can not plug in a second card and download it also. One shot deal. Once you pull the trigger it is gone.

The discussion has morphed from the OP with the question of updating multiple cards from a single subscription. The answer is no you can not. You can alternate cards, heck you can have one card for each month but, ONLY ONE card will be current at any one time. I am not disagreeing with you. I was just answering the questions about multiple users from one subscription.

BTW if you are on a field with somebody that also has a WAAS unit you can save money by buying a subscription as I did with two updates per cycle. The second update is discounted. The way you can share the Skybound unit and each user have an update available each cycle. I believe the second update on the same account is discounted close to 50%. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Erroneous - and you don't even need to be a computer geek to do it.
 
You may very well be right Ed. Like I said there may be some nefarious way of defeating the software. Never heard of a way. Never had a reason to consider it. My point is you can not do it with out stealing the service. Each month, one subscription, one card. That is the way it is sold by the people that own the service. I hope this horse has been sufficiently beaten.
 
ronnieh said:
You may very well be right Ed. Like I said there may be some nefarious way of defeating the software. Never heard of a way. Never had a reason to consider it. My point is you can not do it with out stealing the service. Each month, one subscription, one card. That is the way it is sold by the people that own the service. I hope this horse has been sufficiently beaten.
Click to expand...

It's like a speed limit sign on the highway. Can you go faster than 55/60/65/70/75? Yes. Are you supposed to? No.
 
In case it hasn't been mentioned in all the verbiage: If you have only one card, you can download the new database onto your laptop a couple of days before it becomes valid. Next time you go flying, you pull the card, fire up the laptop with the skybound and update the card in the 5min it takes for your pre-flight. Two cards of course make it more convenient.
 
Ed, you are 100% correct. I should have said, "No you can not legally nor ethically. I stand corrected.

Edit: Ed, I am curious. Since as soon as the data is down loaded from Jepp the counter immediately goes to "0" (with a single subscription).
When you are putting it on the card as soon as the card is checked it goes to the next screen with no way I know of to back up. Could you just share if you are saying it can be down loaded from Jepp a second time or is there a way to load it from the computer to a second card somehow. You have got me to think about it. The data disappears so fast I just can't see a way to get a second card into the Skybound and get it to start over after the data check. I can't think of a way to back up after the data check is complete?? Perhaps if you pull the card before the data check is complete and install a new card it would reset and try to install again?? However your first card would not be data checked which would cause me some concern. I am sure you know what you are talking about, just never thought about.

Second edit. How many people fly from an airport without internet service? Show up 15 minutes early and update before the flight.
 
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I had a 530W in one airplane and a 430W in the other airplane. I always updated the 430W database and put it in the 530W and put the put of date 530W database in the 430W. :D
If you have 2 WAAS units in one plane, they need to be on the same data cycle for them to cross-feed flight plans etc. At least that is what I have been told, I have never tried it. I know the GTN series will not cross-feed data unless the cards are the same. :mad2:
 
N747JB said:
If you have 2 WAAS units in one plane, they need to be on the same data cycle for them to cross-feed flight plans etc. At least that is what I have been told, I have never tried it. I know the GTN series will not cross-feed data unless the cards are the same. :mad2:
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If you need two databases, they do cut you a break. They give you a free clear-coat or something ;)
 
weilke said:
If you need two databases, they do cut you a break. They give you a free clear-coat or something ;)
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I just priced the databases for my new avionics, for the G600, GTN 650 and 750, it's around $900.00 for all three. :eek:
 
Thanks. I'm cleared up on that. My planes will each have one 430w. I can update either card in either plane, and swap them back and forth. But not both cards in both planes at the same time. I knew that, but my real question was if each card was proprietary to each unit specifically.

Answer is NO.

Any 430 NAV card will work in any 430, any time, with any update. Thanks guys....:drink:

And that was a good tip about the second subscription with a buddy .... :yes:

Alright! I don't have to buy another sub to fly my 180, or my RV8 current.... :rockon: I can't stand myself sometimes .... :rollercoaster:
 
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