Touch and Go Versus Full Stop - Which is Better?

[VWGhiaBob]

There's another thread on this, but it's different. My question is this: What's better: Practicing landings with full stop / taxi back OR touch and goes?

When I learned, I did only full stop / taxi back. Now that I'm getting "back in the saddle", the automatic assumption is touch and goes.

Reasons I like full stops better:

* Gives me a chance to "take a break" between landings, rather than immediately re-entering the frantic pattern at Van Nuys, where having 2 or 3 planes ahead of you...and perhaps a Citation beside you on final is the norm.

* Gives me a chance during that break to talk to my instructor or if solo, think about what I did right and wrong on the last landing and to prepare for the next one.

* Possibly safer to just land than to reconfig the aircraft while going 65 kts / hr.

Maybe it's just me. I'd be interested in other opinions and a poll.

 

[Old Geek]

I would have never learned to fly if I had to do full-stops every time. I had a horrible time getting my legs wired to my brain during the last 5 seconds of landing. The only thing that cured it was repetition.

 

[poadeleted20]

It depends on a lot of factors, so there is no one answer which is good for all situations.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

T&Gs, we average one cycle per .1 hobbs.

It's a better bang for the buck

It build quicker reactions/reconfigure times

Worked well for all my guys, tailwheel and trike alike.


Also found doing VERY low passes before introduction to touch and goes works wonders (especially in tailwheel).

 

[MAKG1]

What airplane do you fly with a stall speed of 65 knots? In a 172, you should be under 50 at touchdown, slow enough to set off the stall horn.

T&G's train for fair weather landings on wide runways. It's important to practice roll out and taxi techniques as well. You're not done flying until the wheels and engine are both stopped.

 

[VWGhiaBob]

MAKG - I learned in a 172 and PA28 but am transitioning to a Cirrus. Final approach is 75, with a very short flare (not a float machine like the 172's I've flown). Full stall with full flaps is 56, but in the real world, 60 is closer to average...so as soon as you hit the throttle, you're back up in the low 60's.

 

[Bob Noel]

it depends

 

[Captain]

T&G or Full Stop or Stop and Go.

Look at the runway length and DA. If neither are a factor then do whatever you bloody like.

I swear to god, this thread reminds me of 'white socks or blue socks...what should I wear???'

Just grow a pair and do it.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Flight students should do ALL landings to proficiency but, with a slight majority of T&Gs where applicable, for both pilot skills honing and maximizing hourly time/cost efficiency.

 

[C182P]

I swear to god, this thread reminds me of 'white socks or blue socks...what should I wear???'

Just grow a pair and do it.

How does one grow a pair of socks?

 

[jspilot]

I did stop and go's this weekend as where I rent from does not allow touch and go's for private pilots( or anyone without a CFI on board). The pattern was dead and the runway is 7,000 feet long do I just requested the option each time rather than taxing off the runway and all. I'd argue that, if training at a long enough runway these are the perfect option. They are essentially the same amount of time as a touch and go and are a lot safer. I found myself wanting to land precisely and come to a stop before a certain point on the runway as a challenge to myself and I never felt rushed as touch and go's often feel.

Plus stop and go's force you to execute the roll out portion of the landing- something lost if practicing touch and go's and an important part of any landing.

 

[Brad Z]

A touch n go is just a late stage go-around. It's needed just as full stop taxi backs. There's a time and place for everything.

 

[timwinters]

I did stop and go's this weekend as where I rent from does not allow touch and go's for private pilots( or anyone without a CFI on board). The pattern was dead and the runway is 7,000 feet long do I just requested the option each time rather than taxing off the runway and all. I'd argue that, if training at a long enough runway these are the perfect option. They are essentially the same amount of time as a touch and go and are a lot safer. I found myself wanting to land precisely and come to a stop before a certain point on the runway as a challenge to myself and I never felt rushed as touch and go's often feel.

Plus stop and go's force you to execute the roll out portion of the landing- something lost if practicing touch and go's and an important part of any landing.

^This^

The correect answer is not on the poll.

 

[Silvaire]

For the BULK of student training - Touch and Go because there is much more to learn about flying the pattern, reconfiguring the aircraft and making the approach than the intricacies of exiting the runway and taxiing back. Note also that there is a difference between Touch and go and Kiss and Go.

The only exception would be learning tailwheel but that wouldn't be the bulk of student training and given a decent runway length most tailwheel trainers would be fine with Stop and Go. But you do need to learn the transition from rudder to wheel steering.

 

[JHW]

For the BULK of student training - full stop taxi back, because like all things in life you will play like you practice. Making configuration changes while moving at high speed in close proximity to obstacles if far from a normal flight activity, and it should be treated as such.

 

[poadeleted20]

MAKG - I learned in a 172 and PA28 but am transitioning to a Cirrus. Final approach is 75, with a very short flare (not a float machine like the 172's I've flown).

172's are only "float machines" if you bring 'em in too fast. Slow them to 1.3 Vs0 on final (typically 55-60 KIAS) and use full flaps and it's no problem at all. It's only when you do something silly like fly final at 70 KIAS with two people, half fuel, and half flaps that they float like that.

 

[Skylane81E]

Add me to the "it depends" group

What do you need to work on? If you are weak on pattern work, the approach, or round out but fine stopping the plane touch and goes are great.

However Saturday when I was out practicing landings I was working on my short field landings and take offs so full stop was the choice that day. I did stop and goes at the airport with enough runway to do so and at the airport with the shorter runway I taxied back.

So in short I do all three depending on what I need to work on and prevailing conditions.

 

[Skylane81E]

172's are only "float machines" if you bring 'em in too fast. Slow them to 1.3 Vs0 on final (typically 55-60 KIAS) and use full flaps and it's no problem at all. It's only when you do something silly like fly final at 70 KIAS with two people, half fuel, and half flaps that they float like that.

172s are float machines when you forget that they are good short field performers with excellent slow flight capabilities. This weekend in my 182 operating very light (2100lbs or 172 weights) if I was on speed flaring just felt like I was aiming the mains at the ground without a major change in decent angle.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

...

The only exception would be learning tailwheel but that wouldn't be the bulk of student training and given a decent runway length most tailwheel trainers would be fine with Stop and Go. But you do need to learn the transition from rudder to wheel steering.

Touch and goes are MANADATORY for good Tailwheel training, the more cycles you get in the better. Touch and go didn't end until the Tailwheel touches the ground.

Also a small taildragger should able to operate out of a tiny strip, when I was first learning how to fly in a 7AC, it was out of a 2500' strip under 20' wide, plenty of room IMO

 

[steingar]

Tough and Go's are more difficult, require more energy management and landing ability (and do the go part if you're on the last third of the runway, for example).

 

[wabower]

No they're not. Nothing about touch and go's is better than stop and go's.

Touch and goes are MANADATORY for good Tailwheel training, the more cycles you get in the better. Touch and go didn't end until the Tailwheel touches the ground.

Also a small taildragger should able to operate out of a tiny strip, when I was first learning how to fly in a 7AC, it was out of a 2500' strip under 20' wide, plenty of room IMO

 

[poadeleted20]

Touch and goes are MANADATORY for good Tailwheel training,

In which FAA regulation is that stated? I can't seem to find it in 61.31(i):

(i) Additional training required for operating tailwheel airplanes.

• 
  
  (1) Except as provided in paragraph (i)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a tailwheel airplane unless that person has received and logged flight training from an authorized instructor in a tailwheel airplane and received an endorsement in the person's logbook from an authorized instructor who found the person proficient in the operation of a tailwheel airplane. The flight training must include at least the following maneuvers and procedures:
  • 
    (i) Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings;
    (ii) Wheel landings (unless the manufacturer has recommended against such landings); and (iii) Go-around procedures.
  (2) The training and endorsement required by paragraph (i)(1) of this section is not required if the person logged pilot-in-command time in a tailwheel airplane before April 15, 1991.

Or is that just an OPINION?

 

[LifeInverted]

Full stop taxi back seems like a long, laborious, and inefficient way to get a lot of practice landings in if you ask me

 

[poadeleted20]

Full stop taxi back seems like a long, laborious, and inefficient way to get a lot of practice landings in if you ask me

If you want practice LANDINGS and the runway isn't long enough for stop&go's, you don't have any other choice. If you want only to practice TOUCHDOWNS, then T&G's are more efficient, but in many cases, the real problems occur after the touchdown but before the landing is complete. In addition, if you want to conduct training on either landings or touchdowns, there's no way to do that effectively while the trainee is executing a climb-out and subsequent pattern/approach -- not enough attention remaining to listen to he instructor's teaching. So, there are good reasons for each, and it's all situations.

 

[steingar]

No they're not. Nothing about touch and go's is better than stop and go's.

If you're talking about land, come to a full stop and then take off from that spot you'll get no argument from me. But the subject under discussion is a full stop followed by back taxi and full field take off. Lots of full stop landings could not be done as T&G. Land to far and you can't do it. Thus the difference.

 

[NineThreeKilo]

No they're not. Nothing about touch and go's is better than stop and go's.

Wrong,

The more cycles the better, the part were people F' up is the transition between wheels first down and when your Tailwheel is down and your at a jogging pace, T&Gs put the student into that range for a longer time per Hobbs hour.

After teaching a boat load of tailwheel students from 0-CPL to be professional tailwheel pilots, it's worked great, not one of my guys ever got close to a groundloop, or anyother sketchiness


**By manadatory I didn't mean a FAR, meant getting chit done

 

[timwinters]

No they're not. Nothing about touch and go's is better than stop and go's.

^that^ x100

Well, maybe there's one thing that's better.

The chances of going to the hospital.

 

[wabower]

Was quality vs. quantity ever mentioned during your training?

Full stop taxi back seems like a long, laborious, and inefficient way to get a lot of practice landings in if you ask me

 

[NineThreeKilo]

^that^ x100

Well, maybe there's one thing that's better.

The chances of going to the hospital.

If a student can't demonstrate T&Gs without possibly ending up in the ER, he's sure as hell not ready to solo!!

 

[NineThreeKilo]

Was quality vs. quantity ever mentioned during your training?

WAY more quality in T&Gs, you need to react faster, you log more cycles (remember your FOI as to why that's important). A trained monkey can handle a aircraft at taxi speeds, heck I let student taxi on every discovery flight.

Stop and goes are great for the slow minded student or Hobbs minded instructor

 

[wabower]

Like quite a few other things you don't understand, it's not about getting it fast, it's about getting it right.

If the instructor isn't ahead of the student they're both in big trouble, so you can assume that all students will be slow-minded at first.

Insofar as the Hobbs is concerned, you have no idea which is more time-efficient. Based on your continued harping about Hobbs time it sounds like you need to upgrade your clientele.

WAY more quality in T&Gs, you need to react faster, you log more cycles (remember your FOI as to why that's important). A trained monkey can handle a aircraft at taxi speeds, heck I let student taxi on every discovery flight.

Stop and goes are great for the slow minded student or Hobbs minded instructor

 

[JHW]

Like quite a few other things you don't understand, it's not about getting it fast, it's about getting it right.

If the instructor isn't ahead of the student they're both in big trouble, so you can assume that all students will be slow-minded at first.

Insofar as the Hobbs is concerned, you have no idea which is more time-efficient. Based on your continued harping about Hobbs time it sounds like you need to upgrade your clientele.

friend of mine went from never having flown to solo in about 3 hours in my ercoupe. Never did a T&G. I don't know how much more time efficient you can get. OTOH I took over 300 hours to solo and also never did a T&G so maybe we'll blame all that taxiing.

 

[LifeInverted]

Was quality vs. quantity ever mentioned during your training?

Absolutely, and in the case of the landing pattern, quantity became quality. Repetition is bliss.

 

[wabower]

Have you ever wondered why night currency requires full-stop landings?

Absolutely, and in the case of the landing pattern, quantity became quality. Repetition is bliss.

 

[LifeInverted]

Have you ever wondered why night currency requires full-stop landings?

There's a difference in doing something to remain/regain current(cy), and learning to do something for the very first time

 

[poadeleted20]

Repetition is bliss.

No, ignorance is bliss, not repetition. Repetition has no value if it's not done right -- see the Law of Exercise in the AIH. So, in that regard, just doing something badly over and over gives you only the bliss of ignorance, and I see too many people doing decent touchdowns but lousy landings because they never really learned how to land, only to touch down, thank to their repeated T&G's.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Do what you need to do. If you need those extra minutes, then take them. If you need to use all your minutes for landing practice, then do that. I had an instructor that wanted me to get as much landing practice as possible, so we went to an airport with crossing runways and did t-n-g on one runway, land on the next runway clockwise for the next t-n-g. Really takes some concentration.

 

[redtail]

friend of mine went from never having flown to solo in about 3 hours in my ercoupe. Never did a T&G. I don't know how much more time efficient you can get. OTOH I took over 300 hours to solo and also never did a T&G so maybe we'll blame all that taxiing.

is that a typo

 

[Fearless Tower]

Touch and goes are MANADATORY for good Tailwheel training, the more cycles you get in the better. Touch and go didn't end until the Tailwheel touches the ground.

Considering the majority of TW accident/ground loops occur during the rollout AFTER the tail has come done and before coming to a complete stop, that is perhaps the silliest claim I have seen on this board.

 

[Warrior]

Have you ever wondered why night currency requires full-stop landings?

yes I have. I was thinking that the FAA thought that might be better but am not sure. Do you have an answer. I am a morning person and would prefer to zip through the 3 touch and goes at night rather than stop and go or taxi back in order to be night current.