Garmin Pilot Plates "Not Downloaded" @@#%^!

[airdale]

So I went out today with a friend as safety pilot. Punched up Garmin Pilot on my Nexus 7, entered the flight plan and went to pull up plates.

Every one was marked "not downloaded." WTF?!!?? ALL of them were downloaded last cycle.

Apparently, if you do not have current plates Garmin feels you are safer with no plates at all?

 

[LDJones]

So I went out today with a friend as safety pilot. Punched up Garmin Pilot on my Nexus 7, entered the flight plan and went to pull up plates.

Every one was marked "not downloaded." WTF?!!?? ALL of them were downloaded last cycle.

Apparently, if you do not have current plates Garmin feels you are safer with no plates at all?

Yep....it assumes expired updates are unusable. I try to update as soon as the new ones are available.

 

[Jay Honeck]

So I went out today with a friend as safety pilot. Punched up Garmin Pilot on my Nexus 7, entered the flight plan and went to pull up plates.

Every one was marked "not downloaded." WTF?!!?? ALL of them were downloaded last cycle.

Apparently, if you do not have current plates Garmin feels you are safer with no plates at all?

Sounds like Garmin decided that their chances of being sued are less if they follow the letter of the law, instead of common sense. Another casualty of our legal system gone wild.

 

[snoboy]

What's the proper procedure for obtaining approach plates? Do I have to make a binder for each airport?

 

[LDJones]

What's the proper procedure for obtaining approach plates? Do I have to make a binder for each airport?

No. Just pick the states or regions you want available when flying. You only need to create binders for special collections of plates you want to group together. I have one I named "Local" that has the approach plates for the local airports I use most frequently.

A cool feature of GP is it automatically creates binders for the departure and destination airports when you create a flight plan. We're lobbying ForeFlight for a similar feature.

 

[airdale]

Yep....it assumes expired updates are unusable. I try to update as soon as the new ones are available.

Jeez. Now I have to preflight the N7 to see if Garmin has stolen my plates.

I think the key word in your response is "try." I'll "try" too, but frankly the cycle dates are not top-of-mind for me.

This is really unacceptable. I noted a week or two ago that Hilton is recruiting for Android engineers. If he comes out with a good Android WingX, he'll have my business and GP will go into the toilet.

I wonder where else in the app is this flagrantly bad judgment going to appear next to screw us up?

 

[LDJones]

Jeez. Now I have to preflight the N7 to see if Garmin has stolen my plates.

I think the key word in your response is "try." I'll "try" too, but frankly the cycle dates are not top-of-mind for me.

This is really unacceptable. I noted a week or two ago that Hilton is recruiting for Android engineers. If he comes out with a good Android WingX, he'll have my business and GP will go into the toilet.

I wonder where else in the app is this flagrantly bad judgment going to appear next to screw us up?

Seriously? Not displaying expired charts is "bad judgment"??

So, would you head to the airport without looking at your charts to see: a) If you have the ones needed, and B) whether they're current??

I'm sorry but to me, that seems like the better argument for "bad judgment."

With EFBs the update process is pretty painless. I check the charts when I'm checking the weather and planning the flight.

I can definitely see the vendor's perspective in not wanting to display expired charts.

\

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Seriously? Not displaying expired charts is "bad judgment"??

So, would you head to the airport without looking at your charts to see: a) If you have the ones needed, and B) whether they're current??

I'm sorry but to me, that seems like the better argument for "bad judgment."

With EFBs the update process is pretty painless. I check the charts when I'm checking the weather and planning the flight.

I can definitely see the vendor's perspective in not wanting to display expired charts.

\

I'd rather see the chart, with a big red "EXPIRED" bar across the top to notify me that it isn't current.

 

[LDJones]

I'd rather see the chart, with a big red "EXPIRED" bar across the top to notify me that it isn't current.

Someone would bellyache about that, too. EFBs have made it so much easier and cheaper to fly with current charts...and pilots STILL find a way to try and use old data.

 

[Marauder]

Someone would bellyache about that, too. EFBs have made it so much easier and cheaper to fly with current charts...and pilots STILL find a way to try and use old data.

I always thought "old" data was "good" data if the information could be verified by other means (NOTAMS, Jepp update verbiage, etc.).

 

[airdale]

Seriously? Not displaying expired charts is "bad judgment"??

Absolutely!

First, from a UI philosophy point of view it is not the job of the vendor to tell the customer how to behave. An old bear once told me something that served me well in my career: "The customer may not always be right, but he is always the customer." Warning the customer is not only acceptable, it is desirable. But trying to control him is not.

To this specific instance of bad UI design, as TangoWhiskey said, a visible but not overwhelming red "EXPIRED" label would be the way to handle it.

So, would you head to the airport without looking at your charts to see: a) If you have the ones needed, and B) whether they're current??

For a serious trip, I print paper plates for airports on the flight plan. The EFB plates are backup because of their poor readability in bright light. I would still check for currency, especially after this unpleasant experience, but I don't view having recently expired plates as backups as that big a deal. Plates don't change that often and in extremis it is easy enough to ask ATC what the current revision is.

It is also fairly common for me to be at the airport and have a safety pilot ride pop up, as yesterday. PF had current plates, we were VFR/CAVU, and I just wanted to follow along, not realizing that some sanctimonious <expletive here> at Garmin had stolen my plates.

 

[LDJones]

I always thought "old" data was "good" data if the information could be verified by other means (NOTAMS, Jepp update verbiage, etc.).

And if the time isn't taken to have the unit automatically download the current charts, where do you think he/she will find all the information to verify the expired charts they're trying to use??

 

[snoboy]

No. Just pick the states or regions you want available when flying. You only need to create binders for special collections of plates you want to group together. I have one I named "Local" that has the approach plates for the local airports I use most frequently.

A cool feature of GP is it automatically creates binders for the departure and destination airports when you create a flight plan. We're lobbying ForeFlight for a similar feature.

I see now. The approach plate is opened from the binder titled destination which is automatically created from the flt plan. What if I need to divert in a hurry or emergency and head DIRECT>TO an airport. How do I get the plate up in that situation?

EDIT OK regardless if I hit direct>to the destination needs to be typed into the flight plan for the IAP to show up as a binder.

 

[Dynasty22]

On the IPAD, usually either shutting the program down or restarting the device has them magically re-appear.

 

[LDJones]

I see now. The approach plate is opened from the binder titled destination which is automatically created from the flt plan. What if I need to divert in a hurry or emergency and head DIRECT>TO an airport. How do I get the plate up in that situation?

EDIT OK regardless if I hit direct>to the destination needs to be typed into the flight plan for the IAP to show up as a binder.

On the map display press and hold on the airport you're diverting to. When the donut menu appears, press on the airport symbol, then on the little "I" info symbol in the top right corner. You'll be taken to the full airport info screen, with Procedures selected from the left hand menu.

 

[Steve Foley]

I wonder what happens if you're in the air when they expire.

 

[LDJones]

I wonder what happens if you're in the air when they expire.

If you've preflighted your device you'll have the current and next cycle already on the device and it will automatically switch to the new cycle.

 

[wsuffa]

What happens when you're at a back country airstrip or hiking with no internet connection for the period before they expire? Or on a remote island?

 

[LDJones]

What happens when you're at a back country airstrip or hiking with no internet connection for the period before they expire? Or on a remote island?

You got me. Go buy paper charts and enjoy your adventure!! Your iPad would be dead and unusable for the return anyways!

 

[airdale]

I am usually impressed by Garmin aviation tech support. I just received this:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hello,

Thank you for your feedback and for using Garmin Pilot.

I have forwarded this over to the developers and they are looking into the issue.

Here is their initial response to this issue.

"[FONT=&quot]It should not work like this. We should continue to show expired charts until there are more valid charts to show.

It sounds like they might have been looking at the charts from the airport browser.

This sounds like a bug and we'll look into it."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Russ Knuth[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Aviation Support[/FONT][/FONT]
---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[wsuffa]

You got me. Go buy paper charts and enjoy your adventure!! Your iPad would be dead and unusable for the return anyways!

Not if I were to plug it into the cigar lighter on the plane...

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Seriously? Not displaying expired charts is "bad judgment"??

Old charts are often better than NO charts, especially since many of them don't change for long periods of time. I've screwed up with paper and just asked ATC if "Amendment 3A" or whatever is still the current version. (It was - So the "expired" chart was just fine.)

I'd rather see the chart, with a big red "EXPIRED" bar across the top to notify me that it isn't current.

Like how ForeFlight does it?

 

[snoboy]

On the map display press and hold on the airport you're diverting to. When the donut menu appears, press on the airport symbol, then on the little "I" info symbol in the top right corner. You'll be taken to the full airport info screen, with Procedures selected from the left hand menu.

Sweet, thanks Jonesy. It's slightly different on the Android tablet but you get there the same way, from the airport info symbol on the donut.

Mike

 

[LDJones]

Sweet, thanks Jonesy. It's slightly different on the Android tablet but you get there the same way, from the airport info symbol on the donut.

Mike

Yep, the info button is on the bottom in the Android version, if I recall, but still available.

 

[snoboy]

Not if I were to plug it into the cigar lighter on the plane...

Bill If I were you I'd pack along a Honda EUi1000 generator along with a DirecTV dish and DVR. Then you'll have access to the internet and you'll aways have current charts while on the island. Or... make sure your not on the island when the charts cycle. Does the island even have IAPs?

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Like how ForeFlight does it?

Yup!

 

[airdale]

Update from Garmin:

-------------------------------------------
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hello,

The developers were able to duplicate what you were experiencing on a couple of devices and they are working on a bug fix that should be available for download soon.

Russ Knuth
Aviation Support[/FONT]
-------------------------------------------

Pretty good service, IMHO!

 

[snoboy]

Update from Garmin:

-------------------------------------------
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hello,[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The developers were able to duplicate what you were experiencing on a couple of devices and they are working on a bug fix that should be available for download soon.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Russ Knuth[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Aviation Support[/FONT]
-------------------------------------------

Pretty good service, IMHO!

Pretty darn good!

 

[Marauder]

Russ must be the go to man at Garmin. He was also the one who figured out my GTN not accepting database updates.

 

[airdale]

Today I downloaded Ver. 2.3.4

The release notes indicate that the expired plates problem has been solved, so that's less than two weeks from the bug report to the bug fix. Impressive.

Unfortunately, I don't have any expired plates right now so I can't test the fix.

 

[ChesapeakeJohnny]

Russ has always been very responsive to my queries as well. This forum is proving a decent QC medium for Garmin!

Today I downloaded Ver. 2.3.4

The release notes indicate that the expired plates problem has been solved, so that's less than two weeks from the bug report to the bug fix. Impressive.

Unfortunately, I don't have any expired plates right now so I can't test the fix.