W99 Wave Camp

1200AGL

1200AGL

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jul 20, 2010
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149
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Santa Barbara, CA
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Display name:
Paul
Today is day 3 of glider camp at Grant County Airport (W99) in Petersburg, WV. It has been lots of fun and a tremendous learning experience for a fledgling glider pilot.

On Saturday, I had my first mountain wave encounter. We towed through rough rotor to 8000 ft. It was the sportiest tow I've experienced so far; I've never seen a tow plane jerk around like that. The g-meter peaked at almost +4 and -3.5g from the turbulence. The negative g bumps threw dust and dirt from the floor all over the cockpit.

Once we were in the wave it was completely smooth. Pointing into the wind at minimum sink airspeed, we had a ground speed of 8-9 knots. My flight logger created 3 files because we had a sustained groundspeed of 0 at times and it thought the flight had completed (I fixed that configuration setting this morning). When turned downwind, the groundspeed was over 90 knots. We climbed up to about 10,300 feet east of the Dolly Sods plateau in 0-3 knot lift before a restroom call was in order. Landed with winds at 280 28 gusting 40 knots on runway 31. The approach felt like an elevator. It really got my adrenaline going.

Yesterday, I took a solo sightseeing flight scratching in narrow, disorganized thermals.
 

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Sounds awesome.

Do you have any more info on that airport? I saw on american air campers assoc. you can camp there. Was thinking about flying up for an evening and camping / trying to catch some trout in that river. (pics of river would be appreciated.. is it too deep for wading?)

Is there a soaring club there where I might be able to get a demo ride? Never been in a glider.
 
dell30rb said:
Sounds awesome.

Do you have any more info on that airport? I saw on american air campers assoc. you can camp there. Was thinking about flying up for an evening and camping / trying to catch some trout in that river. (pics of river would be appreciated.. is it too deep for wading?)

Is there a soaring club there where I might be able to get a demo ride? Never been in a glider.
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There is a wave camp going on this week at Marion, NC. Not sure how far that is from you but it is not unheard of for them to be able to get diamond altitude gain there (5000 meters from low point to high point).

Check out www.letsgogliding.com and the links from there to find a glider operation near you!
 
Sounds fascinating and I'm jealous. I've been out in the heated shop futzing with my LP-49 getting it ready for condition inspection.
 
Leaving Windwood a few years ago in the C172, Lee and I made sure to check our seatbelts after the first hit of turbulance coming over the ride. I know everything else was well shuffled around :D

Sounds like a lot of fun!
 
WoW .. Sounds like an incredible ride ! Nice write up..
 
tonycondon said:
cool!! did you stay warm?
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Yeah. Solar heating did the trick and I didn't even need gloves. I didn't get much above 10k though. I felt my feet just starting to get cold by the end of the flight though.

dell30rb said:
Do you have any more info on that airport? I saw on american air campers assoc. you can camp there. Was thinking about flying up for an evening and camping / trying to catch some trout in that river. (pics of river would be appreciated.. is it too deep for wading?)

Is there a soaring club there where I might be able to get a demo ride? Never been in a glider.
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I have been camping since Friday night. You can see the pavilion in the pictures that I just attached. The river is just behind that. They say there is great trout fishing there. It is best to call Larry Stahl at the airport if you are thinking of camping so he can turn on the water and heat. There is hot water, showers, and the restrooms are heated, so it has been great. Very clean.

I don't think there is a soaring club here. Larry has a 180hp STOL Skyhawk that is used for towing.

dmccormack said:
You flew in WV on Saturday?

Yeah... flying the lees side of WV in winds over 30 is work!
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I've learned this weekend that flying through rotor is the price to be paid to get into the wave...
 

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1200AGL said:
I have been camping since Friday night. You can see the pavilion in the pictures that I just attached. The river is just behind that. They say there is great trout fishing there. It is best to call Larry Stahl at the airport if you are thinking of camping so he can turn on the water and heat. There is hot water, showers, and the restrooms are heated, so it has been great. Very clean.
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Awesome, I'll be up there sometime in the next few weeks then...
 
Good day so far today. I took a dual instructional flight and we managed to top out the wave window (FL230). That's the first time I've been on oxygen and the first time I've been in Class A airspace in a glider. The tow was the roughest I've experienced to date. Violent, but worth it to get into the wave.

Another club member got his Gold climb altitude and is trying right now to get his Diamond climb.
 
nice, the coveted eastern diamond. how lonely did it feel at 230?
 
I will stay away to avoid killing the wave for you. Have fun!
 
tonycondon said:
how lonely did it feel at 230?
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It was like the view from a seat on an airliner looking down on the smokestacks at Mt. Storm Lake with smoke streaming out horizontally and the ski slopes at Canaan Valley.

And it was surreal tacking in ~70kt winds aloft at altitude yesterday with a near zero groundspeed, flying hands off (because the wave is laminar and perfectly smooth), all while climbing at 200-500 ft/min in an aircraft with no engine. The slightest control input could be felt.

This was the first gathering of glider pilots that I've attended and I learned something from everyone there. One pilot is a meteorologist and I got the short course in identifying and analyzing mountain wave conditions by looking over his shoulder.

We disassembled the K-21 and I got home late last night. I think I'm experiencing withdrawal symptoms this morning.
 
Lance F said:
I will stay away to avoid killing the wave for you. Have fun!
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Thanks. We'd show up on your TCAS if you did pass by, though: the glider has a Mode S transponder as well as a radio, and we were cleared by Center into the wave window.
 
1200AGL said:
It was like the view from a seat on an airliner looking down on the smokestacks at Mt. Storm Lake with smoke streaming out horizontally and the ski slopes at Canaan Valley.

And it was surreal tacking in ~70kt winds aloft at altitude yesterday with a near zero groundspeed, flying hands off (because the wave is laminar and perfectly smooth), all while climbing at 200-500 ft/min in an aircraft with no engine. The slightest control input could be felt.

This was the first gathering of glider pilots that I've attended and I learned something from everyone there. One pilot is a meteorologist and I got the short course in identifying and analyzing mountain wave conditions by looking over his shoulder.

We disassembled the K-21 and I got home late last night. I think I'm experiencing withdrawal symptoms this morning.
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nice. glider camp is a lot of fun, total immersion and lots of learning going on by everyone involved, not to mention all the fun!
 
dell30rb said:
Awesome, I'll be up there sometime in the next few weeks then...
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I'd give Larry Stahl a call. I'm sure he'd give you all the details on the fishing situation (I'm not really qualified to answer). He's a character, one of those people you feel fortunate to have met. I never made it out to the river since it usually was dark when I was at the campground. There is also electricity there, and on a few occasions I could get a WiFi connection from the FBO building when sitting under the pavilion (line of sight), but don't count on it.
 
tonycondon said:
i'm guessing this is you? http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=2207179

Didn't know you were flying with Shane, he's such a nice guy! I flew with him in the Capstan at IVSM 2009, we *almost* got silver altitude gain over Harris Hill before I thought I had to land to catch a flight.
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Yup. That's me. I decided to break in my new flight recorder and try out OLC yesterday.

Shane is a great guy and an incredible glider pilot and instructor. He organized the trip, too. On that flight, he had the controls when aggressively working the chaotic lift in the rotor to contact the wave. It was a sight to behold (those tight turns in the trace once off tow). I'd have been on the ground 5 minutes later in that position. One day, I hope to be able to read the rotor and do that.

tonycondon said:
Did the other guy get Diamond altitude??
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The lift topped out at 21.3k when he flew 20 minutes later and he was running short of daylight, so he wound up a tiny bit short of the diamond.
 
1200AGL said:
Thanks. We'd show up on your TCAS if you did pass by, though: the glider has a Mode S transponder as well as a radio, and we were cleared by Center into the wave window.
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No, I meant personally I should stay away. I'm just unlucky when it comes to wave. I made numerous trips to Colorado to get that darned third diamond. Never happened. Definitely a hole in my flying cv.
 
dell30rb said:
Was thinking about flying up for an evening and camping / trying to catch some trout in that river. (pics of river would be appreciated.. is it too deep for wading?)
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I finished sorting through my pictures and it turns out that I got one of the airport and river (attached). The campsite is to the left of the runway.

Lance F said:
No, I meant personally I should stay away. I'm just unlucky when it comes to wave. I made numerous trips to Colorado to get that darned third diamond. Never happened. Definitely a hole in my flying cv.
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Yeah, wave sure is an elusive form of lift. There was probably more time spent on the ground looking at forecast soundings than flying last week.

denverpilot said:
This one time... at glider camp...
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:)
 

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That is cool stuff, Paul... had no idea you could find that kind of wave action that far east. I think I know where I will go when I feel ready to get into that sort of thing!
 
Sean you might also check into the wave camps at Mt. Washington in New Hampshire and Mt. Mitchell in North Carolina. Last year at Mt. Washington one pilot got all three diamonds (5000 meter gain, 300 km declared flight, 500 km total distance) in one flight.
 
tonycondon said:
Sean you might also check into the wave camps at Mt. Washington in New Hampshire and Mt. Mitchell in North Carolina. Last year at Mt. Washington one pilot got all three diamonds (5000 meter gain, 300 km declared flight, 500 km total distance) in one flight.
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What kind of fun is that? It's not supposed to be easy.
 
i think that guy had been going to mt. washington and waiting and trying for years to get the triple diamond flight.
 
Lance F said:
What kind of fun is that? It's not supposed to be easy.
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I got caught in a big downdraft recently approaching mitchell from the east. Air was smooth as butter, I was going full throttle 80kt climb in a lightly loaded warrior II and was going down at 500fpm at 8000ft... winds aloft were 60 kts
 
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tonycondon said:
i think that guy had been going to mt. washington and waiting and trying for years to get the triple diamond flight.
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Yeah. Yeah. That's the way it should b.. :D
 
dell30rb said:
I got caught in a big downdraft recently approaching mitchell from the east. Air was smooth as butter, I was going full throttle 80kt climb in a lightly loaded warrior II and was going down at 500fpm at 8000ft... winds aloft were 60 kts
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next time just speed up to get through the sink faster and then when you get into the "up" of the wave turn to track crosswind to climb back up fast.
 
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rottydaddy said:
That is cool stuff, Paul... had no idea you could find that kind of wave action that far east. I think I know where I will go when I feel ready to get into that sort of thing!
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It was explained to me that the Dolly Sods plateau is the main wave generator there. I heard the claim made that there is mountain wave about 50% of the time in late February. I think there were 3, maybe 4, wave days while I was there, one rain out, and one sled ride day (still beautiful scenery to fly in, though).

Front Royal is several wavelengths downwind of the plateau. Even 50 nm to the west, we usually get a handful of workable weekend wave days there every year. Last Saturday was one of them, but my skills weren't enough to get the 1-36 into it...
 
tonycondon said:
next time just speed up to get through the sink faster and then when you get into the "up" of the wave turn to track crosswind to climb back up fast.
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Flying a PA-28 like a glider?

Sure, i'll give it a try!
 
well if you can't climb you are a glider no matter how much horsepower up front
 
dell30rb said:
Flying a PA-28 like a glider?

Sure, i'll give it a try!
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Come out to the Rockies in the summer. There are times I could have soared the 'kota in the late morning thermals. It's throttle back, nose down and watch the VSI still going up. It's pretty normal to go looking for ridge or thermal lift in mountain flight.

I've never tried the mid-afternoon summer thermals and have heard all sorts of advice that it wouldn't be a good idea.
 
dell30rb said:
Flying a PA-28 like a glider?

Sure, i'll give it a try!
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"Fly fast in sink" is definitely the right move even in a powered aircraft. And you can gain altitude in such a plane with lift alone, for sure.

I've sat in the right seat while one of the club members (a very experienced soaring pilot) did just that. Didn't shut down the engine, but we were gaining altitude by circling in a thermal with very little power.

Cool, but not as impressive as Bob Symons working the Owens Valley wave out of Inyokern in a P-38 (!) with both props dead and feathered, for over an hour, seeing as much as 3000 fpm up... or Harland Ross who, in the same area but flying a stock Cessna 140, climbed from 6,000 to 23,500 in eight minutes. :eek:

Then there's this guy, in his Taylorcraft... sure it's light, but it's no glider. the glide ratio is quite poor, and the descent rate at its minimum-sink speed is probably higher than most gliders. But he found a thermal that was going up faster than he was going down; that's all it takes.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-u-MCDi7Gk
 
We packed up the K-21 this afternoon and a bunch of club members are headed down to W99 in Petersburg, WV now. I'm planning to get there by the time of the first launch tomorrow morning.

I haven't looked at the model soundings at all--I'm going regardless. Hopefully the mountain wave will be working sometime this week.
 
awesome!! let us know how it goes. we're going back to Talihina next weekend...i'm hoping for more wave. its an addiction.
 
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