Hourly fuel cost to fly a Cessna 150?

kimberlyanne546

kimberlyanne546

Final Approach
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Kimberly
Hello,

I was going over the Coast Guard reimbursement rates for private pilots and everything under 200 horsepower was like 40 - 50 per hour.

This list was at least 5-15 years old, I guess the government doesn't update the prices much.

While I do realize that the people in the air don't do it for the money, I wonder how much they are out of pocket.

One day in the distant future, I might get a plane and fly it for them. Most flights are 5 hours, with one 30 minute fuel / rest stop in the middle for the mission.

Question:

1. How much (roughly) does it cost to fly a 150 per hour - gas only?

2. How much per hour if you also include oil and those types of things?


Many thanks for your answers.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Question:

1. How much (roughly) does it cost to fly a 150 per hour - gas only?

.
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Geez Kim.... You should know the fuel burn of a 150 and also the going rate of 100LL out there...... Gallons X Price = fuel cost per hour.:yes:


My guess is a 150 is burning 5.5-6 an hour X 6.00 bucks a gallon = 33.00 to 36.00 an hour in fuel costs... :dunno:
 
N801BH said:
Geez Kim.... You should know the fuel burn of a 150 and also the going rate of 100LL out there...... Gallons X Price = fuel cost per hour.:yes:


My guess is a 150 is burning 5.5-6 an hour X 6.00 bucks a gallon = 33.00 to 36.00 an hour in fuel costs... :dunno:
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I wouldn't even know where to look for fuel prices. Also I'm not sure how often people replace the oil since if I'm lucky I fly an hour or two a month and have never needed to add any.
 
This is also related to a conversation I had last night (long story).

But yeah, sure, I own a POH at home for a Cessna 150. I could do the math based on that but I wanted real world answers from people who have owned them and kept track of costs over time since the POH is a guideline.

I just wanted to figure out how much they cost to operate. If it is under $40 per hour that's great. Many pilots fly much more powerful planes and still get only the $40 or $50 per hour so I'm sure they are not breaking even.

I haven't started training so I don't know how many planes we have in the fleet or what kinds they are. I know some are two seaters, some are four, and some are six (all single engine). I know we have at least one and perhaps as many as three multi-engine planes too.

Kimberly
 
Most planes should not be burning more than a quart of oil every 10 to 15 or even less. If it is, there is probably an issue. Oil changes are typically every 25 to 50 hours, depending on how often it is flown, but I wouldn't think that oil changes would be part of that $40 to $50 an hour. Most planes under 200 HP burn 10 GPH or less, when leaned correctly, so it wouldn't be off by much.
 
kimberlyanne546;1036764.....I haven't started training so I don't know how many planes we have in the fleet or what kinds they are. I know some are two seaters said:
Hmmm...


Let me get this straight....

You are training for missions related to the USCG,

in their aircraft,

and they want you to pay for fuel ??

?:dunno::dunno:.
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A rule of thumb* is to divide the HP rating by 10 then half that.

(100HP / 10) / 5 = 5 GPH
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm...


Let me get this straight....

You are training for missions related to the USCG,

in their aircraft,

and they want you to pay for fuel ??

?:dunno::dunno:.
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Ben (or should I call you sweetie?)

No.

Post numero uno says:

"I was going over the Coast Guard reimbursement rates for private pilots . . . . "

So:

1. These are private pilots. They own the planes. I have not yet seen the planes.

2. The Coast Guard reimburses them as volunteers with pre-determined missions. Most missions are scheduled in advance through the USCG and AUX and are 5 hours. Anything over that time will not be reimbursed unless extended due to a pop up SAR that happens during the mission.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Ben (or should I call you sweetie?)

No.

Post numero uno says:

"I was going over the Coast Guard reimbursement rates for private pilots . . . . "

So:

1. These are private pilots. They own the planes. I have not yet seen the planes.

2. The Coast Guard reimburses them as volunteers with pre-determined missions. Most missions are scheduled in advance through the USCG and AUX and are 5 hours. Anything over that time will not be reimbursed unless extended due to a pop up SAR that happens during the mission.
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Thanks for clearing that up..............

When I see the wording " many planes we have in the fleet" I assume the planes belonged to the USCG.

And.... no need for the "sweetie " thing.. That phrase only travels one way, not the other..:D;)
 
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N801BH said:
Thanks for clearing that up..............

And.... no need for the "sweetie " thing.. That phrase only travels one way, not the other..:D;)
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Whatever, dude, you totally owe me one for researching your door! All the pilots at the meeting were really wondering why I needed to understand the inner workings of a Pilatus hangar.

Anywho, I am beginning to understand what we will be doing but I don't want to "guess" and my first mission / training in the air probably won't be until next year around March or April (after the pilot / observer ground school is over). I can then compare it to CAP once I understand what they do on their flights. I have a rough idea of what we'll do and some of it surprised me and was pretty cool.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Whatever, dude, you totally owe me one for researching your door! All the pilots at the meeting were really wondering why I needed to understand the inner workings of a Pilatus hangar.

..
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Agreed... I do owe ya for researching the "door thing". FWIW... I have been through the CAP and some other programs, that at face value looks like a kool thing to do, only to find out they just mine the "new guy/gays" for enthusiasm so they can get someone to do the crap work.... I applaud your spunk, I just hope you don't get taken advantage of...:nonod:..

Peace...

Ben.
 
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N801BH said:
Agreed... I do owe ya for researching the "door thing". FWIW... I have been through the CAP and some other programs, that at face value looks like a kool thing to do, only to find out the mine the "new guy/gays" for enthusiasm so they can get someone to do the crap work.... I applaud your spunk, I just hope you don't get taken advantage of...:nonod:..

Peace...

Ben.
Click to expand...

How far past the new guy stage did you get in each of your organiztions? How long did you stay? I don't feel like they are doing that to us - yet - but I haven't even become trained or qualified. In fact, in our intro they said this only started 5-10 years ago and since then 150 or more people went through to the ground school stages. Currently, less than 9 are performing the in-air duties (such as observer). So they see a lot of new faces come and go. If anything, they are waiting for my newbie enthusiasm to fade.... since they've seen it so many times before and then everybody leaves.
 
Kim, being that USCG-AUX is a 501c3, the aircraft owners may or may not also be gaining a tax benefit.

Whether or not that's legit is between them, their tax professional, and the IRS.

But some things are certainly tax deductible, and would be factored into a complete cost analysis.

Example: I'm sure your required uniforms are tax-deductible.

Keep all receipts when doing work for them. Maybe some year your tax pro will find them useful if you make enough money to itemize deductions.

I am not a tax pro, and don't play one on TV.

I have *heard* of folks writing off entire ratings. The thought process goes like this...

An additional rating is a requirement to obtain additional organizational ratings/titles.

Education expenses for education required for a particular job "promotion" within a 501c3 non-profit are tax-deductible with various exceptions.

You decide. I am not giving tax advice. But just another example.

Another one, folks writing off the unreimbursed portion of flight expenses to maintain currency, especially if the currency requirements are above and beyond FAA currency requirements.

The list of things one might discuss with a professional is long. The list of things a professional may be willing to agree are deductible and sign their name to is probably shorter.

If said professional is an Attorney and believes they can make the case for whatever they signed, before folks they see regularly in the local IRS office, longer. Ha.
 
denverpilot said:
Kim, being that USCG-AUX is a 501c3, the aircraft owners may or may not also be gaining a tax benefit.

Whether or not that's legit is between them, their tax professional, and the IRS.

But some things are certainly tax deductible, and would be factored into a complete cost analysis.

Example: I'm sure your required uniforms are tax-deductible.

Keep all receipts when doing work for them. Maybe some year your tax pro will find them useful if you make enough money to itemize deductions.

I am not a tax pro, and don't play one on TV.

I have *heard* of folks writing off entire ratings. The thought process goes like this...

An additional rating is a requirement to obtain additional organizational ratings/titles.

Education expenses for education required for a particular job "promotion" within a 501c3 non-profit are tax-deductible with various exceptions.

You decide. I am not giving tax advice. But just another example.

Another one, folks writing off the unreimbursed portion of flight expenses to maintain currency, especially if the currency requirements are above and beyond FAA currency requirements.

The list of things one might discuss with a professional is long. The list of things a professional may be willing to agree are deductible and sign their name to is probably shorter.

If said professional is an Attorney and believes they can make the case for whatever they signed, before folks they see regularly in the local IRS office, longer. Ha.
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My tax professional? You think I make enough money to hire a CPA? I'm like a 1040EZ type - one or two W-2 forms or perhaps a 1099 here and there. Nothing more.

Oh and I googled it - the standard deduction for single is over $5,000 now - so unless my uniforms cost me more than $5,000 each year it is not worth it to save reciepts.

I've already done between 5 - 10 "tax deductible events" such as drive 4 hours each month round trip to the meetings. But even at 0.555 cents per mile, I'd have to drive a lot more.

So I thought about it:

A) take the standard deduction.

B ) Keep careful logs and save every receipt, then spend hours adding it all up at the end of the year, only to fall short of the $5,000.

I chose B. They do make me fill out (haven't done it yet) a monthly form regarding my hours, miles, and receipts. This gets sent to the government to show our worth but I get the feeling not everyone fills out the forms. As volunteers they can't "make you" fill them out. And you can't get "fired" for not doing it.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
This is also related to a conversation I had last night (long story).

But yeah, sure, I own a POH at home for a Cessna 150. I could do the math based on that but I wanted real world answers from people who have owned them and kept track of costs over time since the POH is a guideline.

I just wanted to figure out how much they cost to operate. If it is under $40 per hour that's great. Many pilots fly much more powerful planes and still get only the $40 or $50 per hour so I'm sure they are not breaking even.

I haven't started training so I don't know how many planes we have in the fleet or what kinds they are. I know some are two seaters, some are four, and some are six (all single engine). I know we have at least one and perhaps as many as three multi-engine planes too.

Kimberly
Click to expand...

Fuel alone for a C152 ought to run between $20 (4gph @ $5/gal) and $36 (6gph @ $6/gal). If you own the plane you'll also be paying for oil changes tires, vacuum pumps, and a few other operational expenses that should amount to something like $4-6/hr. And unless you start with a low time engine and sell the plane before it gets past mid-time you will eventually need to cover the overhaul cost which you could amortize for another $6-8/hr. So your total (eventual) out of pocket expenses should run between $30 and $50 with $5-6 of that deferred for several years.

The fuel cost will be affected by the mission requirements. Loitering at minimum power requires about half the fuel/hr as cruising at max speed. You can also affect your other costs by performing some of the maintenance yourself (or getting a friend to do it for you).

Obviously a 152 is one of the least expensive commercially produced airplanes to operate. Moving up to to a a 172 probably adds another 25-30% and a big retractable 6 cylinder single with 4-6 seats could easily double that. The light twin I fly (Beech Baron) probably costs me a bit more than $200/hr (after the first hour that runs around $15k). My other airplane (a 65HP ragwing taildragger) costs me about $25/hr to fly not counting the $2500-3000 consumed whether or not I fly it.
 
gismo said:
The fuel cost will be affected by the mission requirements. Loitering at minimum power requires about half the fuel/hr as cruising at max speed.
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:yeahthat: The C-150 can be pretty frugal at lower power settings.
 
Hi Kimberly. If you are just trying to judge fuel cost, I have a C-150H (1968 model year) that I have checked book calculations versus actual on two or three 2-2.5 hour trips. If you use the time to climb tables, allow for taxi, etc., the values (at least in my experience) calculated from the POH match very closely to what I had to pay for at the pump. Remember to lean when you get in the air, and I think you will find the book values very close. I have also checked "gross" fuel burn based on a trip I do frequently, filling up at my home airport, flying to an airport that is 68 nm away, landing, then taxi and takeoff there and fly back home then fill back up. I do both fill-ups, so the fuel both times is right at the cap. The fuel burn runs under 6 gph, usually about 5.5 to 5.6. This will probably give you good enough information to judge what your cost would be.

Edit: I usually run at 2550 rpm at about 2,500 msl, leaned to highest rpm.
 
MadseasoN said:
A rule of thumb* is to divide the HP rating by 10 then half that.

(100HP / 10) / 5 = 5 GPH
Click to expand...

why don't you just divide HP by 20?

and your formula either needs to divide by 2 or multiply by .5
 
1976 150M, 200 hour engine, burns no oil between oil changes, (50 hours tach) and burns between 6 and 6.25gph at 2500 rpm on XC's.
 
6-1/4????
The E models I used to fly typically did between 4-1/2 and 5 (Continental O-200s)

You aren't talking about the 152s with the Lyc O-235s are you?
 
I assume you fill out reimbursements after every trip. It seems common sense to me to just top the plane off if you can before you launch, then after the trip fill it up again and see what you burned. Then you wil know what you paid for that case and expense accordingly.
 
Kim -- let me put it this way.

If you bought a C150 and kept it here in Nebraska where things are cheap...as a private single owner..you'd be doing good if you kept your total operating cost at $100/hr.

Once you add up hangar, insurance, random maintenance, fuel oil, upgrades, engine reserve, etc. Things get expensive.

Think of it this way -- if all you're doing is a coast guard flight a month there is no way you'd be better off owning a C150 then just renting one. The above wasn't even considering the cash out-lay you made to acquire it.

Once you hit 100-150/hr a year you might break even with owning vs renting ignoring the purchase cost. Start talking 200/hr a year and you'll probably be saving money owning purchase cost included.

Just my opinion.
 
oldShar said:
6-1/4????
The E models I used to fly typically did between 4-1/2 and 5 (Continental O-200s)

You aren't talking about the 152s with the Lyc O-235s are you?
Click to expand...

I'm talking about a continental O-200. If I go buzz around locally at 2300rpm or shoot landings it'll be 4.5-5 gph, but during a long cross country with 2.5 hour legs @ 2500rpm it'll burn just over 6 gph leaned out at about 3,000ft.
 
tonycondon said:
why don't you just divide HP by 20?

and your formula either needs to divide by 2 or multiply by .5
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A lot of people can't divide by 20 - or don't know they can. Almost everyone can divide by 10 and by 2.

Very few people know that they can multiply by 0.5.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm...


Let me get this straight....

You are training for missions related to the USCG,

in their aircraft,

and they want you to pay for fuel ??

?:dunno::dunno:.
Click to expand...

USCG Auxillary, there is some reimbursement, but all Aux equipment is member owned and supplied.
 
jesse said:
Kim -- let me put it this way.

If you bought a C150 and kept it here in Nebraska where things are cheap...as a private single owner..you'd be doing good if you kept your total operating cost at $100/hr.

Once you add up hangar, insurance, random maintenance, fuel oil, upgrades, engine reserve, etc. Things get expensive.

Think of it this way -- if all you're doing is a coast guard flight a month there is no way you'd be better off owning a C150 then just renting one. The above wasn't even considering the cash out-lay you made to acquire it.

Once you hit 100-150/hr a year you might break even with owning vs renting ignoring the purchase cost. Start talking 200/hr a year and you'll probably be saving money owning purchase cost included.

Just my opinion.
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Exactly. And many of these people fly out of expensive airports and pay for a hangar. Those guys are paying more than $100 per hour in reality.

Like you said, doesn't make any sense for me right now, but I'm talking about the future. It may take me a year or two of effort just to be an observer and I need 200 (copilot) PIC hours or 500 (pilot) hours to do anything else. By that time they may retire the "copilot" position and you can't be a "pilot" without owning your own plane or having an owner say you can fly theirs (said owner might be in the plane, for example, sitting next to you, as an observer but I HIGHLY DOUBT anyone will let me fly their airplane).

My checkride was at 90 hours, only 10 of which were PIC. I'm up to something like 140 hours now which means in a year I've only done 50 hours. Their training said dual doesn't count so in class I raised my hand and pointed out that dual is very healthy (meaning getting training after PPL to work on things). Or dual means you're getting checked out in new planes. They said I'd have to ask the head folks, they weren't sure if my MANY dual / PIC hours after PPL would count. This is sad since I like hiring CFI's. I'm hoping they are wrong and ALL PIC TIME counts.
 
Regardless of the answer, let's say I average between 30 - 50 PIC hours per year.

Let's say right now I only have 60 PIC hours.

That would mean it will take me a minimum of 3 years to get to copilot level. Probably more like 5 years.

Who knows if I will still be in the CGAUX then.

So I'm just happy to see if I like the observer thing, since I'll be right next to the pilot and able to see what that person does.
 
Our club at Boeing Field KBFI, in Seattle (Alternate Air Inc) regularly keeps 3 150s going for $75/hr wet, plus TAX which puts it to about $82/hr. They're kept on expensive, city airport tie-downs too, and it includes all expenses, apparently even keeping the owner running the whole show!

The rates were even lower until a small rate hike recently for rising fuel costs. The 172s are a little more. Doing it over 15 years now.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
Our club at Boeing Field KBFI, in Seattle (Alternate Air Inc) regularly keeps 3 150s going for $75/hr wet, plus TAX which puts it to about $82/hr. They're kept on expensive, city airport tie-downs too, and it includes all expenses, apparently even keeping the owner running the whole show!

The rates were even lower until a small rate hike recently for rising fuel costs. The 172s are a little more. Doing it over 15 years now.
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Now I really know my 80 / hour 150 is a good deal where I rent!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Now I really know my 80 / hour 150 is a good deal where I rent!
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Yup. And I wasn't saying "your tax advisor" as if everyone has one. Just the standard legalese regarding such stuff. My tax advisor some years is me sitting in my big leather chair with papers and IRS documentation spread around me so badly one would have to have Moses part the Red Sea to extract me from it all. Usually right around then, I need to pee.

Here's what stuff generally runs around here, rental-wise.

http://www.aspenflyingclub.com/fleet.htm

Interesting, a lot of stuff has changed on that list since I last looked at it. $135/hr for a 10 hour block in the 182RG is below cost... Definitely. Note the enormous price break on the non-GPS equipped Skyhawks too... If you can fly without a magenta line you can save yourself mega-bucks. Enough to buy paper charts. Haha.

The sneaky "value" that most people miss on that list is the Warrior. Denver is so Cessna-centric at flight clubs, that airplane doesn't fly that much, which is dumb. If I were still renting, I'd be on that like white on rice at $90/hr for a bump around for fun airplane. $15 below the cheapest LSA on the list, and $9/hr less than the DA-20s.

Of course, if its Cirri you want... There's a plethora of them 200 yards away...

http://www.ia-kapa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/IA_Rate_2012-11-20.pdf
 
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