Planes collide at Tokyo’s Haneda Airport

Ed Haywood said:
Zero casualties. Res Ipsa Loquitur.
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18 Minutes in a burning airplane is a very long time. I don't know about JCAB but FAR requires carriers to demonstrate a full evac in 90 seconds or less. In this accident only three slides were usable so one might expect the required time to be significantly longer--maybe 4 minutes. Perhaps there are lessons to be learned here. Quid pretium pro asino
 
Roger Wilco said:
18 Minutes in a burning airplane is a very long time. I don't know about JCAB but FAR requires carriers to demonstrate a full evac in 90 seconds or less. In this accident only three slides were usable so one might expect the required time to be significantly longer--maybe 4 minutes. Perhaps there are lessons to be learned here. Quid pretium pro asino
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The 90 seconds using 50% of the emergency exits certification is the same everywhere, but to me has little relevance compared to a real-life situation.
According videos the first passenger exited the aircraft about 7 minutes after they came to a stop.
 
Spinka said:
According videos the first passenger exited the aircraft about 7 minutes after they came to a stop.
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Inability to shut down a running engine may explain part of that delay.
 
People sitting in exit row seats that shouldn’t be sitting in exit row seats?
stultus populus
 
I would imagine the crew of the CG airplane had been pretty busy flying the previous few days due to the earthquake, I wonder if fatigue played a role in this.
 
Vance Breese said:
It may be time for you to step away from the mirror skyking3286 and speak for yourself.

I don’t know anyone who would stop to get their carryon luggage with a cabin filled with smoke and fire outside the windows.

Many evacuations from airlines have gone well in the USA.
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Some have not gone well.

Not in the US, but there have a couple where people were videoing instead of exiting and those not videoing were getting their carry ons.
 
cowman said:
I've had the experience of trying to locate an airport on a clear VFR night in a mid-sized city and simply not being able to pick it out of the absolute sea of bright lights. I had a GPS pointing me right to where it was, I knew the distance, it was right in front of me and my brain simply couldn't sort it out from all the other lighting in the area. It doesn't surprise me at all that the landing aircraft didn't pick out the aircraft on the runway out of all the lights at that busy commercial airport.
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I had the same experience. I was going into KIAH many years ago. I could not accept the visual as I could not pick out the runway. I was cleared for the ILS and about a 2 mile final, I finally picked out the airport. It was the sea of darkness surrounded by the bright lights of the city.
 
JAL has very high standards of crew training. From what I am reading, the delay was deliberate and in compliance with their procedures and training. Rather than panic and open all the doors and put people into a fireball, they used the intact fuselage for protection while they evaluated each exit for safe egress. Again, zero fatalities and no serious injuries reported. The results speak for themselves.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Technically the airport had brake lights in the form of Stop Bar lights before entering the runway. You aren't allowed to enter the runway if the stop bar lights are flashing red.

Unfortunately, they were NOTAM's out of service that night......
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I was thinking more for the airplane on final rather than the one taxiing up.
 
cowman said:
I've had the experience of trying to locate an airport on a clear VFR night in a mid-sized city and simply not being able to pick it out of the absolute sea of bright lights. I had a GPS pointing me right to where it was, I knew the distance, it was right in front of me and my brain simply couldn't sort it out from all the other lighting in the area. It doesn't surprise me at all that the landing aircraft didn't pick out the aircraft on the runway out of all the lights at that busy commercial airport.

We don't know everything yet but it certainly seems like the Coast Guard aircraft was somewhere it wasn't supposed to be. I can't remember the specific incidents off the top of my head but I am certain I've heard of very similar things happening before. I believe it lead to some airports having systems that allowed them to track aircraft on the ground. I also can't help but think of foreflight enunciating every time I enter a runway.
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I’ve found that looking for a dark spot helps. There are a lot of lights on the airport, but they are different than the surrounding city lights and the airport property appears as a dim spot.
 
Ed Haywood said:
JAL has very high standards of crew training. From what I am reading, the delay was deliberate and in compliance with their procedures and training. Rather than panic and open all the doors and put people into a fireball, they used the intact fuselage for protection while they evaluated each exit for safe egress. Again, zero fatalities and no serious injuries reported. The results speak for themselves.
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It will be some time before the investigations are complete and findings are released. As a basis for comparison, many airlines (including my own) train their cabin crew to autonomously conduct an evacuation under such circumstances. Yes, everyone onboard JL516 survived and we can be deeply grateful for that. In the next accident, wherever and whenever it may occur, only a few minutes may be available to escape before the cabin environment becomes unsurvivable. Precious seconds may mean the difference between life and death.

It's interesting to note (as many have) the role that cultural differences played in this evacuation. Passengers from many other countries, upon discovering that their aircraft has lurched and shuddered to a halt in a pool of flames and the cabin is filling with smoke, are likely to force the issue by initiating their own evacuation before the crew has a chance to reach for the PA handset.
 
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Groundpounder said:
I would imagine the crew of the CG airplane had been pretty busy flying the previous few days due to the earthquake, I wonder if fatigue played a role in this.
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While the news is mostly focused on the spectacular images of the burning Airbus, this may be overlooked. The Coast Guard crew was conducting relief efforts for victims of the devastating earthquake that occurred just days prior. The death toll of that quake may exceed 200, and the deaths of the CG crew only compound the tragedy--a "terrible irony" as Tarheelpilot stated. Your conjecture that fatigue may have played a role in this accident is quite plausible.
 
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Vance Breese said:
It may be time for you to step away from the mirror skyking3286 and speak for yourself.

I don’t know anyone who would stop to get their carryon luggage with a cabin filled with smoke and fire outside the windows.

Many evacuations from airlines have gone well in the USA.
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Just because you don't "know anyone" that would prioritize their luggage over the lives of other passengers...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1539419268902789121

 
3393RP said:
Just because you don't "know anyone" that would prioritize their luggage over the lives of other passengers...
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Indeed. It has been a problem in numerous evacuations. In one incident I know of, F/As were relieving passengers of their carry-ons as they reached the exit, until the mounting pile of rollaboards threatened to block the aisle.
 
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