From what I have read so far, they only ask about the past two years of medical history? I had a substance abuse problem with painkillers for several years and voluntarily went to a medical detox facility / rehab about a year and a half ago. My question is, can I just wait until two years have passed and not worry about having to disclose this? If what I read is true and they only ask about your past 2 years then it sounds like I can avoid a lot of headaches by waiting a little longer before I apply. Does anyone have any experience with this or know someone with a similar situation? When it comes to past addiction problems do they ask for a longer history? I have never gotten into any trouble with my addiction, no one other than myself and a few close people even knew about it. I just don't want to put myself in a bad position with the FAA if it can be avoided altogether. Any advice would be appreciated!
Passing Medical with past drug addiction.
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there is an entire anonymous forum here on POA devoted to medical issues. I’d try there.
Mason
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There are 3 Doc's here who are experts on this topic.
"18.n. Substance dependence; or failed a drug test ever; or substance abuse or use of illegal substance in the last 2 years. "Substance" includes alcohol and other drugs (e.g., PCP, sedatives and hypnotics, anxiolytics, marijuana, cocaine, opioids, amphetamines, hallucinogens, and other psychoactive drugs or chemicals). For a "yes" answer to Item 18.n., the Examiner should obtain a detailed description of the history. A history of substance dependence or abuse is disqualifying. The Examiner must defer issuance of a certificate if there is doubt concerning an applicant's substance use."
You also have to list all visits to health professionals in the past 3 years, not 2.
dbahn
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Sorry, 18(n) on the MedXpress application asked if you have EVER IN YOUR LIFE had substence dependence of substance abuse, both of which are obviously part of addiction. The "last 2 years" refers to illegal substances.
Lindberg
Final Approach
To be more specific, the 2 years reporting limitation is on mere use, not abuse or addiction. Certification is possible with past abuse and addiction, but difficult. Easier to choose one of the options for flying without a medical certificate.
dbahn
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Yeah, for instance if you were Bill Clinton and didn't even inhale and it was over two years ago you'd have to report it but would probably get certified.
Lindberg
Final Approach
If it was over two years, you wouldn't have to report it.
This was the answer I was hoping for, however, it seems others say there is a question that asks if you have ever been addicted to to anything. The other side of this is the facility I went to only accepted cash, therefore it was not processed through my insurance. So I wonder if there is even a record of it. I read another form that said you can fly LSA without a medical unless you have been denied a 3rd class at any point. So now I am debating if I should just forget about trying to get a medical altogether and buy an LSA aircraft. The guys in my glider club say there have been talks from the FAA regarding a possible increase in the weight and HP restrictions for the LSA class to include a larger variety of planes but who knows if this is true or not.
My use was legal, I was being prescribed a powerful opiate for many years after a motorcycle accident. But unfortunately, that drug doesn't care if its being prescribed or obtained illegally. If you take it long enough you will develop an addiction which makes it nearly impossible to quit without help. I just got to the point where I would rather deal with the pain than be reliant on a substance just to not feel like ****. Withdrawal is a real thing, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
I was taking the medication as prescribed, unfortunately, it was a high dosage and I took it for several years which still resulted in chemical dependency.
Thank you, I am new to the site and not familiar with all the forums or how to find them but I will check it out!
Excellent, it would be great to get some advice from a medical professional within the aviation community!
dbahn
Pattern Altitude
That concept will go absolutely nowhere with the FAA. And if you fail to report the condition and the doctor visits you are subject to significant federal penalties. And don't forget about the potential "snitch" avenue. Someone with a grudge against you, and even someone with a genuine concern that a former addict is flying makes a call to the FAA hotline and you're doomed.
The FAA takes this very seriously, but they do provide an avenue (very complex, time consuming, and expensive) for certification.
You mentioned withdrawal. Technically, withdrawal falls into substance dependence since the FAA uses DSM-IV criteria.
It’s likely your medical history can be certified, but you’ve got to understand one thing: lying (by omission) on the medical application is a federal felony. Don’t turn a medical certification problem into a legal problem. That certification is likely to take a long time (a year or more) and may take several thousand dollars, without a guarantee of success.
You can avoid the medical cert application process with sport pilot.
Hopefully @bbchien, @lbfjrmd, or @WingmanMed will drop by for competent medical apllication advice.
That is correct.
Also correct. It's now expected the FAA will announce the final rule sometime in mid 2025, google "FAA MOSAIC".
Daleandee
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Fly Light Sport & enjoy life. If you decide later that you need more than comes with a Light Sport Certificate you will likely have more understanding of how the system works and whether you really want to deal with the FAA medical process or not.
If MOSAIC ever gets off the ground it, supposedly, will give light sport pilots access to larger & faster airplanes but they will still be limited to one passenger.
If MOSAIC ever gets off the ground it, supposedly, will give light sport pilots access to larger & faster airplanes but they will still be limited to one passenger.
I'll add that, while flying LSA you can get a consult with a HIMS AME and start the process of record gathering, recovery meeting documentation, 14 in 12 months urine drugs screens and HIMS Psychiatric eval and have all your ducks lined up so when you apply for your medical, and get deferred then denied (which will happen), the process will flow much quicker. Still, expect an 18-24 month process and probably close to 10K in expenses. I had documented long term sobriety (over 13 years) when I started without any idea that I should have consulted with a HIMS AME first and it took nearly 18 months to get a special issuance for a class 3.
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were you DIAGNOSED as addicted and had withdrawal symptoms, or is this a self-assessment?
George S
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First off, I want to commend you on taking care of your issue by voluntarily going to treatment and getting the help you needed. The FAA however will not care about this. If you disclose your past history of opioid use you are going to be waiting bare minimum 18 months before you get a medical if they even issue you one but in my opinion I think it will be 24-30 months. If I were in your situation I would go for sport pilot for now. However, you also didn’t go thru insurance and paid cash so that’s a factor I would consider as well.
dbahn
Pattern Altitude
That works well if you are dealing with a condition that might be coded for insurance and done in error, e.g. relationship couseling gets coded as anxiety. I don't see how showing up at an addiction treatment center for anything other than addiction gets you past that pitfall, and not reporting it at all is fraught with a huge risk of long term consequences.
Hi George, Thank you for your advice. It definitely wasn't easy. The Dr. tried tapering me off a few times but I simply couldn't miss work long enough to get through the withdrawal. The medical detox was a life changer for sure! I think I am going to stick to LSA for now, as you and many others have mentioned. And it sounds like the LSA category is going to be expanding drastically in 2025 if the FAA MOSAIC goes into effect. If this happens I would be very content with light sport for the foreseeable future.
No, i dont believe there was ever an official diagnosis. I told my Dr. I wanted to stop taking the medication and he tried to taper me off the meds on 2 different occasions. However, I could never get enough time off work to get through the withdrawal. After doing some research online I came across this medical detox procedure where they put you under anesthesia for 24hr while forcefully detoxing your body so you sleep through the worst of it. I was back to work the following week. But I don't think there was ever any kind of official diagnosis.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hate to rain on your Rationalization.
That's not gonna hunt. A Kennedy detox has a huge insurance footprint. Trying to hide that (it will fail) is compounding your situaiton with a class 4 felony. To do that, if insurance paid, you have to have a diagnosis. So, you have a diagnosis!
Full evaluation. No Bueno.....
That's not gonna hunt. A Kennedy detox has a huge insurance footprint. Trying to hide that (it will fail) is compounding your situaiton with a class 4 felony. To do that, if insurance paid, you have to have a diagnosis. So, you have a diagnosis!
Full evaluation. No Bueno.....
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I am not planning on lying to the FAA so there's no need to "rain" on anything
Furthermore, As I had mentioned previously, this place did not accept insurance of any kind. It was cash only. They said that insurance companies don't think this type of procedure is necessary due to the very high cost compared to a normal detox. This is very unfortunate because not many people have that kind of disposable income, and it could really help a lot of people.u said u don’t want to report it. whats the difference between not reporting it and lying to the faa.I am not planning on lying to the FAA so there's no need to "rain" on anything
2-Bit Speed
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Not applying for a medical?
Lindberg
Final Approach
He's said he didn't want to report it if it can be avoided. I see no where he suggested lying to the FAA. Either way, advising him to not lie to the FAA (duh!) and then putting the period there, doesn't really advance the ball, does it?
Sport pilot doesn’t require a medical, so there’s no way to report that if the OP chooses that path.
he was trying to see if he could get a ppl even though he had been in rehab for opiates. sport was presented as an alternative.
Absolutely, the last thing on my agenda is to ring the FAA's bell, haha! I mean, who would voluntarily subject themselves to that, right? The real motivation behind my original post was more about navigating the FAA's labyrinthine application process with finesse.
I reached out to seasoned aviators for some sage advice on the ins and outs of the application journey. Rumor had it that the FAA's memory only stretches back two years when it comes to medical history - If this turned out to be true, it was an option I was eager to explore.
So, instead of rushing headlong into the paperwork whirlpool, I figured I'd gather some intel first. It's all about timing, after all - why spill the beans prematurely when a few extra months could have made all the difference?
And hey, if your ability to follow this post is any indication of your aviation skills, maybe I'd be better off staying on the ground, haha!
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do i need to report that i went to a medical facility for opiate addiction.
uh what do u think? no, of course not. why would u nees to report addiction to powerful drugs that is as recent as 18 months ago. why would the faa care about someone newly clean flying an airplane?
and u r worried about me flying? ahahahahaha.
uh what do u think? no, of course not. why would u nees to report addiction to powerful drugs that is as recent as 18 months ago. why would the faa care about someone newly clean flying an airplane?
and u r worried about me flying? ahahahahaha.
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
FAA memory is "have you ever in your life"......and if you think being "kennedy" withdrawn for addiction isn't a mental disorder, well go ahead but the felony will ruin your life....even more than already.
You need to google 27 pilots indicited....4 delta pilots indicted.....6000 pilots under investigation...
None of those guys who say the FAA's emory is 2 years long have the foggiest idea of whaty they're talking about.
And they won't be there when the inspector general comes for you.....and you pay $$$s to "lawyer up" and lose.
But, SGOTI said, "I could omit after 2 years....." YGBKM.
You need to google 27 pilots indicited....4 delta pilots indicted.....6000 pilots under investigation...
None of those guys who say the FAA's emory is 2 years long have the foggiest idea of whaty they're talking about.
And they won't be there when the inspector general comes for you.....and you pay $$$s to "lawyer up" and lose.
But, SGOTI said, "I could omit after 2 years....." YGBKM.
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You said this a couple of times. Let's put it to rest. From the MedXpress User Guide: 10.8 Medical History Section (Item 18) The Medical History section contains: Item 18 Medical History - Have you ever in your life been diagnosed with, had, or do you presently have any of the following?
Item 18.n. Substance dependence or a failed drug test ever; or substance abuse or use of illegal substance in the last 2 years.
The question asked by the FAA is: Have you ever in your life been diagnosed with, had, or do you presently have
* Substance dependence
* failed a drug test
* substance abuse
* or, if none of the above, have you used an illegal substance in the last 2 years.
In your own words, you sought treatment because of withdrawal symptoms. That is squarely substance dependence. You can only answer yes to this question. That will be a deferral (not issued in office) and require the FAA to gather a lot of facts (medical records) and independent professional assessments of your condition with no guarantee of issuance.
Or, go sport pilot.
Lindberg
Final Approach
What the OP will find if he googles those things is that none of the examples are similar to his situation. We should stop pretending that the FAA actually has a mechanism in place to systematically catch airman who lie on medxpress. It doesn't. Maybe it will someday, but not today. Yes, there are ways omissions can come to the FAA's attention, but they're exceptions rather than the rule.
No one should lie on the form. But if you tell people not to lie because they'll get caught, then you're not really giving them a reason because the overwhelming majority of pilots who omit things will actually not get caught, as things stand today.
Might you have some advice for this airman on what it would take to get certified with his history?
bbchien
Touchdown! Greaser!
What airmen learn when they google, is that lying is a class 4 felony. Lindberg, in a hard drive society SOMEONE has the information and it will out. In this case if he was able to get this done privately ( a "kennedy detox) it's somewhat nefarious as it involves some very hard to get meds (if not a hospital).
I do not engage with airmen who intend to lie/evade. I just don't. Life is worth more than that.
And if I am engaged and I subsequently discover lying, the file is terminated.
I gave the answer on the 25th, at 7:45 pm: "full evaluation".
And HE NEEDS TO STOP POSTING HERE.
I do not engage with airmen who intend to lie/evade. I just don't. Life is worth more than that.
And if I am engaged and I subsequently discover lying, the file is terminated.
I gave the answer on the 25th, at 7:45 pm: "full evaluation".
And HE NEEDS TO STOP POSTING HERE.
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Are you really this acerbic, terribly mean.
He never got close to implying he would lie. He came here to get clarity and he did about “ever in your life” language. He said LSA sounds right for him given what he learned = appropriate. Why are you treating him or talking down to him like a degenerate?
Sorry to go off track with this, but so many of your responses in this forum are literally just mean. I don’t get it and I guess I snapped, so there.
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unsafervguy
En-Route
don't forget, if he was on them that long, insurance or not, there is a very long prescription record for a schedule 1 narcotic. im sure the FAA could find that real easy.
dbahn
Pattern Altitude
I don't think so. Schedule 1 drugs can't be prescribed.
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