Cirrus steps up to the plate

Cirrus accident rates statistically over the last couple of years have been lower than the GA average. I will look for the stats. But this is due to training through Cirrus and COPA. Now with this program they are trying to address those Pilots that buy a TAA high performance single for big bucks yet don't pay for good standardized instruction. I think accident rates will fall lower because of this initiative.
 
You don't seem very attentive to details. I didn't say you run your plane that way. I said that you're arraignment makes it cheaper to run the engine hard to minimize time and there's no incentive to find cheap gas. Wayne pointed it out before me and you still don't seem to get it; nor do you seem to have read his next post properly either.
Whatever.....do you really know the safeguards we may have in our operating agreement? No. You make assumptions.
 
Jealousy is the only way to describe the attitude some have towards Cirrus owners/pilots and of course the plane itself. I will say though, it is fun to read some of the foolish comments they make. "Cirrus pilots are ill informed"... Lol
 
Jealousy is the only way to describe the attitude some have towards Cirrus owners/pilots and of course the plane itself. I will say though, it is fun to read some of the foolish comments they make. "Cirrus pilots are ill informed"... Lol

Again you play directly into the Cirrus pilot stereotype. Nope not jealous. Already have a fast(er) high perf single. Yep, could afford a Cirrus. Yep I've flown one. But tell me it isn't ill informed to buy a six figure airplane without checking out competing models...


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Another foolish comment.... Cirrus pilots "buying six figure airplane without checking out competing models"
 
Another foolish comment.... Cirrus pilots "buying six figure airplane without checking out competing models"

Yeah except I've had two pilots tell me that's exactly what they did. And I know of a third. And those pilots are foolish. Just the facts. I'm sure it happens with 172s too. But you're all showing your oversensitivity to deny that this has sometimes been the result of successful Cirrus marketing. Not foolish comment, factual statement.

Do you think it's a good idea to spend six figures without comparison shopping? That's what you're implying. And I was clear this isn't all pilots, and that I have no criticism of someone that chooses one in an informed way lol. But quoting out of context is more fun I guess.


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So why so defensive?


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I only read the first dozen or so post before I determined this is a troll thread.
But it wasn't the OP that was doing the trolling. It is everyone else.

But that's what he gets for posting an aviation related topic on PilotsfacebookofAmerica.
 
Hey if I could afford a high end Mercedes, a nice sweater, and a Hublot watch, I'd buy a Cirrus too! Assuming it could land on grass, carry 1300 useful, and had 6 seats. Otherwise I guess i'll go with the 210...
 
Hey if I could afford a high end Mercedes, a nice sweater, and a Hublot watch, I'd buy a Cirrus too! Assuming it could land on grass, carry 1300 useful, and had 6 seats. Otherwise I guess i'll go with the 210...
I feel the same way. But I don't understand why that causes all the Cirrus bashing. Jealousy maybe?

Of course, it isn't a Bonanza, but it's not a bad plane.
 
I feel the same way. But I don't understand why that causes all the Cirrus bashing. Jealousy maybe?

Of course, it isn't a Bonanza, but it's not a bad plane.

The funny thing is I don't think I've ever detected jealousy in someone critical of Cirrus. But it is a convenient way to put down people who have different opinions!

I commend what they are trying to do as a company, both in growing Ga and safety. But not thrilled with their marketing, and not a fan of the SR22 airframe. Have actual reasons, and def not envy. Now if someone will let me fly their Cirrus jet I can tell you if I'll develop some envy!


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Different likes in airframes and planes is perfectly fine. No question. It's people talking out of their butt that is the problem.
 
Do you think it's a good idea to spend six figures without comparison shopping? That's what you're implying.

I personally don't think its a good idea or a bad idea. It's their money, and their needs/desires - who are you, or anyone else, to judge.

Its true in any endeavor. If someone wants a Corvette, they want a Corvette - no need to begin a spreadsheet comparing every conceivable sports car. Wasted effort if they already know what they want.

My Cirrus was my second choice, after the Diamond TwinStar which was having trouble coming to market in 2003. Glad I didn't wait for that diesel fiasco, comparison shopping notwithstanding.
 
I personally don't think its a good idea or a bad idea. It's their money, and their needs/desires - who are you, or anyone else, to judge.

Its true in any endeavor. If someone wants a Corvette, they want a Corvette - no need to begin a spreadsheet comparing every conceivable sports car. Wasted effort if they already know what they want.

My Cirrus was my second choice, after the Diamond TwinStar which was having trouble coming to market in 2003. Glad I didn't wait for that diesel fiasco, comparison shopping notwithstanding.

These forums would be pretty dead if no one ever offered a judgement. And yeah I don't think I'd buy a corvette either without ever driving any other cars...


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These forums would be pretty dead if no one ever offered a judgement. And yeah I don't think I'd buy a corvette either without ever driving any other cars...

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You keep saying that. Do you have any personal experience with someone you know who have bought a Cirrus without ever having flown another type?
 
You keep saying that. Do you have any personal experience with someone you know who have bought a Cirrus without ever having flown another type?

Yep. As I said, 3x


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Sorry, I missed that. Fair enough comment in that case.

I suppose they had flown their trainers, but no other performance aircraft... hell spending that kinda money id get all the dealers to take me up if just for fun!


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These forums would be pretty dead if no one ever offered a judgement. And yeah I don't think I'd buy a corvette either without ever driving any other cars...


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If people posted constructive opinions, that would be good. But posting negative, insulting comments just to sound smart or funny or better than someone else sucks.
 
Cirrus makes some bad ass planes! But that video was hard to watch, the production quality was trash.
 
If people posted constructive opinions, that would be good. But posting negative, insulting comments just to sound smart or funny or better than someone else sucks.

I thought my constructive advice was really clear. Go out and fly a bunch of different types and get informed before spending big money and of course entrusting your butt to a type. I always try to be constructive. Have no need to try and sound smart and I wasn't being funny, and wasn't trying to insult. But I will criticize anyone that spends six figures without doing the homework.

And ps to stay in topic, that homework sure includes transition training no matter what type you buy, but especially high performance planes, no?


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I thought my constructive advice was really clear. Go out and fly a bunch of different types and get informed before spending big money and of course entrusting your butt to a type. I always try to be constructive. Have no need to try and sound smart and I wasn't being funny, and wasn't trying to insult. But I will criticize anyone that spends six figures without doing the homework.

And ps to stay in topic, that homework sure includes transition training no matter what type you buy, but especially high performance planes, no?


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Maybe for some, they don't feel compelled to go out and fly different types. The "CHUTE" is enough. So then the typical response is, A real pilot would fly it to the ground. What about the case of a midair, try flying that to the ground. Or terrain where there is no landing spot, try flying that to the ground.
 
I thought my constructive advice was really clear. Go out and fly a bunch of different types and get informed before spending big money and of course entrusting your butt to a type. I always try to be constructive. Have no need to try and sound smart and I wasn't being funny, and wasn't trying to insult.
Yes, that is good advice.
But I will criticize anyone that spends six figures without doing the homework.
Good advice if it is to your child or someone else that asks for it. But to criticize someone that has already bought their Cirrus is none of your business and serves no purpose. And to some people, six figures is one figure shy of being important.

And ps to stay in topic, that homework sure includes transition training no matter what type you buy, but especially high performance planes, no?
Yes, that is good advice. But it is a safety concern, not a personal choice.
 
Maybe for some, they don't feel compelled to go out and fly different types. The "CHUTE" is enough. So then the typical response is, A real pilot would fly it to the ground. What about the case of a midair, try flying that to the ground. Or terrain where there is no landing spot, try flying that to the ground.

Yep and I don't think that's smart. That's all.

This isn't a chute argument. My concern was always that the same pilots that bought into the Cirrus marketing without getting enough training and perspective were some of the same pilots that got into trouble flying the thing.

Clearly with good training Cirrus can be a safe airframe. But despite the chute the early accident toll was bad, and I doubt some of those pilots were even aware.

Bonanzas used to kill doctors for similar reasons. Aviation doesn't care about the size of your wallet, it's unforgiving. You have to put in the time. And that starts when evaluating a purchase. And then training.

Let's hope lots of types come to have the chute over time.


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What's wrong with buying a Cirrus without checking out other models? I don't really care what other people do with their money. If they can afford it and it's the first thing that the people want to buy, who cares?
 
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Yep and I don't think that's smart. That's all.

This isn't a chute argument. My concern was always that the same pilots that bought into the Cirrus marketing without getting enough training and perspective were some of the same pilots that got into trouble flying the thing.

Clearly with good training Cirrus can be a safe airframe. But despite the chute the early accident toll was bad, and I doubt some of those pilots were even aware.

Bonanzas used to kill doctors for similar reasons. Aviation doesn't care about the size of your wallet, it's unforgiving. You have to put in the time. And that starts when evaluating a purchase. And then training.

Let's hope lots of types come to have the chute over time.


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Then your argument does not make sense to me. I would accept your concerns about pilots who bought into Cirrus Marketing without getting enough training and perspective if it were in fact limited to Cirrus, which it is not. So basically, your issue is with pilots who buy planes, regardless of budget, without enough training and perspective. I would be happy to provide you links to 100's of kathryn's report that are non Cirrus related. The fact that Cirrus understands that any idiot with a checkbook can buy a plane and according to statistics in category, are more than likely to buy theirs, they have implemented a training program to help mitigate to protect their brand. Why wouldn't anyone celebrate that and encourage other manufacturers to do the same? Try getting Textron to do the same for every Cessna Sold, even thought far more incidents per capita in that brand?
 
What's wrong with buying a Cirrus without checking out other models? I don't really care what other people do with their money. If they can afford it and it's the first thing that there's people want to buy, who cares?

As someone mentioned a few times I think it's jealousy. Allows people to make themselves feel better by saying I only spent $50K on my <Insert Here> and this idiot spent $800K on his Cirrus... then you can insert; the parachutes are bad, side stick is strange, all those flashy lights are distracting. Therefore people who fly them are bad pilots....

Cirrus are amazing single engine airplanes and a blast to fly. If I wasn't so amped up about building (Putting together) my own plane I would of bought one a few years ago.
 
Nice sweater, Richard . . . Ever flown in TX? :D
How many Cirrrus's have Air Conditioning?

With air conditioning AND a chute, and 200+mph, I would buy one in a heartbeat, if I could afford it, and be happy to be able to wear a sweater in it in Florida. Sometimes in the winter here, I might decide to wear long pants, but never long sleeves or a sweater.
 
Then your argument does not make sense to me. I would accept your concerns about pilots who bought into Cirrus Marketing without getting enough training and perspective if it were in fact limited to Cirrus, which it is not. So basically, your issue is with pilots who buy planes, regardless of budget, without enough training and perspective. I would be happy to provide you links to 100's of kathryn's report that are non Cirrus related. The fact that Cirrus understands that any idiot with a checkbook can buy a plane and according to statistics in category, are more than likely to buy theirs, they have implemented a training program to help mitigate to protect their brand. Why wouldn't anyone celebrate that and encourage other manufacturers to do the same? Try getting Textron to do the same for every Cessna Sold, even thought far more incidents per capita in that brand?

Sure I'd be critical of anyone who buys any high performance type new or near new without enough training and comparison shopping and education on the type. How much time did John Jr have in that Saratoga was it?

But specifically, this has been a criticism levied at Cirrus buyers. I've yet to meet a Bonanza or Mooney or TTx or light twin buyer that just said, ooh shiny ad, I want one. I've seen exactly that fresh from PPL in the case of Cirrus. Sure it's great for GA, but the company has realized with that comes a great responsibility to go out of their way to train these folks that they marketed so hard to bring in. Can't be successful in GA if your airplane gets a deadly reputation despite the chute. So yes, kudos, but flying requires putting in the time, not just writing checks. And not flying any other types before choosing seems like a leading indicator.


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Sure I'd be critical of anyone who buys any high performance type new or near new without enough training and comparison shopping and education on the type. How much time did John Jr have in that Saratoga was it?

But specifically, this has been a criticism levied at Cirrus buyers. I've yet to meet a Bonanza or Mooney or TTx or light twin buyer that just said, ooh shiny ad, I want one. I've seen exactly that fresh from PPL in the case of Cirrus. Sure it's great for GA, but the company has realized with that comes a great responsibility to go out of their way to train these folks that they marketed so hard to bring in. Can't be successful in GA if your airplane gets a deadly reputation despite the chute. So yes, kudos, but flying requires putting in the time, not just writing checks. And not flying any other types before choosing seems like a leading indicator.


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So here's a video of Cirrus giving free instruction to its customers. Seems like that is an adequate solution. You seem to be obsessed over people who can afford to buy a Cirrus. You're not dropping close to a million on the plane so why the hell does it matter to you so much. If someone doesn't do their research then that's their problem. They'll potentially have buyers remorse. If they decide to drop 3/4 million dollars on the Cirrus and it works out for them, great.
 
How many Cirrrus's have Air Conditioning?

With air conditioning AND a chute, and 200+mph, I would buy one in a heartbeat, if I could afford it, and be happy to be able to wear a sweater in it in Florida. Sometimes in the winter here, I might decide to wear long pants, but never long sleeves or a sweater.
It's an option you can get. Although I haven't flown in any without AC.
 
So here's a video of Cirrus giving free instruction to its customers. Seems like that is an adequate solution. You seem to be obsessed over people who can afford to buy a Cirrus. You're not dropping close to a million on the plane so why the hell does it matter to you so much. If someone doesn't do their research then that's their problem. They'll potentially have buyers remorse. If they decide to drop 3/4 million dollars on the Cirrus and it works out for them, great.

Again all these defensive people. I believe I just said kudos for the 11th time.

And I have a nice airplane, so again not obsessed with that. Do get concerned when aviation companies act irresponsibly, and then people in the aviation community want to pretend there are no issues to prevent any possible buyers remorse. Let's all be intellectually honest, the accident rate was bad. Cirrus stepped up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias


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As someone mentioned a few times I think it's jealousy. Allows people to make themselves feel better by saying I only spent $50K on my <Insert Here> and this idiot spent $800K on his Cirrus... then you can insert; the parachutes are bad, side stick is strange, all those flashy lights are distracting. Therefore people who fly them are bad pilots....

Cirrus are amazing single engine airplanes and a blast to fly. If I wasn't so amped up about building (Putting together) my own plane I would of bought one a few years ago.
I'm sure for some it is but I think for the most part people are just joking. If I could afford one I'd buy one in heartbeat. Yes gsengle, I'd even take one over a Mooney. Don't cry.
 
Sure I'd be critical of anyone who buys any high performance type new or near new without enough training and comparison shopping and education on the type. How much time did John Jr have in that Saratoga was it?

But specifically, this has been a criticism levied at Cirrus buyers. I've yet to meet a Bonanza or Mooney or TTx or light twin buyer that just said, ooh shiny ad, I want one. I've seen exactly that fresh from PPL in the case of Cirrus. Sure it's great for GA, but the company has realized with that comes a great responsibility to go out of their way to train these folks that they marketed so hard to bring in. Can't be successful in GA if your airplane gets a deadly reputation despite the chute. So yes, kudos, but flying requires putting in the time, not just writing checks. And not flying any other types before choosing seems like a leading indicator.


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Didn't you just mention a few posts back about doctors who did it in a BO? I can tell you personally that a few guys in Birmingham bought a 182 having never flown as a trainer to get their license to fly and see their clients. People just don't go buy planes because they are shiny and they want one for no reason. It doesn't matter what brand they buy. You single out Cirrus and again ignore the fact that it happens to all makes and models. It's not Cirrus fault that they are far more successful at appealing to the individual with no experience, likely as a direct result of the chute, but again, I can guarantee that more 150s, 172s, and 182s were bought exactly the same way by exactly the same type. If high performance is your only qualifier, then that falls on deaf ears as someone who could afford more plane who chooses to do so is better off in the end buying their second plane the first time and learning in that, if they can afford it.

Can't argue opinion, so I'm glad you have yours, it just consistently losses its merit based in discarding history and all other makes, models, and idiot people who bought planes exactly the same way. The cases of those you know who did it, have equal or greater value of others who have done exactly the same thing in other brands. Oh yeah, I keep saying that, probably because it is true.
 
I'm sure for some it is but I think for the most part people are just joking. If I could afford one I'd buy one in heartbeat. Yes gsengle, I'd even take one over a Mooney. Don't cry.

The question is have you ever piloted a new Mooney? 50 year old ones don't totally count as a fair comparison. If so I'd even respect your decision! (Yes I've flown a Cirrus)


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Didn't you just mention a few posts back about doctors who did it in a BO? I can tell you personally that a few guys in Birmingham bought a 182 having never flown as a trainer to get their license to fly and see their clients. People just don't go buy planes because they are shiny and they want one for no reason. It doesn't matter what brand they buy. You single out Cirrus and again ignore the fact that it happens to all makes and models. It's not Cirrus fault that they are far more successful at appealing to the individual with no experience, likely as a direct result of the chute, but again, I can guarantee that more 150s, 172s, and 182s were bought exactly the same way by exactly the same type. If high performance is your only qualifier, then that falls on deaf ears as someone who could afford more plane who chooses to do so is better off in the end buying their second plane the first time and learning in that, if they can afford it.

Can't argue opinion, so I'm glad you have yours, it just consistently losses its merit based in discarding history and all other makes, models, and idiot people who bought planes exactly the same way. The cases of those you know who did it, have equal or greater value of others who have done exactly the same thing in other brands. Oh yeah, I keep saying that, probably because it is true.

Nice that you're violently agreeing with me for the most part. Again so defensive.


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I've yet to meet a Bonanza or Mooney or TTx or light twin buyer that just said, ooh shiny ad, I want one.

Happens more than you care to believe and is not limited to Cirrus's either. Just off the top of my head I know people who have bought a Lancair, A36, Mooney Acclaim and B58 all before they finished their PPL.. All still alive too, in fact the guy who bought the B58 has about 2000 hours in it and has been flying it for 20 years.
 
Again all these defensive people. I believe I just said kudos for the 11th time.

And I have a nice airplane, so again not obsessed with that. Do get concerned when aviation companies act irresponsibly, and then people in the aviation community want to pretend there are no issues to prevent any possible buyers remorse. Let's all be intellectually honest, the accident rate was bad. Cirrus stepped up.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias


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The question is have you ever piloted a new Mooney? 50 year old ones don't totally count as a fair comparison. If so I'd even respect your decision! (Yes I've flown a Cirrus)


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Exactly. They're making strides to improve the accident rate. I don't see Cessna doing this. I don't see Mooney doing this. I don't see Diamond doing this. Cirrus provides its pilots with a wealth of information. Maybe Cessna, Mooney and Diamond need to step up their training and marketing game.

Yes I've flown a Mooney before. It's not even close to comparable.
 
Nice that you're violently agreeing with me for the most part. Again so defensive.


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Not defensive. Like a typical snowflake, when you smell defeat as soon as anyone provides simple facts that cannot be argued, you all cave. I'm frankly doing it for fun. I enjoy watching snow melt.
 
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