Any contract pilots here?

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

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Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone here is a contract pilot? I may do some contract flying on the side at some point and I have some questions...

Thanks!
 
I’ve done some, and we use contractors occasionally as well.
 
I do work as an independent contractor. Feel free to post here or pm me.
 
I’ve been doing occasional contract pilot work for over 10 years. What can I tell you?
 
I guess this might as well be a mostly-public discussion, I'm sure some others would benefit.

1) How do you get the word out that you are available as a contract pilot for a certain type?
2) Do you do mostly local-ish work or do you airline to where you'll be starting the trip?
3) What do you have in your actual contracts? Something to assure insurance covers you, payment terms, etc?
4) Do you have a list of things that you ask your clients before a trip? (ie, where to find keys to the aircraft if any are needed, what paperwork they desire/require, anything about how the plane is equipped so you can prep/file, weight and balance etc...?)

I have a full-time gig that I love, but there are opportunities for occasional side flying so I'm interested in how you all do it. Thanks!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
1) How do you get the word out that you are available as a contract pilot for a certain type?

>>If you want to start local, I would first ID all aircraft for which you are rated and interested in, then go visit the organizations in person with a C.V.

2) Do you do mostly local-ish work or do you airline to where you'll be starting the trip?
>>Mine are localish. I know others who do some commuting and that expense has to be covered by the organization (all travel, hotel, meals, your time)

3) What do you have in your actual contracts? Something to assure insurance covers you, payment terms, etc?

>>Add in what fee is expected for cancellations and the timing ie 100% if <24hrs notice.
OT fee ie the rate specified is for an 8 hour day from preflight to put-away, anything after that 8 hours is $X/hr.
What duties are expected (some will ask you to manage the aircraft - that should be a fee above and beyond the flight fee.) Some have people to service, clean, fuel etc and you just park and walk away. Others ask for such things of the pilot.

4) Do you have a list of things that you ask your clients before a trip? (ie, where to find keys to the aircraft if any are needed, what paperwork they desire/require, anything about how the plane is equipped so you can prep/file, weight and balance etc...?)

>>I physically check the airplanes before a trip for these things to ensure I will accept it for a flight.
You may need demonstration of how to open the doors, how and where to move other a/c if it is a multi-a/c hangar, codes for the gate when you arrive before they are open etc etc etc.

>>Be sure to avoid the Sham Dry Lease of a Pt91 airplane; I am learning about this right now.
I think you need to be on the 135 operating certificate, others might know about that.
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I know a lot of people don’t like the medium, but the type specific Facebook groups are a good resource both to put your name out there and to see requests.
 
One of the huge problems out there are showing up to contract on an aircraft, and finding out the owner is not there. But yet you have a group of people going from point "a" to point "b". Are they employees or guest of the owner? Or is the owner engaging in a side commerce of his aircraft?

Dry Leases. The majority of owners have little to no conception of how to properly dry lease and aircraft. As a contractor you need to know exactly how a dry lease works and how to spot when it's a sham.
 
My flights were business men that owned and insured their plane. I flew them because I was IFR rated, they were not. I had an umbrella policy that covered my risk, but was not focused on flying, I had other risks not covered by my normal homeowners policy.

Normally, they flew their own plane.

I also repositioned a plane from Florida to Maryland.

Word of mouth from my first friend did the job.

Edited to add:
4 seat Pipers and Cessna's, not big money, but fun.
 
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luvflyin said:
Not me, but I’m curious. Whatsa contract pilot?
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A commercial/ATP pilot who is contracted to provide (usually) temporary pilot services on a given type of (usually) turbine aircraft in Part 91 operations.

The downside is that, unless it's only a limited side gig (and approved by your main employer), you're liable for training/recurrent costs, which can be well into five figure territory. And, of course, no guarantees of work, benefits, etc.

The upside is that the pay is pretty good. On a jet, four figures per day.

Long article about it from AOPA: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/may/pilot/turbine-have-rating-will-travel
Much shorter article: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...ght-training-magazine/career-be-your-own-boss
 
I’m not quite to the point of actively peddling my services, but I’m definitely starting my research and getting organized. I’ve moved 1 plane and definitely need to get more formal on the contract/risk management side of things.

The big question I have is whether I’m more marketable as a CFI (for non-instructional gigs). My guess is yes, but then I’m weighing the value of going CFI if instruction will not be a full time thing in the near term. The second big question I have is if FAA requires any sort of record retention for contract pilots - I suppose in case of audits/investigations?

these are really good - haven’t thought of most of these yet!
 
Good money to be made contracting. Not uncommon to make well over $2,000/day depending on airframe.
 
What kind of day rates do small single pilot stuff (king air, pc12) fetches these days? What kind of yearly insurance costs is one likely to incur on these fleets as a contractor?

What is a realistic route to gain the training and develop the hours to be insurable as a self employed? Go work for 135 (planesense, fixed wing ems et Al) in the aircraft of choice for six months then branch out on your own?

TIA. inquiries about part time work elicit very little interest on the usual pro sites.
 
kaiser said:
The second big question I have is if FAA requires any sort of record retention for contract pilots - I suppose in case of audits/investigations?
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As a contractor, you would only be able to do Part 91 operations. If someone asks you to do 135, run. And you'd best make damn sure it's not a "part 134.5" operation either.

But, most of our records retention is what is required by PRIA (which would not apply to you as a pilot but to the operator). The PRIA records have to be kept for 5 years, the load manifests for 30 days.

As an individual pilot contracting to a 91 operation, I would keep anything related to your contract for at least a year, but I don't think there are any specific requirements. Just think about what you would want to prove your innocence if an operator does start doing 134.5 and the FAA catches them and then comes to you asking questions. If you keep some sort of records of checking with pax to ensure it isn't 134.5, while that isn't required it's going to show the FAA that you a) know the rules and b) were at least trying to follow them, and that should keep them from getting on your case about it any further.

hindsight2020 said:
What kind of day rates do small single pilot stuff (king air, pc12) fetches these days?
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I would expect something in the low four-figure range as a day rate for those types.

What is a realistic route to gain the training and develop the hours to be insurable as a self employed? Go work for 135 (planesense, fixed wing ems et Al) in the aircraft of choice for six months then branch out on your own?
Click to expand...

I don't see any reason why it would need to be Part 135. 135 operators can't use contract pilots anyway, so there isn't necessarily any need to learn in a 135 environment. If you get hired on with a corporate operator to get trained and build some time, eventually you may be able to do some contracting as a side gig while remaining employed.

I would expect you'll need at least a couple hundred hours in type to be employable/insurable by the companies you do contract work for.
 
texasclouds said:
Be careful jumping in the right seat of an aircraft you have no training for, flying with a pilot of unknown proficiency, in a plane with unknown maintenance history, flying pax that may or may not be legit.
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And make sure you're insured. I took a risk management course at NBAA last year and they covered an accident where the insurance claim was flat-out denied because of a contract pilot being in the right seat that wasn't qualified under the company's insurance plan. I doubt there was any subrogation against the pilot, but I'd still hate to be the guy who cost his client million$, even unintentionally. At the end of the day it's the company's fault, but that's not a good position to be in.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I would expect something in the low four-figure range as a day rate for those types.
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Thanks!

flyingcheesehead said:
I don't see any reason why it would need to be Part 135. 135 operators can't use contract pilots anyway, so there isn't necessarily any need to learn in a 135 environment. If you get hired on with a corporate operator to get trained and build some time, eventually you may be able to do some contracting as a side gig while remaining employed.

I would expect you'll need at least a couple hundred hours in type to be employable/insurable by the companies you do contract work for.
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Copy all. Only reason I brought up 135 is my [perhaps erroneous] perception that those outfits seem less reliant on the who you know aspect of securing employment vis part 91, given their size. They also commonly fly these single pilot T-props, which is the lane I'm eyeballing after mil retirement. What I haven't found much of is legitimate part-time opportunities, which is why the contractor route peeks my interest. But I need to build time in type before I'd be marketable as a contractor, as you pointed out.

My desired end game post .mil is a part-time schedule, and I just haven't found employers offering that. Planesense does in very limited domiciles, but given the day rates you suggested, one could do way better on a day rate basis than what they're currently paying people to be 8-on/20-off in the PC-12. In fairness, nothing wrong with doing 8 on for an outfit and doing the side gig on the rest of the month. Semi-retiree problems I know lol.

flyingcheesehead said:
And make sure you're insured.
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Is it customary for the contract pilot to be included in the owner policy as an additional "Named Insured"? I've been led to believe (google-fu) that is the only affordable way of doing this kind of work. Something about self-procured insurance for this kind of multi-million dollar equipment is basically cost prohibitive and/or unattainable, given the expectation the owner contracting you would include you not just as a qualified pilot, but actual named insured in the owner policy. This presumably negates any risk of subrogation, by definition. I don't have any inside baseball knowledge of this side of GA. Don't mean to come off as asking an obtuse question; I sincerely don't know what's customary regarding insurance for contractors. TIA
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The downside is that, unless it's only a limited side gig (and approved by your main employer), you're liable for training/recurrent costs, which can be well into five figure territory.
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Why do you need approval from your "main" employer to avoid training costs? Is your main employer providing the airplane you will fly? Although I'm sure lots of pilots have done that, I'm not sure it can be legal. Your main employer might be considered running a sham air taxi. Or you.
 
I do quite a bit of contract flying in the Eclipse, the Phenom 100 and the Phenom 300. I used to work in the Citation V Ultra and the Legacy 500, but I am not current in those aircraft.

As others have said already, almost all of my work has come through networking with people, especially other contract pilots. I have also picked up a few trips from various and sundry aircraft staffing companies, although that is not consistent.

My contract clients are mostly Part 91 owners, however, contrary to some statements above, I also contract for a 135 operation, as well. It can be done, but you have to train under their certificate and have to do all of the training events that the regular full time pilots do, as well. For contract pilots, generally you are responsible for the costs of training, so there needs to be enough work to justify the investment of time and money.

Trips can start from anywhere. Very often they are local, but I have flown out to meet the plane all over the country and in Canada. I have also ended trips in other locations and airlined home.

Candidly, I don’t consistently use a contract, but I have a very small and select group of clients that I know. The agreement that I use should indicate day rate, expense reimbursement, responsibilities for aircraft maintenance and status, insurance requirements and what happens if a trip is cancelled or shortened.

While it can be lucrative, it is a lot of work, but very fun, as well.

I am happy to answer any specific questions.

Abram Finkelstein
N685AS
 
hindsight2020 said:
What I haven't found much of is legitimate part-time opportunities, which is why the contractor route peeks my interest.
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It's really expensive to make you into a safe and legal 135 pilot. We have 3 weeks of indoc, where you, the instructor, and your classmates are all getting paid. We send people off for sim training and do training in the airplane. We have to do the yearly 135.293 ride, 135.299 line check, and a 135.297 "IPC" every 6 months (we do all those in the plane). All told, even for a relatively cheap to operate single engine turboprop, it probably costs on the order of $20,000 in training expenses before you even fly your first flight, and it's going to cost maybe half that annually to keep you going.

The FAA really doesn't care if you're part time - You've gotta do all that. And as a part timer, you won't be as proficient as a full timer. So, the company is incurring much higher costs for every hour and day you fly as a part timer. That's why those opportunities are pretty limited.

Planesense does in very limited domiciles, but given the day rates you suggested, one could do way better on a day rate basis than what they're currently paying people to be 8-on/20-off in the PC-12.
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Wow. That's a pretty nice schedule. Basically the standard 8 and 6 except you get every other 8 off as well! Wow again.

Is it customary for the contract pilot to be included in the owner policy as an additional "Named Insured"?
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I have the same question, which is part of why I started the thread. You'll have to either be specifically named, or meet their minimum pilot requirements. I wouldn't worry as much about subrogation in this sort of aircraft - They know that they're not going to get very far trying to chase pilots down for millions of dollars, so I haven't heard of it ever occurring.

dtuuri said:
Why do you need approval from your "main" employer to avoid training costs? Is your main employer providing the airplane you will fly? Although I'm sure lots of pilots have done that, I'm not sure it can be legal. Your main employer might be considered running a sham air taxi. Or you.
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You need approval from your main employer to be working on the side. Part 135 limits you to 1400 hours per year, 800 in 2 consecutive quarters, and 500 in a single quarter. Now, I'd hate to work for a company that actually worked you that hard, but there are companies out there that expect you to work to those limits. If you run out of hours at the end of the year because of your side gig(s) you didn't tell them about, you're likely not going to have a job any more.

Abram said:
contrary to some statements above, I also contract for a 135 operation, as well. It can be done, but you have to train under their certificate and have to do all of the training events that the regular full time pilots do
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Hm, OK. I guess the interpretation of "employed" in 135.115(a) is a bit less than literal. There is no definition of "employed" in 1.1 or 110.2, nor are there any chief counsel interpretations of it. In any case, you definitely need to go through the operator-specific 135 training and checkrides like you said, so any "surprise 135" or one-off stuff is definitely a no-no.
 
Look up jet pro pilots, you put your name in and get texts for flights they need filled, you must be qualified and current in the airframes you indicate

Normally it’s 2500tt, few hundred make model, less than a year since you went to school or had a ride, but varies by customer

You can also contract for companies you once worked for, I would say that’s the smoothest and easiest method


You can make good money, but if you go full on contract pilot I hear it’s hit or miss and can be a adventure
 
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