General Question Over DUI, Form 8500-8, Form 8710-11

[Justin6379]

Hello guys I’m reaching out because I do believe I made a couple mistakes. One mistake for sure, I do know that. First mistake was I received a DUI 6 years ago (I was 24, only alcohol related offense and no other offense sense then) with a B.A.C. at .192. Yesterday I went to do my first medical examine and per FAA guidelines the AME differed it, understandable. Now my second mistake is that I filed for an 8500-8 exam class 3 when I should have filed for an 8710-11 sport pilot's in hind sight. I’m new to flying and have always wanted to fly and am just getting to the point in life where I can afford to do so (at least I thought). The third problem is I’m pretty sure I just grounded myself due to lack of research in all honesty. I knew there was 3 classes of medical exams for a long time now. What I didn’t know was there was a sport version until yesterday evening. Realistically I understand if accepted by the FAA I will be put into the HIMS program. After continuing to read the FAA website and forms it seems like this course is irreversible. My question/intuition after reading is that I will have to do the HIMS program regardless sense I filed for my 8500-8 if accepted by the FAA. Is there any way I could get back on track to doing just the sports pilots license without HIMS. Realistically I can only afford buying a light sport plane and flying a few times a month after the cost of acquiring my licensing & ex. I have cash set aside for this venture but the HIMS program will drain the coughers at an alarming rate. Not asking for any sympathy this is of my own doing. I'm just asking for advice because it’s hard to come by. The nearest HIMS AME is 100 miles away from me so having a bit of insight beforehand would be of great help.


Best Regards,
Justin

 

[Dana]

There is no way to go back. Do the HIMS and get a SI, or fly gliders or ultralights.

 

[rhkennerly]

Alcohol & drug arrests, not just conviction's, are a mandatory reporting event, regardless of class of license. Even arrests for boating while intoxicated.

Actually, you have done yourself a favor by self-disclosing. The FAA matches state & federal driving & arrest records. A few years ago when they first started doing that, it exposed a lot of pilots hiding drug & alcohol arrests & convictions from the FAA. The fines were massive in some cases. Plus revocation of license & medicals.

 

[rk911]

Unless something has changed no FAA medical is needed to fly under the Sport Pilot certificate. A VALID state-issued driver's license takes the place of the FAA medical.

 

[bbchien]

Justin, although the line is set at 0.20 for "automatically being considered to have Aviation Alcohol dependency" it's been a very very long time since a 0.19 has been allowed to fly (First, Second) class withour Full credible rehab. For a third, if you can substantiate credibly 24 months of sobriety (not a drop, which is usually done on a private FAA std. Random urine program MRO'd by a HIMS AME (They call you go to Labcorp/Quest and pee, never miss) after two years of urine negativity and 2 years of serious AA work (in which you actually learn, work, not just show up), if you can survive the subsequent eval by the HIMS Psychiatrist and HIMS AME (e.g are able to discuss how you've worked step 4 into your life, or step 9...or....) you can win the 3rd class SI.

FAA's view is that if you were creditably driving a car wtih a 0.192 the only way to have gotten so tolerant is to have been drinking long and hard...

If there is a QUEST or a Labcorp in your town, or if you can manage the $$s for a Soberlink, you CAN do this even with the HIMS AME 100 miles away. I have overseas guys doing this....last I looked that was about 4,000 nm.

 

[Justin6379]

Thanks, guys, for the replies on this, much appreciated. After taking all this into consideration and weighing in other facts and information I probably will not be pursuing flying. I will still submit my personal statement and all my bosses and ex bosses’ recommendations to the FFA so that have everything on file. HIMS is a lifelong commitment if done as intended and I don’t know if I can justify that just to fly 10-12 times a year for recreation. I should have done a bit more research and went with the sports license route.

 

[Justin6379]

Actually, I was just back on med express my forms have not been transmitted to the FAA they have just been imported. My AME has them on hold for the 14-day waiting period still waiting for all my letters of recommendations to come in. Sense it hasn’t been transmitted can we make the correction before transmission to the sports certification?

 

[sky7]

Like Dana said, you can always fly gliders or ultralights without a medical. There are motorgliders out there that could have been registered as airplanes but got registered as gliders and fly very similarly to airplanes but with the gliding performance profile of, well, gliders. Capable enough engine to self launch and land with power if desired. just because one avenue is closed doesn’t mean its all offlimits.

Or depending on where you are located, near lake or on the coast, take up sailing. Aerodynamic are involved and it is a lot of fun.

 

[flyingron]

Unless something has changed no FAA medical is needed to fly under the Sport Pilot certificate. A VALID state-issued driver's license takes the place of the FAA medical.

Until you apply for a medical and don't get it issued.
61.23(c)(2)
Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);

The only way to unring this thing is to get the third issued (HIMS) and then you can let it expire and do basic med or sport pilot.

 

[Dana]

HIMS is a lifelong commitment if done as intended and I don’t know if I can justify that just to fly 10-12 times a year for recreation. I should have done a bit more research and went with the sports license route.

Not necessarily lifelong. If you go the HIMS route and get a special insurance medical, if you meet all the HIMS requirements until the medical expires, you can then revert to sport pilot.

Actually, I was just back on med express my forms have not been transmitted to the FAA they have just been imported. My AME has them on hold for the 14-day waiting period still waiting for all my letters of recommendations to come in. Sense it hasn’t been transmitted can we make the correction before transmission to the sports certification?

If the AME entered the code number you got when you filled out your part of the application, the exam is "live" and you will be denied or deferred. If he DIDN'T enter that code, the application will simply expire and you're good to go.

 

[Half Fast]

HIMS is a lifelong commitment if done as intended and I don’t know if I can justify that just to fly 10-12 times a year for recreation.

Not necessarily.

If you get the Class 3 and maintain it until it expires without having it withdrawn, you can then switch to Basic Med. Basic Med does not involve AMEs and OKC; just you and any physician. But you do have to get a Class 3 first, one time only.

 

[Justin6379]

Alrighty so some good news and bad at the same time. I figured I’d come back and help the community. I did end up reaching out to an aviation-based lawyer to make sure I exhausted all my options before calling it. Good news is .2 is the redzone guaranteed HIMS program, .15 to .2 is still not a good zone to be in but it is manageable over time. He said in my case they will do a 2 year look back which I was good on, so technically with that I should of been good to go after my case was reviewed. Bad news is the rule about having 2 alcohol related incidents on your record has come into effect here. I had received a disorderly conduct for sleeping in my car because I had a few beers and I didn’t want to drive home. I’m just going to copy and paste what I wrote on my personal statement to send to the FAA don’t feel like retyping it.


"The second one is a disorderly conduct charge. I probably should have gotten a lawyer on this because of the circumstances. I had worked a 14 or a 16-hour day and my family and friends invited me out to a local bar for a live band and a few drinks after I got off. I went up and had 3 beers that evening which is about what I normally would drink. I became intoxicated, tired, and my family was planning to leave in an hour or so, I thought I would wait for them to take me home since I had been drinking. I was parked on private property, took the keys out of my car threw them in a bush, and took a nap waiting to get a ride home. Shortly after, my friend Isaiah came out and decided to do the same thing. Tiffin, Ohio had a heroin problem at the time, and I do believe someone thought we had overdosed and that is why the emergency services where contacted. I was polite with the officers, agreed to a breathalyzer, explained that I was getting a ride home from my family, and was still cited for a disorderly conduct."

So lawyer man said its a 60/40 now. Its either 60% im going to be able to fly and 40% that disorderly cucked me. Ill keep you guys posted. I did blow a .102 and my friend blew a .14 we where both compliant and easy going with the officers.

 

[robin ardoin]

If you really are determined to get your PP certificate, you will almost certainly be offered the HIMS route. Take the option and switch to BasicMed after complying with the program for 6 months. Yes, the process will take 18-24months and cost a bit. However, you can get in the air if you have the patience and the money.

 

[guest user]

As has been pointed out, once you get your initial issuance, you can go BasicMed once it expires. Unless you feel the need to be high and fast (> 18k ft, > 250kts) it gives you full rights as a Class III (and a couple of Class II such as CFI). If you can at all swing it to get past the initial SI, you should be back in business. At least worth your consideration.

* stay tuned for those who may wish to expand upon the minutiae that I skipped over in explaining BasicMed

 

[robin ardoin]

........ Unless you feel the need to be high and fast .........

He already established the fact that he needs to be high.



Just ribbing you, OP. 'guest user' threw a slow one right down the center of the plate. I had to swing at it.

 

[WDD]

So it turns out you've had two alcohol related incidents as an adult (over 18) and it sounds like you're in your mid to late 20's - span of at most 10 years? Which leads me to ask how many other times did you not get caught?

More important than flying, please figure this drinking thing out.

 

[NordicDave]

An acquaintance was studying for his PPL late in life, was pretty sad to learn during the course of training he would be unable to get his PPL due to a DUI conviction 24 years prior. He hadn't had a drink since. Seems like there should be some remedy given such a long time since the offense.