Your first ice encounter?

flyersfan31

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Freiburgfan31
As winter rolls in, ice is clearly the "hot" topic for IFR pilots. Frankly, the thought of picking up even a trace worries me, given the already-low performance of the Sundowner. That, and only 210hrs under the belt makes me wary. Still, there will come a day, with a better plane, where I may encounter ice for the first time. I read Mark Twombly's columns in AOPA Pilot about his flights in icing/near-icing conditions in a 172 and I think "Is he crazy." No, but vastly more experienced than I. I've seen some Richard Collins weather videos, and he seemed pretty blase about flying through light icing encounters in his old 177RG. I am definitely not there yet!

I'm interested in reading the experiences of others on this board. How did you get into ice for the first time. Planned or unplanned? What did you do? How did you feel about it? Were you solo?

Make no mistake, I'm not making plans to tackle ice. I want to avoid it. However, as many have mentioned in other icing threads, you'd never fly in winter if you won't go near a cloud. I want to make sure I have as much knowledge as possible before I ever try. A FIKI Seneca V would be nice too.:D
 
My first icing encounter was a non-event because I knew icing was around and get a vigilant watch on it in case it happened and continually had an out.

I was flying from home, 10C , to Fort Wayne Indiana. The freezing level was at 4000MSL and the clouds were OVC at 1500AGL along the southern route. So we took off to Morris to stop for breakfast and reevaluate the condition once we really saw what was up there. The temps were supposed to climb by noon in Fort Wayne so we figured it was just a matter of time to make sure we were there at the right time.

It looked doable so off we went and quickly got into IMC with an OAT of 3 degrees at 3000MSL. As we passed about our halfway point the OATs had dropped to 0 and ATC had had us climb to 4000MSL by then. I started keeping an eye on the airframe looking for ice just in case. We were in between this thin layer for the moment but that was about to change.

As we got into thicker clouds we started picking up precip and it started freezing. As soon as that happened I asked for lower as I knew it warmer down there and plenty of clouds above me meant getting on top was not an option. ATC gave us lower but we were still picking up ice. Within 3 minutes of that first encounter I decided enough was enough and we already had a thin coat of ice. I told ATC we were getting ice and requested a 180 and the ILS into Valparaiso, IN.

Our turn to the left almost put us straight onto the localizer and I was soon cleared for the approach which allowed for me to decend to 2500 and about that time the ice stopped. We made a non-eventful approach except for one thing. It was the first time I shot an ILS at an untowered field so I forgot to turn the lights on. But we found the runway anyway.

We landed and hung out for a while until the air temps warmed up and then off we went with no problems with ice.
 
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I've picked up ice three times that I recall, all in the spring/summer.

Event 1: near Louisville, enroute from Cincy to San Antonio. It was September and the routing took me through the edges of several buildups that later became TS cells. The first hint was induction icing (icing the air filter), with trace icing on the wings. I was clear of the buildups quickly and the ice quickly sublimated. It took longer to clear the filter. This was a non-issue.

Event 2: Out of Olive Branch/Memphis headed to either Manassas or Winchester in May. Filed at 17,000 feet, climbed through some layers, dodging buildups - no ice. At 17,000 it was clear initially, but a thin layer started to develop. I went up because it was clear above. About 50-70 miles later the layer converged on my altitude. I expected to make it through and break out in the clear ahead, given multiple reports of CAVU between Nashville and Lexington and the weather maps. I started picking up trace rime, which developed over a 5-10 minute period to light rime. It was clear that even a few more minutes to break out would be a problem, so I requested a descent to 15,000 (ATC assigned 13,000 to keep me below the CVG arrivals). Within about 5 minutes after I leveled at 13, the sky above became completely clear - I had no way to know that for sure, and I wasn't waiting around to find out given how the ice was building. It took a good long while for the ice to come off. There was a drop in airspeed as a result of the ice (interestingly, there was no effect on the induction system for this one)....

Event 3: Similar to 2. East of Dallas (and south of Cedar Creek) at 16,000 in August, ran across a thin layer of unforecast clouds. Started to pick up trace rime, requested lower, granted immediate descent to 14,000, and stayed clear of ice and clouds the rest of the way.

And two events in which I was quite concerned about potential icing, yet it didn't happen. Both at night.

One was going into ARR in Oct/early Nov. C90 was assigning altitudes and not allowing deviations. They stuck one guy at an altitude (8K, maybe) over Joliet - he complained about ice, and all ATC did was apologize and tell him pretty much that there was no where else to put him (his response: if I can't get a different altitude, I'll end up declaring an emergency - that got him 2000 feet lower, and an altitude between layers). I stayed pretty much between layers - even though I couldn't really tell because it was dark - until the put me down below 4,000. That was above freezing, and turned out to be a non-issue. We stayed completely clear of ice.

The other was similar, going from HEF to LUK in December. Stayed between layers, no ice, temps above freezing, but knew the potential for lower temps existed above.

In both the last cases, ADDS was pretty much on the mark for predictions.
 
I've had icing two or three times, and never more than trace. The first time was while still doing primary training. We did a cross country to Madison, thinking we could beat a front that was coming in. Well, we didn't quite make it. Tower was calling VFR when we took off for the return trip, but as we got up to pattern altitude we decided it really wasn't VFR and requested to come back for landing. We bought charts and I got an opportunity to fly through the clouds during primary training. We were watching OAT, which was hovering right around freezing, monitoring the RPMs and looking at the wings and struts. We had a plan; basically to climb a few thousand feet, to implement in case we actually got some ice. Well, we did see some ice, though there was no indication on the airspeed indicator or the RPMs. We got permission to climb and, shortly thereafter, we got ahead of the frontal weather and out of the clouds. It didn't take too long for the ice to sublimate off.

The second time was in November on the way back from the Bahamas. We made it all the way up to Kankakee. We were flying VFR, so I wasn't particularly worried about ice, even though the temperature was right around freezing again. In Kankakee at about 4500', we had a light mist, and the visibility wasn't the greatest. We looked out and saw that there was some definite trace ice on the leading edge. We were close to home, so decided to just descend a little into warmer air. Again, it came off really readily.

The most recent time was a couple of months ago, and I'm still not certain that it was truly ice, since the OAT was about 8*C. We were IFR, coming in through some cloud layers with intermittent rain. We looked at the leading edge and there was a definite boundary there, as if it was slush right on the leading edge. We knew it was clear about 1000' higher, so we just requested a climb. We just didn't want to chance it, since I'd only had my instrument ticket a week or so.
 
Years ago I was ferrying an Arrow from SoCal to FL. (In January). I was delayed by storms in El Paso, and was supposed to get to Austin that night, but it was 100' 1/4 mile. So I landed at Fredricksburg. Was stuck there for three days. I finally called the owner of the plane and told him I couldn't get any further east as I wasn't IFR rated (was still about two months away from checkride). We agreed I would get the plane to San Antonio. So, I asked the hotel manager to give me a ride the next morning. It was overcast, and the OAT was about 30F. Rain forcasted for later that morning. I wasn't paying attention to any of the cars that we north bound. The icicles hanging off the rear view mirrors of a semi truck SHOULD have been a clue for me to head back to the hotel. (Mind you, I'm from Los Angeles, snow is a foreign substance to me. Ice is something you put in your pop or tea.)

I preflight and take off. Not 10 minutes later, it starts raining. And the rain freezes solid on the plane. I didn't notice it at first, but within a couple minutes, the windscreen is iced over. Trying to look out of it was like trying to look out one of them frosted bathroom windows in your house. And there's about 1/4" or so of ice on the wings. I panic. Then I did a 180, cause I knew it wasn't raining where I came from. Nothing looks familiar. I tried tuning into the Stonewall VOR, which was almost due east of the airport. barely got a signal. Plane was having a difficult time maintaining altitude. I kept thining I didn't want to die in Texas, and that if I did, everyone I knew would talk about how stupid I was. And then I would become a statistic. So, I put 7700 in the transponder hit the IDENT button and called for help. San Angelo FSS came out loud and clear on the radio, and I was instantly calmed. Within a minute or two he comes back over the radio and tells me to look out the window. I do, and danged if I'm not on top of the flippen airport. He talks to me until I was on short final. Do you know how hard it is to land a plane when you can't look out the windscreen? I managed to get off the runway, taxi to parking and shut the plane down. (announcing on Unicom the whole time.....duh!!) Then I started crying. I had to kick the door open, cause there was ice that had frozen over the door opening. I stepped out on the wing and slipped and fell off, bouncing my butt off the step. I didn't care, I was on the ground and I didn't bend any metal. I found a phone and had to have the operator dial FSS for me, my hands were shaking so bad. They were happy to hear that I made it back to Earth. Then a deputy pulls up, saying that the FAA called him to check on me. I don't remember who gave me a ride back to the hotel. I called the owner and told him to come and pick up his damned plane himself. Took a bus to San Antonio and flew home the next morning.

It was another month or two before I would even fly when it as cloudy out. And I about jumped out of the plane when it started raining once. Good thing I was in an Archer and there was someone in the passenger seat..........
 
My first ice encounter was benign. I was at 10,000 feet, and the tops of the stratocumulus were anywhere from 9,000 to 10,100. As I skimmed through the tops of the clouds I would get a bit of rime on the wings, and when I came out of them, it would sublimate off.

My second one, I picked a little bit up as the cloud bases were dropping, or I should say I was flying towards clouds with lower bases. Picked up about 8 crystals, and asked for a decent for ice, and stayed out of the clouds.

My third one was this year. The story is here
 
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I do a lot of long distance flying in a turbo. Hard to do that certain times of year and not deal with ice.

Most of my encounters were getting on top of clouds in winter and having to descend later. The A-36 had no de-ice; so, I had to plan carefully. Once, returning to Dallas, Approch assigned an altitude that put me right in thin clouds that produced ice at night. It was warmer lower; so, not a big worry, but I did accumulate about 1/2 inch before gettting lower.

The most fun was in the P-Baron, which is a K-ice plane, about 15,000 feet skimming through tops. Would pick up visible ice in each cloud. The K-ice systems easily handled the accumulation.

I've climbed through icing conditions a few times where I picked ice up before breaking out above. Never did this were moderate icing was forecast. Just light stuff. Same on descending. Light ice a few times.

Best,

Dave
 
Good post Andrew! As for me the only ice I want to encounter in an aircraft is that which the stewardess puts in my glass of Diet Coke on my flight in the big aluminum tubes.
 
I can't recall if this was my first encounter with ice, but it was certainly my most memorable. I was flying my early Bonanza from Minneapolis to an Island in Lake Huron in early winter. For much of the trip which was mostly IMC, I would intermittantly pick up trace to light ice. I think the most it ever accumulated was around 1/8-1/4" and it really had little effect on the airplane's performance, maybe causing me to lose 5 KTAS or so when it was thickest. But unknown to me it plugged the fuel tank vents completely causing "a bit of concern" later when the engine stopped as I came out of the procedure turn on the approach at which point I was in snow. I got it running again by switching to another tank but the (what seemed like) 30 minutes with the engine windmilling kinda stuck in my memory.
 
About 3 1/2 years ago ceilings were about 600 or so, and I wanted some actual approach practice. Called a CFI friend who said sure let's go. I got a briefing that said icing above 8000', an altitude we'd never get to doing local practice approaches. Climbed into the clouds in a club 160hp 172. CFI immediately noticed OATs starting to get near freezing. The airport we were headed to is only about 30 miles away. Atlanta Center moved us up to 5000' so they could see us on radar. As the vectoring for the ILS started, so did the ice. First the windshield and the struts and the tire and I'm sure a lot of places I couldn't see. As pilot flying I didn't have the guts to look at the wings, but according the the CFI it was the mixed ice scenario that makes horns on the leading edge. We were cleared down to 4000' but the airspeed was decreasing and it was starting to get harder to hold altitude. ATC was really busy and I could not get a transmission in advising of our deteriorating situation. Down to 3000' as we got our final turn to intersect the localizer. I quickly sunk to 2800' and the speed kept decreasing. I just flew as smoothly as I could. As we came down the glide slope ice started sheding off the airframe and prop. Broke out around 600 as expected. Did a no flap landing. Taxied to the ramp, tied down the plane as fast as we could (LOTS of ice still on the plane) and went straight to the FBO where we borrowed a car to drive back to our home field.

This was a Never Again flight. What I learned: 1. Today I would have asserted myself more with ATC. To be specific I would declare an Emergency loud and clear. 2. I am very careful in my Mooney to stay well clear of ice. I don't think it would be as tolerant as that good old 172. 3. Believe your real time OAT gauge more than a briefer's forecast.
 
I’ve encountered icing three times that I can remember and each time VMC was relatively close by, so the solution was to get out of the clouds.

My first encounter was on my first instrument cross-country during my IR training. It was also my first time in IMC. On the return leg from Harrisburg to Wings field at our cleared altitude of 5000 ft we started to pick up a bit of ice on the wing leading edges. Then it built up on the brake calipers and then the wind screen. My CFII called Reading approach, told them we were icing up and asked for lower. The controller immediately cleared us to 3000. We broke out at 4500 feet and stayed in VMC the rest of the way. The ice sublimated completely from the airframe by the time we got back to Wings.

My next encounter was during an Angel flight mission from PNE to South Bend Indiana during which I was flying right seat. It was November and there was a cloud ceiling at about 3000 ft. When we leveled off at 4000 we started to pick up a little bit of ice on the OAT probe and wind screen. We could see that we were right at the tops of the clouds so we could easily climb out of the icing conditions. The PIC asked ATC for higher, and we were immediately cleared to eight thousand. We broke out into bright sun shine at about 4500 and climbed up to our assigned altitude.

The third time was also an Angel flight mission. This one was from PNE to Boston. Over Connecticut at 7000 ft we entered a solid cloud layer. The outside air temperature was about 20° and shortly after entering the clouds I noticed ice building up on the temperature probe. The pilot in the right seat said that the leading edges of the wings and horizontal stabilizer were icing up too. Ceilings were reported at 6000 ft so we told the controller that we were icing up and asked for 5000 ft. The controller said he could accommodate us in another 4 miles. Soon he came back and cleared us to descend to 5000 ft. We popped out of the clouds on the way down to 5000 ft.
 
I'm interested in reading the experiences of others on this board. How did you get into ice for the first time. Planned or unplanned? What did you do? How did you feel about it? Were you solo?

First and only time was Nov. 2003 on an instrument cross country with my CFII to DBQ and back. On the return trip, we started picking up ice at 4,000. I kinda freaked out a little and I was ready to just start descending w/o permission because the freq was really busy and I couldn't get a word in edgewise. Meanwhile, we're picking up more...

But, CFII said to just calm down and wait. It probably wasn't as much ice as I thought it was. I don't think it got to more than about 3/8" or so. When I finallyl managed to get on the radio, "Arrow 3327M, light rime at 4,000 request descent." They dropped us down to 2700 and the next time I looked the ice was gone. All of it. Poof! Pretty cool.

Thanks for bringing this up, it reminded me that I have another question for another thread...
 
Twice to date, both times near Rutland State in VT (RUT). First time, in October. We climbed out through a stratus layer that reached from about 900 AGL to 5000 MSL. We got a pirep for a trace of rime right after we got on with Boston Departure. The ice was in the top maybe 400 to 500 feet of that layer. Just when we started to accrue a small trace, it started to get brighter overhead. We broke out around 4700 and the trace disappeared about 10 minutes later. No big deal.

The second time was about a month later, again over RUT. I had a funeral that I went to. Had a CFI on board because of potential weather and the sort of trip that I took. Ceilings were higher that day, around 3500 feet MSL, but the CFI was no familiar with the area at that time and elected to file IFR while I was at the funeral. There was an airmet for icing, but it was both north and east of us, opposite or direction of travel, and we were NOT under the airmet. In hindsight, I would have gone out VFR, as I am familiar with the mountains and there are many ways to go SW out of RUT at 3500 that are safe. But we went IFR, and we entered IMC about 4000 feet. It was almost immediately below 0 C and we started accruing light rime. We were unable to climb above 5700 feet, had probably 1.5 inches of rime on the leading edge, and the prop went out of balance. It was a crappy ride. We were able to get west of the mountains and get a descent at our discretion down to 3000. That got us back out in the clear, and we shed the ice in great big sheets. We flew home VFR below the clouds. It was, shall we say, a rather quiet ride home.

I don't tend to depart IFR from RUT in the winter anymore. Personal rule.

Jim G
 
I had a second encounter but I did not think about it until just now. That is mainly because I was flying right seat as safety pilot. This was last Christmas and me and a friend were out shooting approaches. I did a couple in MVFR near Lake Michigan but we decided to head over to Janesville into some IMC and there were no reports of ice and the temps looked like they would be pretty good.

We cruised along at 4000MSL with an OAT of 3C and had no problems with ice. I was on the look out because we would be MVFR most of the way until we got to Janesville were there was some low OVC with bottoms at 1500MSL.

As we got closer to the airport RFD approach has us drop into the clouds and now my watch changed to ice patrol. Everything was fine as we were vectored to the final approach course. OATs were still above freezing and everything looked good. After we passed the FAF and started to descend we started picking up trace ice. We broke out with about an 1/8" on the wings and struts. We decided to not land, and climbed back up on top where the ice melted and we called it a day. Home airport was MVFR and we had no ice on the way there. Only that little bit close to the ground.

BTW did anyone see this month's IFR about which reg constitutes the one you would violate under part 91 for flying into icing with a non-KI plane?

Interesting read. I will have to study it a bit more before I offer my opinion. But the letter writer claims there not to be a reg that could be violated under part 91.
 
BTW did anyone see this month's IFR about which reg constitutes the one you would violate under part 91 for flying into icing with a non-KI plane?

Interesting read. I will have to study it a bit more before I offer my opinion. But the letter writer claims there not to be a reg that could be violated under part 91.
IIRC, the letter writer was addressing specifically those instances when the POH does not expressly prohibit FIKI, as is the case with some of the older certifications.
 
The writer has done a disservice. An AD in the mid 90's called out an alteration to the POH of every aircraft that isn't FIKI, to add "Not certified for flight into known icing". If I look hard enough, I can find it.

Crappy research on his part?
Did he just miss it?
Sigh.
 
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Once. The day before my PP checkride. CFI and I had gone with others to pick up a plane at Bandon, Oregon. CFI and I were returning in the club's C-182 and got tired of bouncing around in the rain showers along the coast, so we headed inland. Found a hole and climbed higher. Cruising along around 12,500 MSL we found more clouds we couldn't top, so he air filed an IFR clearance. Up to 13,000 MSL and we punched into a cloud. Poof. Visibility went south not just due to the cloud. I could see ice forming on the leading edges of the wing and strut on my side and the windscreen was covered. Couldn't go higher as carb ice was making itself known, even with full carb heat on. Lower was the only option. We finally got out of the stuff and I was quite happy to see it finally fall of the plane. We finished the trip under the clouds VFR.

That was enough. I'll be working on my IR this coming year (finally!) and really don't need that excitement again.
 
my first was in a 421 on the proverbial "dark and stormy night" paralleled a line for about 150 miles then found a weak spot and cut through it. on the east side of the line at 9000 we were pretty solid IMC and i started to notice decreasing airspeed. pitot heat was on. turned wing light on and had 1/2 inch or so of rime built up. popped boots and poof it was gone. no big deal but excellent training for me.
 
The writer has done a disservice. An AD in the mid 90's called out an alteration to the POH of every aircraft that isn't FIKI, to add "Not certified for flight into known icing". If I look hard enough, I can find it.

Crappy research on his part?
Did he just miss it?
Sigh.

Bruce, I've heard such statements made before and haven't been able to substantiate them. I have searched the AD's and looked at the title of every one (253) that contained the word "icing" and didn't find any that could be the one you mentioned. None of the ADs applied to more than one manufacturer's aircraft either (none applied to my airplane either), so I'm thinking that there hasn't been a "blanket" AD about this.
 
Twice to date, both times near Rutland State in VT (RUT). First time, in October. We climbed out through a stratus layer that reached from about 900 AGL to 5000 MSL. We got a pirep for a trace of rime right after we got on with Boston Departure. The ice was in the top maybe 400 to 500 feet of that layer. Just when we started to accrue a small trace, it started to get brighter overhead. We broke out around 4700 and the trace disappeared about 10 minutes later. No big deal.

The second time was about a month later, again over RUT. I had a funeral that I went to. Had a CFI on board because of potential weather and the sort of trip that I took. Ceilings were higher that day, around 3500 feet MSL, but the CFI was no familiar with the area at that time and elected to file IFR while I was at the funeral. There was an airmet for icing, but it was both north and east of us, opposite or direction of travel, and we were NOT under the airmet. In hindsight, I would have gone out VFR, as I am familiar with the mountains and there are many ways to go SW out of RUT at 3500 that are safe. But we went IFR, and we entered IMC about 4000 feet. It was almost immediately below 0 C and we started accruing light rime. We were unable to climb above 5700 feet, had probably 1.5 inches of rime on the leading edge, and the prop went out of balance. It was a crappy ride. We were able to get west of the mountains and get a descent at our discretion down to 3000. That got us back out in the clear, and we shed the ice in great big sheets. We flew home VFR below the clouds. It was, shall we say, a rather quiet ride home.

I don't tend to depart IFR from RUT in the winter anymore. Personal rule.

Jim G
So Jim, was the quiet CFI the same one I always used?
 
Hmmmn. If I still had Mooney 201MZ I could look in the logbook because I remember clearly making the entry, "AD xyz complied with by logbook entry". This was in the mid 90s. But the bird has long been sold (10 years).
 
Bruce - I took a look through the FAA ADs online, and a number of ADs popped up when 'known icing' was used as a search term, not necessarily just in the title. The titles mainly included the type of aircraft that it pertained to, and while I haven't yet read them all to find a blanket ED, there are certainly a number of aircraft types that showed up.

FYI.

Leslie
 
Bruce - I took a look through the FAA ADs online, and a number of ADs popped up when 'known icing' was used as a search term, not necessarily just in the title. The titles mainly included the type of aircraft that it pertained to, and while I haven't yet read them all to find a blanket ED, there are certainly a number of aircraft types that showed up.

FYI.

Leslie
Hmm. I just tried a search, and of course it's by aircraft type. This was a blanket type AD....back in the Secretary Pena days.
 
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