"you have the controls"

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jconway2002

Pre-takeoff checklist
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jconway2002
I know the proper way to exchange control of the airplane is for one person to say "you have the controls", the other to respond "i have the controls", and the first person to confirm by saying "you have the controls". This seems pretty basic, but I my CFI does not do this. He is an old timer with about 10,000 hours and I like him so far (my 3rd lesson is coming up monday). Should I be concerned at all about this? Does anyone else not do this?
 
Ask him his preference and explain that you want to be sure that neither of you are interferring with the other. For example, he may start to demonstrate a manuever and you, being the beginner, don't realize it and assume something's wrong with the airplane or that you're doing something wrong because the airplane's not responding the way you expect.

When I'm flying Young Eagles I make sure before we even start the engine that the YE understands positive change of control. On the other hand, I also point out that at any time, if I say "I got the airplane" and that's the command for them to let go & sit back because I've seen something (or the weather is getting funky) that requires me to take over immediately.
 
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It would not be a show-stopper for me, but I would want to talk about him partially getting on the controls. I really do not like CFIs "helping". If he does not want to have a positive transfer, he may be one of those guys too.
 
jconway2002 said:
I know the proper way to exchange control of the airplane is for one person to say "you have the controls", the other to respond "i have the controls", and the first person to confirm by saying "you have the controls". This seems pretty basic, but I my CFI does not do this. He is an old timer with about 10,000 hours and I like him so far (my 3rd lesson is coming up monday). Should I be concerned at all about this? Does anyone else not do this?
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You don't have to use those words, but there should be a clear transfer of control. Otherwise you risk hitting the ground while each of you think the other is flying. This has happened to jet pilots. I recall a story where a plane was tracking down the ILS and neither pilots was flying, and they didn't realize it until they hit the runway a bit hard.
 
My instructor was also an old timer and did not do this. He also would take the controls to "help" and I'd let go (because he had the controls) and he'd yell "What're you doing?" at me. He was an excellent instructor in other areas. So after the third flight or so, I asked him point blank in the after flight debrief if he would please use the formal "I have the controls", "You have the controls", "I have the controls" so I'd know what was going on. He agreed and did much better. (Not perfect, but pretty good!).

I suggest you ask (politely) and explain you're getting confused about who's doing what. If that doesn't work, you may have to find a different instructor or decide if your current instructor's other qualities are worth it. My instructor's sharing his experience was worth putting up with some foibles, to me.

John
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I would not make a big deal of it, it sounds like you know what is currently thought of as being a best practice in this regard (and what the faa wants) - and the chances of getting your instructor to do it at this point are slim.
Maybe you could say, 'hey, I heard my examiner will expect this, ok if we try it?"

You could certainly play out your end of it by always announcing "my controls" / "your controls" at the appropriate time whether he participates or not.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. I am usually clear on who is controlling the airplane, I just wanted to make sure this wasnt a big no-no.
 
SOP in the Army as early back as 85 ...I have the flight controls, you have the flight controls, I have the flight controls. Guys that were IPs and older than dirt during primary simply demanded positive change of controls. Good thing IMO.
 
The PTS specifically calls for those words, so you really might want to get used to using them. In addition, they are pretty much the standard, possibly for that reason. Finally, the reason the FAA discourages "I have the airplane" is that can be confused with a traffic call, not a transfer of control. You just keep using the PTS-recommended words, and let him do what he wants.
 
I remember my first CFI (1998) would say "my airplane" or "your airplane". If he said "my airplane", Id say "your airplane" and let go and vice versa. We never did have any confusion about who was at the controls. This probably wasn't the correct way but it worked :)
 
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I'll have to admit that in several decades of instructing I never used those words, but that was then and this is now...you will be expected to use this format on your checkride, so start making a habit of it.

Bob Gardner
 
I learned it as a three step process - verbal, visual and physical.

Verbally acknowledge exchange of controls, visually confirmed it happened and physically feel that the exchange happen.
 
I try and do the correct exchange when possible, but to be honest, it's just not that often that I ever need to touch the controls. If I do need to touch the controls it's because a crash is pretty imminent and there is no time for such a time consuming exchange.
 
You know, I even read the PTS and somehow missed that I was using the "old" word "airplane." Sure am glad this thread happened, I will now use the modern word, "control."

In a tandem cockpit, I add a stick shake to the above by the pilot taking control.
 
My first glider ride was a bit amusing on control issues. Since I already had flown powered planes, the instructor said that he'd let me do most of the flying. Tandem seating and I'm in front. He gets the plane off the grass and I'm sitting there in the front all fat, dumb, and happy. After a few minutes he asks "Are you flying this?" I say "No, am I supposed to?". He'd evidentially been making subtle corrections to my newbie glider control but I didn't even have my hands on the stick.
 
I state this in my passenger brief . " If I should ask you to take control of the aircraft , we will use a challenge and response method. I will say "you have the controls" , and you will respond with ,"I have the controls". I will look to verify that you indeed have the controls and will confirm by saying , "you have the controls".





If one of my instructors grabs the controls without the above , I will make a subtle reminder by saying " you have the controls" , then they realize the mistake and then say " I have the controls" .

I don't care if I am a student or not. Nothing more annoying that someone else making control inputs and not telling me what they are doing .
 
OK, you guys have convinced me. I was originally taught on my first Discovery flight to use the challenge/response of "my plane", "your plane", "my plane". Hubby switched to "I have the controls", "You have the controls", "I have the controls" but I felt it was too awkward and that the old method works fine. So lately it sounds more like this, "Your plane", "I have the controls", "your plane".

But although I still believe the old wording works quite well and is less bulky, I'll switch. This old dog will learn a new trick.
 
Ron Levy said:
The PTS specifically calls for those words, so you really might want to get used to using them. In addition, they are pretty much the standard, possibly for that reason. Finally, the reason the FAA discourages "I have the airplane" is that can be confused with a traffic call, not a transfer of control. You just keep using the PTS-recommended words, and let him do what he wants.
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I brief my students exactly those words for those reasons. And since I instruct in a couple of tandem aircraft, I add "Shake to take" and "Pump to pass" in the event of interphone failure.

Watched another pilot fly a PT-13D with no interphone for 25 minutes down to min fuel waiting for him to RTB because he thought I was flying. Positive transfer of control is essential.
 
in the gliders i fly i can reach the students shoulders. before each flight begins i either place my hands on their shoulders and say "you have the controls" or i shake the stick and say "I have the controls". You do not want to see what happens to a Schweizer on tow when no one is flying.
 
I subscribe to the theory that as long as the commands are agreed to and followed it works. When doing flight checks in the service the terminology was: You have control, I have control, You have control. In practice, after working together for a while it was usually 'You got it" "My airplane, (sometimes "ship" in helos) but ALWAYS the challenge and response format. You are right to question however, safety is everybody's responsibility.
 
tonycondon said:
in the gliders i fly i can reach the students shoulders. before each flight begins i either place my hands on their shoulders and say "you have the controls" or i shake the stick and say "I have the controls". You do not want to see what happens to a Schweizer on tow when no one is flying.
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Okay that opens the door. I wasn't going to share, but my CFI in the Husky years ago would just whack me upside the headphones from the back seat of he wanted my undivided attention.

Control handoff would be just one example. More rudder one way or the other on landing before he stomped harder than my Cessna feet did and kept us from going into the ditch, would be another.

;)
 
yea i suppose if i was teaching in something like a blanik or something else where i couldn't reach the front seat i'd just need a long stick.
 
jesse said:
I try and do the correct exchange when possible, but to be honest, it's just not that often that I ever need to touch the controls. If I do need to touch the controls it's because a crash is pretty imminent and there is no time for such a time consuming exchange.
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Yes, this. My instructor would secretly "help" on landings in the very beginning, but months before my solo even - he was NOT on the controls.

Here is when he would be on the controls:

1. To show me a new manuever

2. After saying "my airplane" like the time we had an engine emergency (thought it was on fire). We lost two cylinders that day, and before our flare, he handed the airplane BACK TO ME and said, "Kimberly - do you want to land the plane?"

Pretty cool, and yes I did!
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Yes, this. My instructor would secretly "help" on landings in the very beginning, but months before my solo even - he was NOT on the controls.

Here is when he would be on the controls:

1. To show me a new manuever

2. After saying "my airplane" like the time we had an engine emergency (thought it was on fire). We lost two cylinders that day, and before our flare, he handed the airplane BACK TO ME and said, "Kimberly - do you want to land the plane?"

Pretty cool, and yes I did!
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I don't secretly do it. I make it very clear I helped them and what I did. I just don't have time for the entire exchange before coming on.
 
You do not want to see what happens to a Schweizer on tow when no one is flying.
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haha, the tow rope suddenly becomes slack, flies past you - and the tow plane disappears in the distance!
 
I have never seen it stated, is it "My Controls!" (a demand) or "My Controls?" (a request) or do you see that as situation-dependent, maybe personality-affected?!
 
Situationally dependent.. A calm exchange or a rapid one... Like Jesse said sometimes there isn't time for the whole thing... In a save it moment it's more like MY CONTROLS.

And I have heard of times when a student won't let go and a CFI had to hit them to make them let go... Haven't had that happen, thank heavens
 
The CFII that did my tw endorsement in the Luscombe did not do the formal handover, either. If he wanted to fly the airplane he would just say "let me do one for you." Occasionally, I would feel his input while I was flying (landing) and the first time he did that I let him have the airplane. "Why did you let go?", he asks. I quickly learned that he would add control inputs if he felt that I needed help but that he expected me to do as much as I could. This was learning to land a Luscombe on asphalt in a stiff crosswind and there is not a lot of room for error.
 
alfadog said:
Occasionally, I would feel his input while I was flying (landing) and the first time he did that I let him have the airplane. "Why did you let go?", he asks. I quickly learned that he would add control inputs if he felt that I needed help but that he expected me to do as much as I could.
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Problem with that is the trainee doesn't always know what s/he is doing, what the instructor is doing, and what the airplane is doing, and that can be counterproductive to learning. If I'm going to add some input, I'll do my best to let the trainee know what I'm doing and why.
 
Ron Levy said:
Problem with that is the trainee doesn't always know what s/he is doing, what the instructor is doing, and what the airplane is doing, and that can be counterproductive to learning. If I'm going to add some input, I'll do my best to let the trainee know what I'm doing and why.
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Absolutely, and my instructor was very precise in letting me know how to do it better next time.
 
alfadog said:
Absolutely, and my instructor was very precise in letting me know how to do it better next time.
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Perhaps I was not clear with my distinction. When I have to make a control input while the trainee is flying, I try to let the trainee know what I'm doing as I do it, not just after the fact, and I think that is a significant difference.
 
Ron Levy said:
Perhaps I was not clear with my distinction. When I have to make a control input while the trainee is flying, I try to let the trainee know what I'm doing as I do it, not just after the fact, and I think that is a significant difference.
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Personally, I liked it fine his way. I was already loaded up pretty heavily trying my best to land the airplane without it swapping ends and would not easily process anything verbal.
 
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