Yoke all the way back during taxi why?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Blueangel, May 5, 2016.

  1. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    So my CFII keeps telling me to pull yoke all the way back and hold it during taxi before takeoff because he says keeping it neutral will hurt the aircraft nose gear. Why? Is he correct? I never did that except for soft field take off. Anyways the other day I told him I was unable as it kept hitting me chest. I also told him I never wrecked or damaged an aircraft rental by not having yoke back during taxi.
     
  2. Archammer

    Archammer Cleared for Takeoff

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    Everyone has their own technique, but best practices.

    Taxi Hard Surface:
    Headwind; Elevator neutral and aileron into the wind
    Tailwind; Elevator nose down and aileron away from the wind

    Taxi Soft Surface:
    Headwind; Elevator full nose up and aileron into the wind
    Tailwind; Elevator full nose up and aileron away from the wind

    Would a little back pressure on the yoke in the taxi on hard surface help save any equipment?... maybe, but doubtful. But full back pressure during taxi is completely unnecessary.
     
  3. neilw2

    neilw2 Line Up and Wait

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    I always keep the yoke back on taxi on my 182. Keeps weight off the nose gear. The 1st time you get nose gear shimmy when you are taxing a little too fast is the last time you taxi with the yoke neutral.
     
  4. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Taildragger, yes. Tricycle to lessen the weight bearing on the nose wheel. Really not necessary though.
     
  5. Soldier64

    Soldier64 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I taxi my Arrow with neutral stabilator unless wind conditions or taxi surface warrant otherwise.
     
  6. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    What type plane?
     
  7. bradg33

    bradg33 Pattern Altitude

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    Depends on the plane and conditions. Unless you're taxiing into the wind, or taxiing pretty fast, the elevator isn't going to be very effective at actually providing any aerodynamic downforce (thereby actually taking weight off the nose). In fact, with a strong tailwind, you probably want the elevator in a "nose down" position so that the wind doesn't try to push up on the tail (again, depends on the place).
     
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  8. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Depends on the plane and the surface, on gravel keep it back, saves you from chucking crap into your elivator and some folks have told me it can even get into your prop.

    It does keep some weight off the nose, so unless it's really windy, defaulting it all the way back isn't going to hurt anything and could help, so sure, shy of significant ground winds go ahead and keep the yoke back.
     
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  9. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    It's a rental Cessna 172 and I can see in windy conditions but not when calm. My CFII owns a cub and 182 so perhaps because he flies a tail dragger he is forcing his habits on me? I'm getting tired of it.
     
  10. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Other way around?

    With a heavy tail wind Id want nose down elivator.
     
  11. neilw2

    neilw2 Line Up and Wait

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    Yea, I guess I should have said that too. I don't think its a big a of deal in Piper trainers as it is on 172s or 182s.
     
  12. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    In general, the nose gear is the weakest of the three. I treat it like it's only there to keep the prop from hitting the ground, and try to keep weight off of it as much as possible. When taxiing into the wind, up-elevator tends to do that. In a strong tailwind, however, up-elevator actually tends to lift the tail and puts more weight on the nose gear and can make the whole airplane more unstable. So neutral or down elevator is best in a strong tailwind.

    If you're flying a Cessna, though, you might not want the nose too high while taxiing. Cessna nose struts have a centering cam that keeps the nose wheel pointed straight ahead in flight when the strut is fully extended, regardless of rudder deflection. So if the strut is almost fully extended while taxiing, it can make the airplane reluctant to turn.
     
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  13. neilw2

    neilw2 Line Up and Wait

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    A 182 is not a tail dragger...

    Google cessna nose shimmy to see what your instructor is trying to avoid.
     
  14. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Actually, it's quite effective at taking weight off the nose of my 182 even at a slow pace on calm days. I always taxi with the yoke in my gut unless there's a strong tailwind. Then it's full forward like it was this morning in 18kt winds.

    And especially on grass I always taxi with the yoke in my gut...unless it's really windy...15kts or more. I've spent a lot of time on grass with a nosedragger so maybe that's why I've developed the habit of full up elevator.
     
  15. Soldier64

    Soldier64 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I imagine he was referring to the Cub his CFII owns and not his 182 as the tail dragger.
     
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  16. neilw2

    neilw2 Line Up and Wait

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    Oops, I read that a "club" not cub. Yes I'm sure your correct
     
  17. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    In seaplanes it's VERY noticeable, with a tailwind if you pull the yoke back you can watch your bows get lower in the water, push the yoke forward (nose down) with a tailwind and your bows come back up higher out of the water.
     
  18. TFulwider

    TFulwider Pre-takeoff checklist

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  19. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    That's not right!

    Yeah keep the nose wheel off the ground and don't put a ton of weight on it, but that nose wheel is not normal IMO
     
  20. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    He said taildragger, not tailwind.

    IMO, if you need to hold back elevator in a 172/182 for taxi.....you are taxiing too fast. We aren't Southwest pilots.
     
  21. Mike Smith

    Mike Smith En-Route

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    Don't I remember a saying that you "climb into a headwind and dive away from a tailwind"? Seems like I have read/heard that before.
     
  22. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    For a 172, this should apply, and I think might even be in the POH:


    [​IMG]

    Insisting on full stick back while taxiing on a hard surface is not in line with most recommendations for taxiing a nose wheel aircraft.
     
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  23. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    Well I never wrecked or damaged a club Cessna or Piper and only had yoke back for crosswind taxi reasons and soft field take off/landings. Even fly high performance birds like Bonanzas and when I did a P35 Bonanza checkout the instructor at the time an experience Beech pilot never made me pull and hold yoke back all the way during taxi and take off. Current CFII owns two planes- a Cub tail dragger and C182. Nice smart guy but on the whole taxi yoke back I disagree. Asked several other local instructors about it and they found it odd as well.
     
  24. jordane93

    jordane93 Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    This.
     
  25. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route Gone West

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    If you are in a taildragger, DON'T pull the stick all the way back with a tailwind. As the tail comes up, more and more elevator and stabilizer are exposed to the wind and you can flip over frontwards. Best is dont pull the stick all the way back EVER when taxiing. And don't develop the habit of pulling the stick back with a gust of wind from just anywhere. Ive seen pilots do this with a tailwind and over she goes.
     
  26. EvilEagle

    EvilEagle Cleared for Takeoff

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    One of my instructors back in the 90's told me anytime I was flying his airplanes that I had to taxi with the yoke full back - "It saves wear on the nose tire". His plane, his rules...

    I taxi my Bo with the elevator down unless I'm in the grass or the wind is really strong.
     
  27. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    Some airplanes you have to "fly" all the way to the chocks. A Bo (heavier, low wing, low CG, wide and stable gear) maybe not so much unless the wind is really strong. Full yoke back is sometimes appropriate. But somebody who just ritualistically says "full yoke back" all the time, doesn't understand the issue.
     
  28. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    Yeah I ditched this instructor after he started yelling at me for taxi too slow and the yoke not being all the way back in the rental Cessna especially since I'm PIC on ifr lesson and he kept being a jerk.
     
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  29. FastEddieB

    FastEddieB Final Approach

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    Good for you.
     
  30. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    That sounds quite extreme.

    If it's windy enough to flip a plane back to front, I wouldn't want my plane at any angle to the wind aside from straight on without two wing walkers.
     
  31. neilw2

    neilw2 Line Up and Wait

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    Is it that big of deal to pull the yoke all the way back if that's what the CFI/employee of the rental outfit tells you to do? I have a 75 year old guy who I own my plane with and he doesn't seem to have any trouble doing it.

    Did you ask him why he insists on you doing this? He may explain to you some experience he has that prompts him to be so strict with it, and you may actually learn something from your CFI! :eek:

    Again with my plane we all operate it with the yoke in our gut while taxing (except in a high tailwind as noted above). Keeping the weight off the nose is never a bad thing I would think.

    Maybe I'm just too easy going but something like that would never **** me off that much to ditch my instructor for.
     
  32. Blueangel

    Blueangel Line Up and Wait

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    I did ask the CFII and he was adamant that it will damage nose gear if I do not always taxi with yoke all the way back. What nonsense! Plus I got tired of him treating me like an inexperienced student pilot when I've been flying for few years with 300+ hours. He also kept yelling at me in the cockpit so that was enough. He lost another student recently for same issue. However the flying club doesn't care.
     
  33. coloradobluesky

    coloradobluesky En-Route Gone West

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    The glider tow Pawnee went over forward while standing still idling with its back to the wind. Gust of wind over 30mph came from behind and the pilot pulled the stick back in panic.

    A Husky was being taxied with the winds over 30 from behind and same thing happened. Plane was picked up from behind and put on its nose. Pilot went full stick back. Wrong move.
     
  34. airheadpenguin

    airheadpenguin Pre-takeoff checklist

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    The question is why should you do that? The instructor wasn't able to craft a satisfactory answer or demonstration, which as a student raises the question...what other more complicated areas is this guy full of questionable information in?

    We're all students, and its important to learn from people who speak from experience and understanding rather than learning OWTs. It sounds like there's some logic to this that the instructor either didn't grasp or couldn't effectively communicate. I agree with ditching him if he didn't work for your learning style
     
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  35. FORANE

    FORANE Pattern Altitude

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    Many, or possibly most, of the "A" model RV aircraft (nosewheel RV's) owners recommend taxiing with the stick full back.
     
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  36. ETres

    ETres Line Up and Wait

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    I was taught by the old feller that gave me my endorsement after I bought my C-182A to taxi with yoke back to relieve pressure on the nosegear. It made sense to me, so I kept doing it. After all, he was at least 150 years old and plenty wise, and I was a new pilot. :D

    I now fly a LSA and still maintain the yoke back method of taxi, unless wind conditions dictate otherwise. I don't know how much good it does, but it can't hurt.
     
  37. mscard88

    mscard88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I have a lot of time in just about all the SE Cessnas, and own about a dozen POHs. No where in these POHs does it mention to taxi with the yoke back in your gut. Just the an illustration of how to position the controls with the wind if it's a factor. I never instructed students to taxi like that either. Now if the nose gear started to shimmy I would hold it back.
     
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  38. Caramon13

    Caramon13 Pattern Altitude

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    It may not seem like it, but you'd be surprised (or maybe not) at how little effort it takes to "pop a wheelie" while taxiing. Leaving the yoke full forward or neutral can put a lot of weight on the wheel in some airplanes.
     
  39. Brad Z

    Brad Z Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Say what? He agreed to let you be PIC? I assume you're not actually flying under instrument flight rules then.
     
  40. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Mostly :popcorn: on this one but 2 things to point out. My home base, FTG, has large cracks in most of the non-movement area taxiways. The repairs aren't particularly wonderful since the cracks resulted from contraction of the soils. It's quite apparent the cracks put stress on the nose gear when folks taxi at higher speeds. One particular Cirrus gives quite a show. Holding the yoke back seems like a good idea.

    Also had a CFI suggest holding yoke back when moving on snow/ice.

    As noted, gotta watch out for tailwinds.