Yet another Part 61 VS 141 doubt.

Shamir

Shamir

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Shamir
Hi there people!

I hope you are all having a nice time!

I have a big doubt and I haven't been able to find a concrete answer on this.

I would like to start my Instrument rating soon but i'm still debating if to go on a 141 school where I did my PPL or go with my instructor on Part 61.

I know Part 61 requires 50hrs total PIC XC Time. and 40 hrs of simulated instrument and 15 hours of instrument training.

I have about 10hrs PIC XC Time, So my concern or doubt is this:

Can I fly 40hrs under the hood, XC with my instructor while he trains me for the instrument rating and still log PIC and then be qualified to take my IR Check ride?
 
Shamir said:
Hi there people!

I hope you are all having a nice time!

I have a big doubt and I haven't been able to find a concrete answer on this.

I would like to start my Instrument rating soon but i'm still debating if to go on a 141 school where I did my PPL or go with my instructor on Part 61.

I know Part 61 requires 50hrs total PIC XC Time. and 40 hrs of simulated instrument and 15 hours of instrument training.

I have about 10hrs PIC XC Time, So my concern or doubt is this:

Can I fly 40hrs under the hood, XC with my instructor while he trains me for the instrument rating and still log PIC and then be qualified to take my IR Check ride?
Click to expand...

Yep, you can. Just make sure to discuss with your instructor that you need to make all your flights 51+nm. Might add some time to some lessons though.
 
Yes, you can, but it may not be the best use of your time.

Frankly, enroute is the easiest part of instrument training.

Note that it excludes using a simulator. You don't get cross country or PIC time for a simulator, though you might get simulated instrument time and/or approaches if an instructor is present.
 
Everyone's situation is different but I'm a 120pp who started instrument training 61 after getting about 40xc. Looking back I wish I would have just gone straight into instrument training under 141. I've enjoyed my xc flights, but life circumstances make training a little more difficult these days(work, new baby, school). If you want to get your instrument rating in the quickest time I would suggest 141, if you don't need it right away, you could either get another 20-30 pic xc hours and start instrument 61, or just work 51nm xc flights into your training.
 
Feel free to do a bunch of flying under the hood while building XC time while using a safety pilot instead of a CFI.

Only 15 hours has to be done with an instructor. I did the majority of mine with a safety pilot (with the instructor's blessing).
 
I went the 141 route. I can't say it harmed me any. I'm not sure I would chose one over the other today if I had it to do over again.
 
From my experience teaching as a CFII either way is fine, 61 or 141. I wouldn't waste hours and hours flying XC when most of that time can be spent practicing what's required on the PTS. As far as using a safety pilot a lot you could pick up bad habits, wrong procedures, outdated information, etc. Possibly. If you do I recommend coordinating it with your CFII so you train on relevant material. Happy flying!
 
mscard: Agreed. That's why I said, "with the instructor's blessing" in my example.

basically, I did my first few flights with him (worked all the comms on the first flight, including picking up clearance over the phone with release and void time, and then shot 3 approaches at a nearby airport all with ATC) after which he said, "we're done for now, go build time with other guys in the flying club, come back to me when you're close to being done and we'll finish up."

It doesn't hurt that I'd done a fair amount of study and practice prior to the training, so this isn't a one-size-fits-all approach, but I thought it was worth mentioning that if you're looking to minimize time and expense, you can build a lot of XC and hood time without it being dual.
 
It's all about the CFII, biggest factor is find a II who actually know how to fly IMC/Ice, someone who has single pilot IMC experience outside from just instructing.


A good CFII will be able to take you above and beyond the PTS and make a real IMC pilot out of you often times this type of real world instructing won't mesh in with the cookie cutter 141 regimented course outline.

Another factor for instrument training is knowing when to use the plane and when to use the simulator, when I got my instrument ticket I had well above the max sim time, I also shot gunned hours in my own plane under the hood, so going into it I had more than enough simulated instrument.


So to recap, priority 1 --> find a good CFII

Priority 2, figure out with said CFII if 61 or 141 best fits you, chances are with a nighttime real world experienced CFII it'll probably end up pt 61
 
If your goal is to get as quickly, cheaply and efficiently to not just a rating, but real world proficiency in IFR flying, I'd recommend to also throw in a bunch low-cost home sim sessions, with PilotEdge live ATC.
This is most effective after a few lessons with a CFII, and will help you get the ATC comms and flying IFR in the System to become second nature. The pilotedge site also has tons of great videos and other material that focuses on the practical side of IFR flying. Their principal is on this forum and can help with any questions or issues.
IMO it's one of the best bang-for-the-buck resources out there for IFR training.
 
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Doesn't matter. Try both and see which one you like better. Your CFI is going to be the difference
 
Ive seen good results from the schools that are run by the Designated Examiner. Everyone is on the same page.
 
Fewer miscues. Lets face it, there are so many items, any examiner can fail any student. But if the CFI's know what the examiner wants, trains the students in proficiency in those areas, and then the DE tests on those items. That puts everyon on the "same page". Private Pilot is pretty straightforward. The real advantage is in the Instrument rating. Thats the one that causes the most difficulty.
 
So train the student for the test?

If you can fly to PTS standard, you can take a test at the FSDO and you'll pass.


Besides the PTS is a little inadequate for really heavy IMC single pilot stuff, if you can fly to PTS standards you really should pass.


Do you just want your ticket, or do you want to be a good instrument pilot?
 
James331 said:
So train the student for the test?

If you can fly to PTS standard, you can take a test at the FSDO and you'll pass.


Besides the PTS is a little inadequate for really heavy IMC single pilot stuff, if you can fly to PTS standards you really should pass.


Do you just want your ticket, or do you want to be a good instrument pilot?
Click to expand...

This is a philosophy question rather than a piloting one.
Many have said that they have never felt as sharp since right after their IA Checkride. For many, they need to have a little bit of "seasoning" to be good. I consider good being a tighter standard than PTS dictates, and your posts suggests agreement.
 
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