XM Weather Question

[silver-eagle]

Those that have XM Weather, what level do you have and how useful do you think it is? Are you seeing this on a portable (on the yoke), or something on the dash?

 

[jmaynard]

I have Aviator Lite, on a 496 mounted to the console between the seats in my Zodiac. I think it's fantastic: it allows me to keep tabs on the weather in front of me, and lets me make decisions enroute on whether it's safe to continue. This lets me launch and get some of the way to my destination, even if the weather looks iffy.

I'm a VFR pilot. That means I don't use it for thunderstorm avoidance, or indeed, weather avoidance, beyond "oh, the weather ahead is getting crummy, time to land now and rethink". I also do not use it as a substitute for looking in front of me. If I don't like what I see out the front, I land anyway, even if the XM is showing it's clear.

It's another tool in the toolbox, but one I consider essential.

 

[AcroBoy]

I have XM on a Garmin 530/430 combo. It works great, along with the on-screen Strike Finder. Also, it's kind of nice to have the XM radio when doing those long cross countries. As others have said extensively, there is a lag, and I also have on board radar. The nexrad picture is great for the strategic view, but on-board radar is critical for the close up view.

 

[Lance F]

I have the full aviator package on an MX20 MFD. It has totally spoiled me. Yeah, you shouldn't use it to squeeze between two cells 5 miles apart, but it has made many flight completions (and initiations, for that matter) possible that couldn't have been made without it. Mooney pilots like to go fast and far. We are also known to be cheap. With this in mind the money spent on the XM weather has been well worth it!YRMV

 

[tonycondon]

ive been getting very used to having the 396 in the 421 on flights, and i dont really like doing substantial XC flying without it now.

 

[dmccormack]

ive been getting very used to having the 396 in the 421 on flights, and i dont really like doing substantial XC flying without it now.

Agreed -- The XM on the 496 has spoiled me.

I find the most useful screens are NEXRAD, Satellite, Echo Tops, and METAR (though the METAR update rate is not very impressive).

Winds aloft and freezing levels are somewhat helpful, but less referenced that the others.

I'll second the caution about NEXRAD -- it's a way to know where the ugly stuff was -- not a picture of what is happening right now.

So I gave intense echoes a wide berth and it has worked during a variety of longer XC in and around convective activity.

 

[CJones]

ive been getting very used to having the 396 in the 421 on flights, and i dont really like doing substantial XC flying without it now.

Agreed -- The XM on the 496 has spoiled me.

I find the most useful screens are NEXRAD, Satellite, Echo Tops, and METAR (though the METAR update rate is not very impressive).

Winds aloft and freezing levels are somewhat helpful, but less referenced that the others.

I'll second the caution about NEXRAD -- it's a way to know where the ugly stuff was -- not a picture of what is happening right now.

So I gave intense echoes a wide berth and it has worked during a variety of longer XC in and around convective activity.

ditto.

 

[lahso]

I have the full aviator package on an MX20 MFD. It has totally spoiled me. Yeah, you shouldn't use it to squeeze between two cells 5 miles apart, but it has made many flight completions (and initiations, for that matter) possible that couldn't have been made without it. Mooney pilots like to go fast and far. We are also known to be cheap. With this in mind the money spent on the XM weather has been well worth it!YRMV

I agree with Lance F. This has been a good tool in the box to make a lot of my recent trips possible. Without it, I would have canceled the flight.

 

[mmleon]

With regards to the METAR update rate on XM Weather: I believe it is a function of the frequency the METAR data is captured and reported from the individual stations. Many are only captured once per hour with special observations increasing that somewhat rarely when condistions change rapidly. It's not to be confused with the AWOS/ASOS update frequecies.

Marco

 

[dmccormack]

With regards to the METAR update rate on XM Weather: I believe it is a function of the frequency the METAR data is captured and reported from the individual stations. Many are only captured once per hour with special observations increasing that somewhat rarely when condistions change rapidly. It's not to be confused with the AWOS/ASOS update frequecies.

Marco

Good question -- I'll have to look that one up...

 

[mantakos]

With regards to the METAR update rate on XM Weather...

XM broadcasts these on a 12 minute cycle. But, of course, they don't create METARs, they just pass them along, and most sites generate them hourly.
-harry

 

[4CornerFlyer]

I don't think it's much of an exaggeration to say that real-time cockpit weather is the best invention for general aviation since the internal combustion engine.

It is worth every penny.

Jon

 

[Bill]

Mooney pilots like to go fast and far. We are also known to be cheap. With this in mind the money spent on the XM weather has been well worth it!YRMV

I'm a self confirmed cheap bastage, and the 496/full XM weather package is worth every penny. Enough that I don't want to fly IFR without it.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

Don't forget the newest level, Aviator Pro.

Wow, $50 more ($99/month) than Aviator. Adds the following. Not sure it's worth double the price, though! Must be targeted at the high fliers (turboprops and jets) that have the funds and need for this kind of info:

[ROW][CELL] Product [/CELL][CELL] Coverage [/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Turbulence[/CELL][CELL]U.S. / Canada[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Current Icing Product (CIP)[/CELL][CELL]U.S./ Canada[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Supercooled Large Droplets (SLD)[/CELL][CELL]U.S./Canada [/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]SPC Day One Convective Outlook[/CELL][CELL]U.S.[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]SPC Mesoscale Discussions[/CELL][CELL]U.S.[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Visibility[/CELL][CELL]U.S. / Canada[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Hurricane Track[/CELL][CELL]U.S. / Puerto Rico[/CELL][/ROW]

Why is there a large gap up above? I have zero space between the last colon and the table tag...

 

[Lance F]

My MX20 won't even display all the data in the Aviator package I pay for. So the extra 50 won't get me anything.

 

[tonycondon]

hmmm, Current icing prediction and SLD info could be worth it in the winter here.

 

[dmccormack]

Given that most of the additional data is prognostic.... it seems a waste of money for any flights less than 4 hours....

Can save $50/month by tuning in 122.0 and calling the nice folks at Flight Watch for that data.

 

[dmccormack]

Dan,

Don't think EFAS will provide you with mesoscale discussions or the SPC convective outlooks (they don't provide the convective outlooks issued by the AWC either). They *may* have access to the SPC severe weather watches, but I've never been offered that information for any briefing or en route update via EFAS (warnings included) - only convective SIGMETs. Additionally, if you ask them for information on CIP or FIP or the GTG (turbulence) product, they won't know what you are talking about (or they won't have immediate access to it). They will offer AIRMETs, SIGMETs, convective SIGMETs, area forecasts (FA), terminal aerodrome forecasts (TAFs), PIREPs and METARs.

What would have been smarter for XM-based WxWorx is to include the convective outlook areas from the AWC. Those are a forecast for a 2 to 6 hour window perfect for most of the flights we take...I could sure have used them on dozens of flights. When I visited the WxWorx facility July 2007 and got to see these products, I couldn't convince them that the AWC outlooks were more helpful than the SPC outlooks.

Mesoscale discussions, on the other hand, are the front lines of convection and will be very useful in the air. These are typically "issued" before any severe weather watches are issued.

While that data and analysis is certainly informative and valuable, so far -- in my experience flying GA airplanes -- that level of analysis and discussion happens on the ground -- and that is likely because I can't intelligently process those products while flying.

For example, I use SIGMETS and AIRMETS as "Pay Attention Here!" markers rather than go/no-go determinants. I may alter the departure time or route slightly based on prognostics, but once airborne it's NEXRAD, Satellite, Echo Tops, METAR, with all the rest (Winds, Freezing level, etc) as advisory or consultation.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Those that have XM Weather, what level do you have and how useful do you think it is? Are you seeing this on a portable (on the yoke), or something on the dash?

I have the full Aviator package on a Garmin 496 on the yoke.

The main thing I wanted out of Aviator (vs. Aviator Lite) was lightning strikes. There aren't very many places you can find those, and around here it seems to be a good indicator for "can I or can't I fly through that light yellow stuff?"

So far, I haven't needed it for that, but I have been extremely glad to have the weather in general. VERY handy.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Wow, $50 more ($99/month) than Aviator. Adds the following. Not sure it's worth double the price, though! Must be targeted at the high fliers (turboprops and jets) that have the funds and need for this kind of info:

[ROW][CELL] Product [/CELL][CELL] Coverage [/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Turbulence[/CELL][CELL]U.S. / Canada[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Current Icing Product (CIP)[/CELL][CELL]U.S./ Canada[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Supercooled Large Droplets (SLD)[/CELL][CELL]U.S./Canada [/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]SPC Day One Convective Outlook[/CELL][CELL]U.S.[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]SPC Mesoscale Discussions[/CELL][CELL]U.S.[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Visibility[/CELL][CELL]U.S. / Canada[/CELL][/ROW]
[ROW][CELL]Hurricane Track[/CELL][CELL]U.S. / Puerto Rico[/CELL][/ROW]

Why is there a large gap up above? I have zero space between the last colon and the table tag...

Troy,

All of the returns you have between the table rows are showing up above the table. You pretty much have to eliminate all the returns between TABLE and /TABLE to get rid of the space.

 

[tonycondon]

scott, thanks. i saw that of course right after i posted and it makes sense. however its a step in the right direction.

 

[silver-eagle]

Thanks for all the info and the responses. It turned out to be an enlightening dialog.
Well, I bit. Went with the Aviator. While I have not used it in the plane yet, I have been test driving it almost every day. Maybe it's just me, or something to get used to, but that first update, when you turn on the device, seems to take 20 minutes. The other thing I noticed, which may be user error, is it first comes back with unknown subscription.
By the way, for those looking at a GARMIN 495 vs a 496, the extra cost for the 496 is the additional WX hardware. Before passing up the 496 for the less expensive product, make double sure you won't be temped to get WX. That hockeypuck is an expensive addition and I don't know if the 495 is upgradable to WX if not part of the original purchase.

 

[jkeesaman]

I've got a 496 with the Master Mariner package, used to have the Aviator package. It contains everything the Aviator package does plus a few more products for the same price. Don't bother looking at the XM web site, their list for the Master Mariner is wrong. Several of us from the red board have gone this route and it is better. You can try for yourself for free, XM will switch you for no cost, if you don't agree, switch it back for free.

 

[gprellwitz]

I've got a 496 with the Master Mariner package, used to have the Aviator package. It contains everything the Aviator package does plus a few more products for the same price. Don't bother looking at the XM web site, their list for the Master Mariner is wrong. Several of us from the red board have gone this route and it is better. You can try for yourself for free, XM will switch you for no cost, if you don't agree, switch it back for free.

Thanks. Wasn't aware of that package.

One thing I've noticed with our 496 is that sometimes while scrolling on the map it will freeze for a moment and remove all the WX as it redraws it. It makes it cumbersome to bring up the weather for a station by pointing to the flag. Has anyone else found that too?

 

[dmccormack]

Thanks. Wasn't aware of that package.

One thing I've noticed with our 496 is that sometimes while scrolling on the map it will freeze for a moment and remove all the WX as it redraws it. It makes it cumbersome to bring up the weather for a station by pointing to the flag. Has anyone else found that too?

In what Mode, Grant?

METAR screen is pretty much useless as all the reports are 53 after the hour. So if you're looking for Wx changes at 1130, oh well.

 

[silver-eagle]

I've got a 496 with the Master Mariner package, used to have the Aviator package. It contains everything the Aviator package does plus a few more products for the same price. Don't bother looking at the XM web site, their list for the Master Mariner is wrong. Several of us from the red board have gone this route and it is better. You can try for yourself for free, XM will switch you for no cost, if you don't agree, switch it back for free.

Speaking about switching, the reps I talked with at XM said that if you're not using the subscription for a given period of time, they can suspend it so you don't pay for a service you're not using.
I have the same thing going on with my BendixKing 89B subscription. Since it's gone bad, that subscription is on hold pending repair/replace of my 89B.
That is just good customer service.

 

[jmaynard]

METAR screen is pretty much useless as all the reports are 53 after the hour. So if you're looking for Wx changes at 1130, oh well.

This, IME, depends on the reporting station. KFRM reports METARs every 20 minutes, and those updates show up on my 496 just fine.