X-plane or similar worth buying?

Luckypants

Luckypants

Filing Flight Plan
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Luckypants
Unfortunately, there are no glass panel sims anywhere near me, so I'll be doing 100% of my IFR instruction in my plane. Is a computer sim worth buying for practice? and do I need pedals and a joystick and throttle to use Xplane?
 
Thanks, but I'm not spending $7000 for a simulator. I can fly a helluva lot with a CFI for 7G's
 
My CFI encourages me to use a FS. He's not a microsoft guy so he likes XPlane but I own FSX so I'll probably use that one of these days.
 
I've been using FSX with this yoke for years:

ch-yoke-shot.jpg


Nothing like the real deal but how can it hurt?

I also use this yoke with Garmin's G1000 simulator for my Mooney. If you have the Perspective panel I think you can get a Garmin simulator for that too.

I used to have rudder pedals but found them to be too unrealistic to be of any value.
 
don't worry, flying the airplane is way better and more productive than flying a flimsy piston engine simulator, including the big frascas. For fun buy xplane, set up a pc, and install ivao or vatsim.
 
Both the Xplane and Microsoft Flight Simulator software are EXCELLENT instrument and flight training items to have. Anyone who tells you any different needs to get their head checked, or stop wearing Birkenstocks and get with the 21st century.

Microsoft Flight Simulator X is the more popular and easier interface to work in. However, they don't make it anymore, so it may be difficult to find a copy of the program in a store. However online, there is a massive cult following for that software, and no shortage of 3rd party companies that support it. Don't waste your time buying anything but Microsoft Flight Simulator X with Acceleration. The flight dynamics are pretty good, but the glass panel options are great and readily available for the MSFS product, from several 3rd party software developers - i.e. Carenado, and many others. The modifications that you can add to the MSFS product are amazing, so be careful that you don't get addicted to the sim cult, because it's really something.
Microsoft Flight Sim w/ Acceleration: $30.00
Glass panel aircraft addons: $20-$50 (Priced off FlightSim Store and Carenado

The X-Plane software is a little different, however just as valuable a resource for what you're trying to do. X-Plane 9 is the old version and X-Plane 10 is the new one. Although quite a bit more expensive, the user interface and setup has been given a good overhaul and seems to be easier for novice use and setup. The flight dynamics are amazingly accurate and as close as you can get to the "feeling" of flying from a sim. However, the options are limited in what is available for X-Plane 9,10 and may hinder you. Additionaly the pricepoint of X-Plane 10 is substantially higher.
X-Plane 10: $70
Glass panel aircraft addons: $20-$60 (Priced off X-Aviation and Carenado)



There is a 3rd option, but it's something that requires some real "need" for that level of operation. It's the Prepar3D software platform. Based on the MSFS construct, it is the next evolution of software based flight simulation. Operated and updated by Lockheed Martin, this one will knock your socks off. But it'll run you $200.00. However, there are some real benefits which you will read about from the link.

I spent 7 years in the flight sim industry, and completed all my flight training at a Part 141 center, so if you want someone to ramble at you about the benefits of flight simulation and where to get the best bang for your buck, you just let me know. I'm happy to talk your ear off.
 
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Shane,

At yet another price point, $3K+, there's the TouchTrainer (www.flythissim.com). Are you familiar with that one? If so, what do you think of it? Althought it's much more expensive, the time you spend on it can be legally logged is instrument time, which is potentially quite valuable.

@Luckypants: TouchTrainer is geared towards Cirrus aircraft with either Avidyne or Perspective. If you have one of these rigs, and since by your own admission you have more money than skill, you might want to check it out.:wink2:

BTW, I'm not affiliated with any flight sim companies. I've just done a lot of research.
 
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Lucky,
Do you have a computer fast enough to run the sim? A new sim capable PC can be $1000+

I'm sure slower machines will run it but not as smooth.
 
colojo said:
Shane,

At yet another price point, $3K+, there's the TouchTrainer (www.flythissim.com). Are you familiar with that one? If so, what do you think of it? Althought it's much more expensive, the time you spend on it can be legally logged is instrument time, which is potentially quite valuable.
Click to expand...

There's several options as far as hardware. Mostly all of the hardware "kits" or modules work with MSFS, but some also work with X-Plane. Everything from FlyThisSim, Redbird TD, SimKits, GoFlight Technologies, VR Insight, Elite, Flight Deck Solutions, and many more.

I wish there was a place where you could go "demo" all the hardware available but you just can't. I can tell you this. For about 2 years I did an online broadcast about Flight Simulation, and during that time, all these companies sent me much of their hardware and/or software for me to demo and do reviews on.
The time I spent with the FlyThisSim hardware was pretty good, however very limiting for VFR flying. That hardware platform is meant for Instrument based training ONLY, and wouldn't provide much enjoyment otherwise. Having said that, it is a well made product with a pretty good interface with the simulator. It does come with some tactile switches and levers, but no good visuals out the window. It does it's job well with instrument based training.
Personally, I think there are much cheaper options that would complete the same task for a substantially lower cost to you doing it personally, and not buying it for a flight school. I mean, if you have 2 monitors, a yoke/flight stick and some rudder pedals. You've got a FlyThisSim trainer without the fancy touchscreen and some toggle switches. But you can always buy those modules from places like GoFlight or Saitek. Yes, the time in the certified sim is loggable, but I would want to use some instructor time for that type of sim training, with their equipment, not mine at home.
Plus, if you used some good widescreen monitors, you could have some great widescreen visuals out the window and your PFD/MFD on the lower screen, so that when your eyes are bugged out of your head from flying that DME arc you can get low and slow and have some fun for a while.
 
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I use X-plane 10 and have been using pilotedge.net for live ATC. I sure have learned a lot using pilotedge. Those guys are way more professional than any free ATC service. They are very helpful, but also quick to let you know if you have made mistakes which is what you need to hear when you are trying to learn. Now, I am only a PPL student, but I will definitely be using this setup to help me beyond my PPL. below is a couple videos made by the founder of pilotedge.



 
Beautiful set up Shane :yes:
 
wow Shane. That is quite the opposite from my setup. :) I bet you have some serious money invested in that setup. I only use a laptop and a headset w/mic.
 
Badger said:
Lucky,
Do you have a computer fast enough to run the sim? A new sim capable PC can be $1000+

I'm sure slower machines will run it but not as smooth.
Click to expand...

That is a variable that is usually overlooked. As he said, you absolutely need a hearty gaming rig to run either software with any success. If you have a standard desktop computer or laptop that doesn't at least have a dual core or better, with lots of memory and a great video card, then you're looking at some additional hardware costs.

Thank you Badger
 
JasonM said:
wow Shane. That is quite the opposite from my setup. :) I bet you have some serious money invested in that setup. I only use a laptop and a headset w/mic.
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Not as much as you would think. I am a die hard DIY and bargain guy, so although it took me longer than say a "wallet warrior" I saved thousands on hardware, and more importantly, my in-the-air flight training.

The screens I found on ebay at some resale shop, for 125 bucks a piece brand new. The yoke I found at a goodwill for $5 that didn't work. I took it apart and found a broken spring inside. Replaced it for $2 bucks at the hardware store.
Rudder pedals on craigslist for $25. The touchscreen I found at a second hand car stereo shop. I converted the RCA's to DVI, and it's touchscreen for $50! That's my GPS. Most of the other GoFlight hardware I bought resale from Ebay and the other modules I actually made. There is a huge library of "DIY flight sim" stuff all over the web. RogerDoger Aviation is the best one if you want some inexpensive Flight Sim tweaks. But you can get into things like Phidgets and make your own switch interfaces and such.
 
I use X-Plane 10 on a Mac, with the excellent add-on aircraft from Carenado (C-172N, M20J, Archer II, Saratoga, V35B Bonanza).

Other than just stooging around looking at scenery when the real world is unflyable, I find the sim's greatest value is in "rehearsing" an upcoming trip to an unfamiliar area, whether VFR or IFR. When the real trip happens I have a better idea of how the terrain will look, how long things will take, etc.

Neither FSX nor X-Plane do a great job of simulating GPS approaches. However, the built-in wi-fi interface between X-Plane and Foreflight is a very nice feature. Everything you can do navigation-wise with an iPad or iPhone with Foreflight in the air, you can do while flying X-Plane. I understand there is a third-party add-on that will link FSX with Foreflight as well.
 
Nothing wrong with doing all of your IFR instruction in your plane. It's what I did, and I think provides a great deal of benefit.
 
Pilawt said:
I use X-Plane 10 on a Mac, with the excellent add-on aircraft from Carenado (C-172N, M20J, Archer II, Saratoga, V35B Bonanza).

Other than just stooging around looking at scenery when the real world is unflyable, I find the sim's greatest value is in "rehearsing" an upcoming trip to an unfamiliar area, whether VFR or IFR. When the real trip happens I have a better idea of how the terrain will look, how long things will take, etc.

Neither FSX nor X-Plane do a great job of simulating GPS approaches. However, the built-in wi-fi interface between X-Plane and Foreflight is a very nice feature. Everything you can do navigation-wise with an iPad or iPhone with Foreflight in the air, you can do while flying X-Plane. I understand there is a third-party add-on that will link FSX with Foreflight as well.
Click to expand...


You've got that right. No matter how many addons you get for scenery and such, all of them are a poor substitute for the real thing. But they're getting closer all the time, and in some cases downright scary good.
Plus, it sure does save some money doing it simulated. Why get in your airplane to practice instrument work at $100.00 or more when you can get hours of enjoyment for next to nothing.

Also, how great is it to PAUSE!! Omg, if I could have done that in the airplane a few times. Great tool the pause button. If you get behind the airplane, "pause", reevaluate and do it again. Invaluable training, not having to wait however many hours later to debrief. Pause and debrief what just happened right then, not 3 hours later when you've forgotten.

What's happening with your GPS approaches?
 
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But thanks. I'm avidyne, I'll look into it. And also changing my signature
 
JasonM said:
I sure have learned a lot using pilotedge. Those guys are way more professional than any free ATC service.
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I have had very positive experiences with VATSIM. I don't want to get into another one of these (WHY AM I STILL TYPING?!?!?!?!), but why are they way more professional?

I am a real-world instrument rated pilot, and have had some very professional exchanges on VATSIM.
 
StevieTimes said:
I have had very positive experiences with VATSIM. I don't want to get into another one of these (WHY AM I STILL TYPING?!?!?!?!), but why are they way more professional?

I am a real-world instrument rated pilot, and have had some very professional exchanges on VATSIM.
Click to expand...

I used VATSIM for 3 months and there were days where I couldn't even get ATC to respond at towered airports, some of the ATC I talked to would be kids that didn't take it seriously. It was difficult to get setup at the beginning for me. The overall professionalism and realism I desired wasn't there. I'm not saying its not sufficient if you don't want to pay for a service, I just like knowing without a doubt ATC will be there and the pilotedge ATC goes by the book from what I can tell, which has really helped me a bunch.

There were times I would do something wrong on VATSIM and it was as if it didnt matter. When I made similar mistakes such as an improper read back, the ATC would make it known on pilotedge.

I would suggest everyone try them both. the only advantage I liked about VATSIM was that you could fly outside of the California area.

I am not an instrument rated pilot. I am only a student going for my private, so take my opinion for what its worth :dunno:
 
JasonM said:
I used VATSIM for 3 months and there were days where I couldn't even get ATC to respond at towered airports, some of the ATC I talked to would be kids that didn't take it seriously. It was difficult to get setup at the beginning for me. The overall professionalism and realism I desired wasn't there. I'm not saying its not sufficient if you don't want to pay for a service, I just like knowing without a doubt ATC will be there and the pilotedge ATC goes by the book from what I can tell, which has really helped me a bunch.
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I've had great luck that ZMP has had courteous professionals when I've been on. Have I ever encountered someone new who was clearly being trained in? Yes... so goes the real world. However, I would say VATSIM goes by the book from what I can tell. If there's a difference in how one adhere's to "the book" vs another, I'm curious to hear what it is.

JasonM said:
There were times I would do something wrong on VATSIM and it was as if it didnt matter. When I made similar mistakes such as an improper read back, the ATC would make it known on pilotedge.

I would suggest everyone try them both. the only advantage I liked about VATSIM was that you could fly outside of the California area.

I am not an instrument rated pilot. I am only a student going for my private, so take my opinion for what its worth :dunno:
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It seems like your expectations didn't meet reality. VATSIM isn't a training organization; it's like a virtual real world. PilotEdge is a training ground, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not knocking that PilotEdge is trying to be more helpful than reality; I'm seeing that PilotEdge is more for training than it is just to try to create a virtual reality.

So I'm not going to knock your preferred place to fly; I just don't think it's fair to say "way more professional". You may have had a bad experience, or some bad expectations, but my experiences have been the polar opposite. Once I understood that VATSIM wasn't there to train me, only to provide as real as possible an experience, I had nothing but great times.

Praise your dudes all you want; but diss my dudes (I have no affiliation, just enjoy praticing with VATSIM now and then), how I see as unfairly, and I have to speak my peace. ZMP, at least, has been great to work with, have been very professional, and very helpful. I think I got through my instrument training faster because of my practice on VATSIM.
 
Badger said:
Lucky,
Do you have a computer fast enough to run the sim? A new sim capable PC can be $1000+

I'm sure slower machines will run it but not as smooth.
Click to expand...

Since I don't know the answer to that,... probably not.
 
StevieTimes said:
I've had great luck that ZMP has had courteous professionals when I've been on. Have I ever encountered someone new who was clearly being trained in? Yes... so goes the real world. However, I would say VATSIM goes by the book from what I can tell. If there's a difference in how one adhere's to "the book" vs another, I'm curious to hear what it is.


It seems like your expectations didn't meet reality. VATSIM isn't a training organization; it's like a virtual real world. PilotEdge is a training ground, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not knocking that PilotEdge is trying to be more helpful than reality; I'm seeing that PilotEdge is more for training than it is just to try to create a virtual reality.

So I'm not going to knock your preferred place to fly; I just don't think it's fair to say "way more professional". You may have had a bad experience, or some bad expectations, but my experiences have been the polar opposite. Once I understood that VATSIM wasn't there to train me, only to provide as real as possible an experience, I had nothing but great times.

Praise your dudes all you want; but diss my dudes (I have no affiliation, just enjoy praticing with VATSIM now and then), how I see as unfairly, and I have to speak my peace. ZMP, at least, has been great to work with, have been very professional, and very helpful. I think I got through my instrument training faster because of my practice on VATSIM.
Click to expand...


I totally understand where you are coming from. I simply didn't have the same experience you have had. Maybe I just went to the restaurant when the cook was on break. It was a huge difference for me though. :)
 
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