WTB: 182P/Q - but all are $$$

The Bo is a fine soft field plane despite it's tailwheel being on the wrong end. My plane is in and out of soft dirt and sod fields regularly. The only keys with the Bo is 10-15deg flaps and to not pull it off early. Given the same weights I expect I can get in and out of anything a C-182 bone stock plane can. Let the plane tell you when it's ready to fly, and the Bo will treat you right. Downside is it's not the baggage hound the Cessna is, fairly limited on camp gear storage depending on model chosen. Makes up for it by being much faster getting there and back! :)
 
Brad Z said:
Nothing wrong with the earlier ones but the N, P and Qs have 2,950 gross weights. Prior to that, the gross weight was 2,800. In addition, the P and Q have a paperwork STC allowing take off weight increase to 3,100. That gives you 300 more pounds over the earlier models, without much increase in empty weight.



I wouldn't pay as much attention to the asking prices as I would the book values. An owner might drop 30k once you show him what its worth, particularily if it's been on the market a while. Again, brokers generally do a decent job of managing their seller's expectations so you won't have to. Important thing is to get the right airframe and avionics. The rest can be addressed on a dollar for dollar basis.
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Gross weight or Usable weight? The newer ones got heavier.

If the doors close on the 182, it is under gross weight. ;-)


Book values are completely worthless on anything other than a used car. The value is what the market is, not a book. There are not enough reliable, recent, and reported sales to have a "book".

I have no idea what the book is on my 182, nor did I get an appraisal. I looked at lots of planes, talked to owners who had just sold, and came to my own valuation. After some anguish by the seller, my offer was accepted.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
JoseCuervo said:
Gross weight or Usable weight? The newer ones got heavier.

If the doors close on the 182, it is under gross weight. ;-)
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The restarts got heavier. Not a ton of weight gain over the previous years aside from differences in avionics packages.
 
Bill Jennings said:
A picture of my Mooney on the grass at Gastons that somehow found it's way to Flightaware.
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Nice looking Mooney, Bill. I really like them, but my home field 2100' and grass. Reading the POH has me.... concerned. :lol:
 
James331 said:
A Bo or Mooney can't land on dirt or grass?



Shy if some real tundra tire worthy backcountry work (which hardly anyone does anyways) a mooney or Bo will work just fine.



All these guys think they're billy badass STOL pilots.... And along comes a Bo :yikes:



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K4HQwv6r1uo



At 1:35





Here's one landing at Gastons

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=45Oj-Pjc0To



Little more backcountry Bo



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AmkWh51mGh8



Johnson in a Mooney

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=relLqTbKNh0



Another backcountry Mooney landing

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2sK5onpQ76I







And if you're really going backcountry you don't want a 182 anyways, you're talking a Maule, PA18 (or clone), C180/5, Helio, etc and you'll want to drop some $$ on tundras. But I doubt that's the real mission here.
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Johnson Creek is hardly much of a testimony for a Mooney or a Bonanza. Easy approach, smooth, wide, long runway.

Just about any prop plane can go in there.
 
Brad Z said:
The restarts got heavier. Not a ton of weight gain over the previous years aside from differences in avionics packages.
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What are you expecting for Usable?

What are you planning on hauling?
 
I've never been interested in a seller's price. I'm only interested in what a particular plane is worth to me, which is the value of my ideal plane adjusted for what I'll have to do to this one to make it ideal. But the truth is it's usually cheaper to buy the ideal plane than to re-create it.

I've owned a handful of airplanes. None was for sale when I bought them. I'm down to one. The others? None was for sale when the buyer's bought them. There's no harm in asking.
 
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If I recall the 1979 Q has wet wings instead of bladders. I would be looking for a 1979 or later for that reason. P
 
Shawn said:
Agreed...why?

I replaced a bladder on my '73 182P last year and it wasn't enough that I even remember how much it was!
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I have a '75 182P. I haven't had to replace the bladders, but I've certainly researched the effort and its a minor expense, all things considered. Compared with tracking down leaks in a wet wing and resealing the tank, bladders can be a bargain. The issues with trapped water were overblown, and more a reflection of the flush fuel caps that invited water into the tanks.
 
topsail said:
If I recall the 1979 Q has wet wings instead of bladders. I would be looking for a 1979 or later for that reason. P
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I think the other way. Bladders last 40 years, sealed wet wings usually start leaking in 30. Bladder is cheap and easy to replace, wet wings are a horrible chore to reseal.
 
Henning said:
I think the other way. Bladders last 40 years, sealed wet wings usually start leaking in 30. Bladder is cheap and easy to replace, wet wings are a horrible chore to reseal.
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Nobody I know has ever claimed 40 year lifespans from bladders in Cessnas. Manufacturers will warranty for a range of 5-10, depending on competition and years of manufacture. Most puke at around 20.

Ours missed the warranty period that we have on the new one, because the competition was weaker, back when ours was installed. And there were a few years where they just weren't made well. Our right one fell into those years. Same company today would have covered it. We are on bladder #3 in the right wing and #2 in the left wing.

Still. Even ten years amortized is about $100 a year if you barely get past warranty, and that's peanuts compared to hunting down leaks in a wet wing. It's nice knowing our right side is good for a looooooong time because with the bladders, you're essentially starting fresh with the entire tank, as long as you also do all the other rubbery bits while you're up in there.

And if it barfs again, the warranty has gotten nice and long.

We await the signs from the left that it's time. It'll happen eventually. No big deal. Mess when they let go, though. Mmm. Blue goo. :)

We also got to replace the venerable Cessna sumps with the flush variety that are a better design under STC for a pittance while we were at it. The old one liked to drip a little once in a while and rebuilding them with new gaskets is a sorta annoying job. Gotta drain it so you can work on it, etc.

Not a huge deal but might as well upgrade while you have it apart. The Eagle STC sumps are way better.

What you really need is a mechanic with freakishly long arms that are also skinny to get that last clip in place. Haha. Stretch Armstrong the youngest guy in the shop who doesn't know any better, is the newbie who comes in handy, especially on the long range tanks. ;)

The senior mechanics just sit back and chuckle while he cusses and reaches. If they like him they'll show him some tricks to get 'er done. :)
 
I guess I got lucky with my Travelair, I replaced the 1958 bladders in the late 90s.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
So, we've settled on a 182P or 182Q. We have cash on hand and no financing required. We are comfortable with an $80-85k outlay and still have room for reserves.

However, it seems many people are smoking crack on their prices. For example, many in the $70-90K range:

  • Within 100 hours of TBO, with 20% of them past TBO.
  • Original, non-upgraded avionics. Basic IFR stuff going on.
  • Original interior, owner rated as 6-7, but should be 3-5.
  • Original paint, granted many of them have always been hangered and in good shape.

There are two of us in this partnership. The other partner is an A&P. We are ok if we need to tear out the interior and can do it ourselves. We are good upgrading the avionics stack (my A&P buddy wouldn't do it, but we'd pick the stack carefully and have a reputable shop do it).

Using the NAAA price guide from trade-a-plane, the prices listed are at or above the NAAA price guide range. After putting in the details of a few planes (takes a while), the estimated price is several 10's of K below the asking price. Is this normal? For example, saw one listed for $89 key, estimated to be $64k. Is this gap normal?

I don't want to be one those 'low-ballers', but how to avoid this? Obviously, the plane will need to be appraised - but I don't want to spend a few hundred dollars on that if the seller won't come done. I know there are several posts here about sellers not wanting to come down - attachment, etc etc.

So, how does one get around the chicken an egg? Since I'm California, the average distance is at least 5+ states away. After looking at pictures, digital logs, do I make a low-ball offer pending an appraisal? Then after we settle the price contingent on pre-buy?

Too many chicken & eggs. Which order goes first?

But here's the deal. Many of the 182's I've been finding in the listings are being sold by dealers. How do I go about getting a good plane, at a fair price to the seller without paying the markup to the reseller? Obviously, I would need to find the person selling the plane before a reseller does. I have the cash and ready to buy. I just don't want to part with more than I have too and I want a good example.

Arggg. Frustrating! :mad2:
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I am having similar issues looking for an Archer II. Everyone is wanting $60-70K for a mid time engine, old avionics. I have nice 400 hr SMOH Warrior. No 430W but everything else. I figure that it might be worth $40K probably less. How is 20 more HP worth an extra $30K :dunno: Arrows are going for less. Maybe I show get one of those instead.
 
Part of that you can thank on the inflation the government says we don't have. Prices bottomed a while ago...
 
Henning said:
I guess I got lucky with my Travelair, I replaced the 1958 bladders in the late 90s.
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Beat ya! ;)

My 1958 C182A got new bladders for the first time during the complete restoration in 2003-4. There was a very noticeable difference 'twixt the quality/thickness of the originals and the replacements though and I don't expect near the same 45 year lifespan out of the new ones.
 
timwinters said:
Beat ya! ;)



My 1958 C182A got new bladders for the first time during the complete restoration in 2003-4. There was a very noticeable difference 'twixt the quality/thickness of the originals and the replacements though and I don't expect near the same 45 year lifespan out of the new ones.
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The rubber quality is lower on the new stuff. It's why they went for a while to 5 year warranties across the board and then competition pushed them back to 10.
 
That engine is a little long in the tooth for 77k
 
James331 said:
That engine is a little long in the tooth for 77k
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That's kind of what I thought too, until I started looking seriously for a 182. And if you look at the OP's research:

However, it seems many people are smoking crack on their prices. For example, many in the $70-90K range:

  • Within 100 hours of TBO, with 20% of them past TBO.
  • Original, non-upgraded avionics. Basic IFR stuff going on.
  • Original interior, owner rated as 6-7, but should be 3-5.
  • Original paint, granted many of them have always been hangered and in good shape.
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This plane has around 225 TBO left. It has a 530 and other semi-modern avionics, including an auto pilot. And it looks like it has been painted in the not to distant past.

And the $77k is just the asking price. If I were still looking, I would probably offer around $69k and save for a new engine over the next couple of years. And get a good pre-buy.
 
TazzyTazzy said:
Thanks everyone for the feedback. It's much appreciated.

If anyone is near Sacramento and is available sometime to show me their plane, I'd really appreciate it. Maybe we can do a lap around the pattern or something - nearby $75 hamburger run? :) I'd totally appreciate it so I can learn about different planes better. Looking at the numbers online is totally different then sitting in one.
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I'm in Oroville and would happily let you buy me lunch after a fly in the Bo !!!
But, a word of warning. Once you have flown the Bonanza, no way will you ever think of buying a 182.
Stephen.
 
Bonanza said:
I'm in Oroville and would happily let you buy me lunch after a fly in the Bo !!!
But, a word of warning. Once you have flown the Bonanza, no way will you ever think of buying a 182.
Stephen.
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:lol: There is a fair bit of truth there.
 
Bonanza said:
I'm in Oroville and would happily let you buy me lunch after a fly in the Bo !!!
But, a word of warning. Once you have flown the Bonanza, no way will you ever think of buying a 182.
Stephen.
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+1 on that.
 
Bonanza said:
I'm in Oroville and would happily let you buy me lunch after a fly in the Bo !!!
But, a word of warning. Once you have flown the Bonanza, no way will you ever think of buying a 182.
Stephen.
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one caveat to that. You can't park your boat under the wing of a bonanza.
 
JHW said:
one caveat to that. You can't park your boat under the wing of a bonanza.
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I am trying to figure why on earth you would want to park your boat under the wing of your airplane?
Duh!!! maybe you keep your boat in your hangar. That would make sense.
Stephen.
 
Bonanza said:
I am trying to figure why on earth you would want to park your boat under the wing of your airplane?
Duh!!! maybe you keep your boat in your hangar. That would make sense.
Stephen.
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sort of. My wife has a boat and I store it in a hangar we rent at the airport. The cost is pretty steep as far as boat storage goes, and I really don't like spending that money. Contrast that with my airplane, which lives happily in the leftover space in the boat storage hangar. The airplane storage costs the family nothing.
 

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JHW said:
sort of. My wife has a boat and I store it in a hangar we rent at the airport. The cost is pretty steep as far as boat storage goes, and I really don't like spending that money. Contrast that with my airplane, which lives happily in the leftover space in the boat storage hangar. The airplane storage costs the family nothing.
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But your plane is a low-wing, so what is your point?
Stephen.
 
Bonanza said:
I'm in Oroville and would happily let you buy me lunch after a fly in the Bo !!!
But, a word of warning. Once you have flown the Bonanza, no way will you ever think of buying a 182.
Stephen.
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You have a PM.
 
JOhnH said:
If I were still looking, I would probably offer around $69k and save for a new engine over the next couple of years. And get a good pre-buy.
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Yup. Still looking. I'm still finding a few people are trying to get out of GA after flying for 20-30-40 years of flying. They think they are still sitting on gold with the run out engines and old dying avionics.

"Oh, one the KX radios died.. But I'm sure you can still sell it for a good amount when you upgrade... Oh, I can't figure out how to email you pictures, I'll send you a CD ROM that a took with a 1990's flip phone camera."

Thankfully my CDROM player still works. It only gets used....never.

Seriously...I got a CDROM. Nice guy to talk to..but think he's sitting on a nice retirement nest egg.
 
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