Wow - South Florida has some bad cops

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
You gotta see this video. Talk about abuse of authority.

http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_033170755.html

transcript of one of the videos:
tester: Yeah, I wanted to find out how to file a complaint against an officer. I just want to find out how you do it. Do you guys have a form or something that I could take with me.
officer: Well, you got to tell me first, and then I got to hear what's going on. You've got to tell me what the complaint is.
tester: Do you have a complaint form that I can, like, fill out or something like that?
officer: Might not be a legitimate complaint.
tester: Who decides that?
officer: I'm trying to help you.
tester: Like, if there's a form, why can't I just take it and leave, right?
officer: No, you don't leave with forms. You tell me what happened, and then I help you from there. Do you have I-D on?
tester: Why?
officer: You know what? You need to leave.
tester: Why?
officer: I'm going to tell you one more time, because I can't do this anymore with you, okay. You're refusing to tell me what you want to do, okay. You're refusing to tell me who's involved, where it happened, what transpired. You'e not cooperating iwth me one bit.
tester: I was just asking if you guys have a complaint form, like if there's some way for me --
officer: Out of my way.
tester: To contact Internal Affairs.
officer: You can do whatever the hell you want. It's a free country.
man" You're cursing at me.
officer: Where do you live? Where do you live? You have to tell me where you live, what your name is, or anything like that.
tester: For a complaint? I mean, like, if I have --
officer: Are you on medications?
tester: Why would you ask me something like that?
officer: Because you're not answering any of my questions.
tester: Am I on medications?
officer: I asked you. It's a free country. I can ask you that.
tester: Okay, you're right.
officer: So you're not going to tell me who you are, you're not going to tell me what the problem is.You're not going to identify yourself.
tester: All I asked you was, like, how do I contact --
officer: You said you have a complaint. You say my officers are acting in an inappropriate manner.
officer: So leave now. Leave now. Leave now.
tester: I'm not doing anything wrong.
officer: Neither am I. It's a free country.
officer: I'm not in your face. I'm standing on the sidewalk. It's a free country. One more step forward, and you'll see what happens. Take one more step forward.)
 
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That's unreal. Talk about absolute abuse of power. I hope they can these guys.
 
It's February - sweeps month. TV advertising rates are set based, in part, on viewership during Feb. That's why you see all the Olympic coverage in Feb... and why the news reports focus on attention-getting stories.
 
wsuffa said:
It's February - sweeps month. TV advertising rates are set based, in part, on viewership during Feb. That's why you see all the Olympic coverage in Feb... and why the news reports focus on attention-getting stories.
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And here I was thinking the reason we see Olympic coverage in Feb is because.... the Olympics occur in Feb.:yes:
 
lancefisher said:
And here I was thinking the reason we see Olympic coverage in Feb is because.... the Olympics occur in Feb.:yes:
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If you live in the southern hemisphere were the Olympics that were just held in Torino this month actually the Summer Olympics?? B)
 
lancefisher said:
And here I was thinking the reason we see Olympic coverage in Feb is because.... the Olympics occur in Feb.:yes:
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You don't think that it's all about the money?
:)
 
smigaldi said:
If you live in the southern hemisphere were the Olympics that were just held in Torino this month actually the Summer Olympics?? B)
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That's an interesting point. What if Chile won a bid for the Winter Olympics? Would it be in July?
 
Sounds to me like a person (cops ARE people, ya know) who was fed up with another person being a pain in the butt. The pain in the butt asked if there was a form, was told no, was asked if they had a complaint they wanted to file, then behaved in an obtuse manner.

Where is it written that cops have any more obligation than anyone else to be nice to knuckleheads?
 
Joe Williams said:
Where is it written that cops have any more obligation than anyone else to be nice to knuckleheads?
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Written? I'm not sure about written, but my brother the cop tells me that he is expected to be polite and helpful to citizens at all times (unless they're fighting him, of course).

I remember being on a ride-along with him and we had to deal with a woman who was a religious zealot who was being evicted from her hotel room for failure to pay. He was polite throughout, though she was clearly loony.

We DO expect more from our police officers.
 
Joe Williams said:
Sounds to me like a person (cops ARE people, ya know) who was fed up with another person being a pain in the butt. The pain in the butt asked if there was a form, was told no, was asked if they had a complaint they wanted to file, then behaved in an obtuse manner.

Where is it written that cops have any more obligation than anyone else to be nice to knuckleheads?
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Joe, I agree that cops are people, but this was more than one cop in more than one place.

If I ask for something and they don't have it, I say thanks and move on. I don't expect to be grilled; I asked a simple question. The one cop who found an issue with the reporters tail light...how petty, especially in Florida - the land where auto inspections and helmet laws do not exist.
 
Joe Williams said:
Sounds to me like a person (cops ARE people, ya know) who was fed up with another person being a pain in the butt. The pain in the butt asked if there was a form, was told no, was asked if they had a complaint they wanted to file, then behaved in an obtuse manner.

Where is it written that cops have any more obligation than anyone else to be nice to knuckleheads?
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A polite explaination of the process that did exist (assuming the form didn't) would have worked - certainly better than being told to leave, and pursued down the sidewalk by an ARMED officer who basically threatened force.

"We don't have a generic form sir, but you are welcome to lodge a complaint. You can do that with verbally with me, or my supervisor (Sergeant X) or his Supervisor, (Captain Y). You can also discuss it with any other officer if you wish. If you would prefer to do it in writing, please address it to Captain Z, Yahoo Police Department, Yahoo, Florida 12345. Alternatively, if you are uncomfortable discussing it with officers in this station, you can call Internal Affairs directly at xxx-xxx-xxxx or write them at IAD, Complaints Department, #1 The Big House, Miami Florida, and they can handle the complaint from there. "

Given that it didn't appear to be isolated to a specific few stations, I'm guessing there is a policy/training issue at play - perhaps the officers were frustrated at not having 'No there isn't a form' taken for an answer, but then had they explained what process WAS available, instead of demanding ID, or chasing the guy with a gun, they may have come across as a little more reasonable. There is NO excuse however, for some of the behaviour exhibited.
 
Guys and Gals, I am going through police training here in Florida right now and because of a few officers that step beyond there bounds it certainly is not how every officer acts. I also caution that these tapes are highly edited and it does not show the whole story. Remember it is sweeps week. I also remind you that these officer I am sure had their six sense going off that something wasn’t right, as I am sure this whole interview was some what suspect to them. Now I am not making excuses for some of those that went well beyond what they should of but please remember not to blame all of this on all officers out there. I can ensure you that we are trained to have integrity, responsibility, and good communications skills.
 
robsingles said:
Guys and Gals, I am going through police training here in Florida right now and because of a few officers that step beyond there bounds it certainly is not how every officer acts. I also caution that these tapes are highly edited and it does not show the whole story. Remember it is sweeps week. I also remind you that these officer I am sure had their six sense going off that something wasn’t right, as I am sure this whole interview was some what suspect to them. Now I am not making excuses for some of those that went well beyond what they should of but please remember not to blame all of this on all officers out there. I can ensure you that we are trained to have integrity, responsibility, and good communications skills.
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You'll notice of course, that the subject says "some" not "South Florida cops are bad."

The point is this: Whether its admitted by police officers or not, I know there is a brotherhood amongst a lot of cops (read: not all) and that they would be willing to stop something from going to the right people if it meant that a police officer would lose their job.

Why, then, would a person be stopped from giving the information to someone in Internal Affairs, or at least someone who is not directly associated with the police officer in question?

Even more, why would a police officer chase someone off the property and then grab their gun and threaten the person? Later in the video, if y'all got that far, a police officer and his partner very obviously threaten to give the person a moving violation if he pursued the questioning?

What about the officer who kept demanding that the guy give him his ID. He has the ID handed towards the officer, who is acting like he is refusing to cooperate. Just an example of a police doing a fine job towards a knucklehead? Even if a chunk was cut out where the reporter broke the law somewhere, the police officer was creating his own justification for something....what would have happened had the reporter not tipped that he was doing a story?

This is sweeps week, and obviously, that's why this story came out. It certainly doesn't make what the cops did here any better. I want to see the police cheifs in southern Florida denounce this kind of behavior.
 
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As a very frequent visitor to Miami, I've been watching this for a while.
It's an ongoing thing Channel 4 has been doing.

I think part of being a law enforcement officer is maintaining your cool
and being professional in all dealings with the public. While a lot of this
doesn't put them in a good light, it's hard to know everything that
transpired and seems a little strange that so many different departments
would react that way unless provoked in some manner by the reporter.
 
Apparently one of the officers involved filed a lawsuit against the station to get an injunction for them to stop airing the segment.

http://cbs4.com/video/?cid=74

Temporary injunction was denied. His was the video where he placed his hand on his gun after following the guy out of the police station.
 
wbarnhill said:
Apparently one of the officers involved filed a lawsuit against the station to get an injunction for them to stop airing the segment.

http://cbs4.com/video/?cid=74

Temporary injunction was denied. His was the video where he placed his hand on his gun after following the guy out of the police station.
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Haven't had a chance to watch the video yet but I read the transcript. Did the officer actually have his hand on his firearm as he followed the guy outside? Unbelievable!
 
Frank Browne said:
Haven't had a chance to watch the video yet but I read the transcript. Did the officer actually have his hand on his firearm as he followed the guy outside? Unbelievable!
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Watch it Frank, it is ....interesting.

We do not see some of the stuff before it heats up but one thing for sure, by the time that the video rolls for us this Sgt. is loosing his cool.
 
smigaldi said:
Watch it Frank, it is ....interesting.

We do not see some of the stuff before it heats up but one thing for sure, by the time that the video rolls for us this Sgt. is loosing his cool.
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Watched it last night at home. We're not allowed to do that at work. Aside from the issue of not having a convenient mechanism for regeristing complaints against officers, some of the ones in the video appeared relatively reasonable, however that first guy, and at least one other, IMHO should NOT be in possession of a badge and gun.:hairraise:
 
Frank Browne said:
Watched it last night at home. We're not allowed to do that at work. Aside from the issue of not having a convenient mechanism for regeristing complaints against officers, some of the ones in the video appeared relatively reasonable, however that first guy, and at least one other, IMHO should NOT be in possession of a badge and gun.:hairraise:
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We had a rash of complaints against a whole dept when a nearby town first hired there own PD. Multiple complaints from many people to no avail. Finally, it became an agenda item for the city council and it was put down PDQ.

I got a speeding ticket for 31 mph in a 30 zone. My girlfriend got the same ticket twice within one week. I happened to walk past a bar one night when a officer stopped me on the sidewalk and started in on a sobriety test. I said I was simply walking from the laundry matte to the corner store for change. He said I was being abusive. Because I didn't have my driver's license on me he said Iwas driving without a license as he pointed to a car parked on the curb (not my car). The watch commander was condescending and placating when I tried to make a formal complaint. Stuff like that...
 
In my business I get to know a lot of police officers, a LOT. You don't do what I or Jim G do and not get to know them. I have several clients who are police officers and some whom I consider good friends. There are of course others whom I wouldn't give spit to clean a pair of glasses. Power does have the ability to corrupt or turn one into bullies. The ones on the video are clearly that way and are probably in a system or department that either permits it or encourages it. The Cops I associate with personally, are twice as offended by the type of behavior on these tapes as joe citizen would be.

Cops truly are like any other person its just that they have emense power that others don't have

IMHO the cops on the video weren't provoked all that bad if at all. I think Steve has it right above.
 
I'd like to see the full unedited versions of that video. My first reaction is: Idiots! In any department I've ever worked for or with, they'd all be sitting in front of a disciplinary panel right about now.

BUT, I've seen too many news "special reports" on too many incidents that I've had a hand in working and wonder if I was really seeing a report on the same incident. I mean, nothing was even close to being factually reported, and the video was edited to fit the reporters story instead of the reporter reporting the facts.

That being said, I don't see how the video of the "officer" demanding the man to place the ID in between his fingers (when the guy was obviously trying to comply) while saying over and over "Give me your ID" could have been edited to make it look anything but what it was: Rude, unprofessional behavior. And if the guy worked for me and he treated ANYBODY that way, he'd be doing crosswalk duty for the rest of his career.

The first story looks to have the original contact edited out. We begin the video with the duty sergeant already talking to the guy and obviously very frustrated. So I don't think we are seeing the sergeant frustrated merely because the gentleman was asking for a form that didn't exist. Don't get me wront, I'm not excusing his actions at all. He too acted unprofessionally from what we see on the video regardless of his reasons, but I would like to see the whole thing unedited to try to figure out why he started acting the way he did. I suspect he'll probably see disciplinary action (most likely rightly so) even if he was "baited".

There are very large numbers of police departments that don't have printed forms for filing a complaint on an officer. Most that I know of do have written policies and can provide a citizen a copy of them upon request and do so with no questions asked. The only requirement is that the complaint be in writing, ie a letter, a fax etc. It's not much different that a citizen filing a complaint against another citizen if they expect some action to be taken.. Same requirements.

AdamZ is right. MOST police officers I know are top notch professionals who would be very offended by this video (and I was! - and I made it required viewing by my investigators today). But unfortunately, there are those who let the power go their heads. Thankfully in my experience it's been more of the former rather than the latter.
 
ausrere said:
/snip/

AdamZ is right. MOST police officers I know are top notch professionals who would be very offended by this video (and I was! - and I made it required viewing by my investigators today). But unfortunately, there are those who let the power go their heads. Thankfully in my experience it's been more of the former rather than the latter.
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Lisa, I'm going to ask you to clarify your comments.

Insert 'pilots' where you said police officers. Does it make a difference? And by what manner do the very offended police officers police their own? Maybe we as pilots can learn something here towards mounting a defense against buffoon GA pilots.
 
Richard said:
Lisa, I'm going to ask you to clarify your comments.

Insert 'pilots' where you said police officers. Does it make a difference? And by what manner do the very offended police officers police their own? Maybe we as pilots can learn something here towards mounting a defense against buffoon GA pilots.
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I'm not exactly sure what your asking, but I don't think it makes a difference. Pilots who see other pilots doing bonehead stuff should be offended enough to do something about it. It makes all pilots look bad and it shouldn't be tolerated IMHO.

As far as LEO's policing their own, it happens on a daily basis. Some of it is minor “bad day” stuff where you pull your fellow LEO aside and council them on why what they did was stupid. That works with minor issues for the most part, but major stuff..like these goofs in the news video... a little heart to heart chat won't work. With those, any decent officer worth his or her salt will report it to the closest supervisor. And trust me, I've done it over the years even though it was very difficult to do. There are a few individuals who are no longer in the field because of it and that made it worth it.

We discussed this same issue today at lunch. We debated why we seem to recall working with more "bad" officers years ago and not so many today (even though the press would have you believe otherwise sometimes). We all came to the conclusion it's two things: One, the screening process and requirements are much more stringent today than they were when we started, and two: just about every officer on the streets today has a camera in his/her car and mic on his/her belt recording everything they do.. so you have accountability and a real easy and quick process to weed out the bad ones early.

I'm not sure how to translate that to pilots. Can't really put a video camera in every GA plane, but ALL pilots should step up and be willing to say/do something about boneheads who ruin the fun for the rest of us.
 
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larrysb said:
I think we see here a prime example of "Outrage Journalism."

There is probably some truth to the problem in the police stations. However, it is pretty clear that the TV news crew staged this in a manner to create maximum drama, because February is of course, sweeps month.

"Hey, go in that police station with the hidden camera and do everything you can to p*** off the cop at the counter. Then we'll snip out the juiciest 5 seconds for the news tonight."
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There's likely some truth to that, but there's something that makes me think we saw most of the whole story. If the "civilian" had provoked the officer(s) with something else and then launched into the "how do I file a complaint" I think the officer in question would have said something about the provoking behavior left off camera because it would be natural for him to assume the complaint was about his response to the earlier provocation, yet there was no such mention.

Also, IMO short of threats or physical attack etc, a professional LEO should be able refrain from bullying or intimidating a citizen.
 
I might add the Chief Timony of the Miami Dade PD who was interviewed on the tape is a Top Notch Cop IMHO. He was chief here in Philly and it was a sad day when he left. He would never tolerate such crap.
 
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