Would the examiner be required to let you use foreflight on a checkride?

What are you going to use after the checkride? Use that.

Be prepared for anything to fail, no different on the checkride than in real life.

You are much better off training and being tested on the stuff you will use after the rating than dumbing it down for the checkride and then learning current tools in the real world. If you're using the same tools you plan to use in the real work and barf the ride, that's OK. Better than losing it after you've been signed off.

Maybe it's the old military guy in me, but train like you'll fight.
 
...and the concept of "dumbing down" for the checkride seems foolish to me to start with. If you're not comfortable enough to be using something for the checkride, you really have no business using it in real life.

Yep, that has never really made any sense to me, especially with an instrument rating, train with the equipment you are going to use. The rating isn't about getting a rating, it's about being safe and at a standard of proficiency acceptable for hauling passengers. If you take your test with just a pair of 155s in the panel and intend to fly a G-1000 or even a GNS stack plane, you will gain the rating but not meet the true criteria without another 20 hrs of training on the radio. It would have been more efficient to spend 50hrs on training the first time around and trained with the final equipment.
 
I always carry paper backups for charts and plates even though I have an iPad with FF and a portable Garmin 696 GPS with approach plates and en route IFR charts so if I suffer two electrically failures my paper backs me up. Also have my iPhone so triple redundancy. I have had a panel Garmin GPS fail on me so like having paper as backup.
 
I used FF on my IR check ride and the DPE said it is perfectly fine. In fact, he said he had ditched paper as well.

But I did carry a backup iPad too. I had it up to date and ready to go. If he had failed my main iPad I would have swapped and kept on going.


An iPhone or other smartphone serves as an easy backup as well.
 
Because they're hard to find these days!

Lot less pilot shops these days, that's true, but that is mostly due to this new marketing tool called the Internet where you can get anything in the world from your living room. Luckily I have one of the country's best pilot shops down the street.
 
I've had this discussion with three DPEs. All said they would allow it, but you better have a backup. I asked if a second iPad qualified as a backup and all said yes. They also said that a candidate still better be able to estimate distance, bearing, and ETE using a paper chart.
 
If you're using something as a crutch, he's going to fail it.
 
You can use Foreflight. Just make sure you have a back up in case your examiner decides to fail one of your units.
 
For the life of me I can't understand
1) why this question keeps coming up
2) anyone would trust their life to a consumer device. yes, we've had this discussion before, I know.
3) after spending $thousands on instrument training, anyone is perturbed to spend $20 on paper for anything

Just can't fix stupid.
 
Would that mean that I fail the checkride if I don't have backups (again, they're not actually required by law). :redface:
Yes. You'll fail on "Judgment". Your backup could be paper, or ForeFlight on your iPhone or a second iPad, or JeppView on your G1000, or any of a number of other options, but if you show up for a practical test with nothing for charts other than one EFB, you're going to fail the test. That said, EFB failure in flight is not part of the IR PTS, so the examiner should not "fail" it in the air as long as you have already demonstrated on the ground that you have an adequate backup.
 
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Holy F'n crap, man. Technology is great! But you should be prepared to operate without it.
Think engine failure, alternator failure , vacuum pump failure, etc.,
the very fact that you think using modern electronic whiz bang gadgets on a pilot performance test speaks loudly to our current state of electronic addiction.
 
I had georegistered charts on my checkride. It wasn't a problem.
Of course I did have backup paper ones.

Just because it's not required for regular flight doesn't mean you can escape it on the checkride.
 
That's what I'll do. And I'm betting that if I have some backup paper charts/plates with me, he'll let me use Foreflight the entire time. However, if I DON'T have them, he'll 'fail' the equipment just to prove a point.


That was the working theory on my ride and it held true. He asked, "What would you do if that failed?" I said I had paper in the bag. (Thanks to Jesse... Who was kind enough to print all the local plates for me. I was a lot of miles away from my printer. But I still now print myself plates and shove them in the bag for the destination and alternate(s). Cheap insurance. Throw them away after the flight or whenever I get around to cleaning the flight bag up for another real trip.)

He says, "What if you can't reach it?" I said I'd use the phone.

"And if it's dead?" ... I'd make sure I was at a safe altitude first and start asking for help from the controllers, and/or head for better weather if within fuel range, and/or ... rattled off a few other ideas. Flight planning stuff you should already know or have asked if the weather itself is "simulated".

The iPad was never "failed". And the conversation probably made up one of the "realistic distractions" and by then we were turning inbound for another approach. Or maybe that was during the divert to a different airport that itself was aborted halfway through after he got my thought process out of me for that. I forget.

I also specifically asked if he wanted geo-referencing off at the beginning of the flight because I would prefer not mess with iPad settings once aloft. I followed that with I understood it could not be used for primary nav. I was not required to "fail" that piece either.

I flew the steam gauges and made a comment once that it was nice to have the geo-referencing for a cross check but he would have easily caught it if I'd lost the picture on the needles and used the iPad to fix it. No doubt.

All depends on the DPE. Go prepared to not use the toys, they'll easily know if you're relying on them too much. Try to BS them about it, it'll "fail".

Keep the needles centered and use the panel as primary and I bet most will leave it alone. Some will fail it just to do it. Can't really tell. Doesn't matter. The panel wins. Every time.

To be honest, I had been flying with geo-referencing off so much with Jesse I probably under-relied on it. I wasn't even looking at the blue dot unless I concentrated on specifically using it in the scan. It didn't even register at all during the first approach. I was busy figuring out how much the wind aloft was messing with me to correct better on the next ones.
 
When I did my PPL checkride, I just expected the 496 GPS (the only one in the plane) to fail.. I didn't even program it...

When the ride was over and we were heading back to the airport, "why didn't you program the GPS"
me: "I just assumed you would fail it, and I don't use it a lot."
"Do you know how to use it? Turn it on and tell me the heading and distance to the airport and the nearest 2 airports"
of course I could do that, it just wasn't even needed for what we were doing... SO I never even turned it on...
 
I'll let the student use their iPad as their chart source after they've used paper for awhile. The school actual forbids iPad usage until a certain point.

I'll teach and mandate my students fly the approaches without using the GPS Nav functions. They are free to use the nearest pages for DME. After I feel they have mastered IFR without the GPS I'll permit them to use the overlay and Nav functions. Now if they fixate or mess with the GPS at a critical time I will, and have, removed their GPS privileges.

Had one student try to reprogram the GPS overlay when I changed approaches, ILS to VOR, on him. He would have flown straight into a mountain willfully ignorant. He got a good tongue lashing for that.
 
I print the plates off of approaches at Destination & alternate for back up. Belt & suspenders.
 
The school actual forbids iPad usage until a certain point.

Wouldn't it be just as effective asking the student to turn GPS off during flight training and use an old paper chart for ground school? They can learn the fundamentals without spending money in updating charts.
 
Haven't gotten it yet (haven't even purchased an ipad yet) but I intend to get the $75 a year standard foreflight.

Do you realize you can get WingX for $67 a year if you purchase the three years for $200 option and WingX has way more features for the money in the base subscription than FF. I would suggest that you download the 30 day free trials for WingX, FF and Garmin Pilot, put them all through the paces IN THE AIR, then make your decision. I found that what I thought was neat flying the LaZboy in the den, was not what worked best in a bouncing plane with glare on the screen.

Going back to your original question, I purchased a C150 back in the early 80's to learn to fly. It only had one Nav/Com so I installed a Loran radio for navigation. It was very simular to GPS except it performed its calculations from ground based stations instead of satelites and did not have moving map displays. When I went to take my checkride, the examiner asked me to turn it off for the checkride to prove that I could navigate without it and demonstrate that I knew how to use VORs. It would be wise for you to be prepared if the examiner asks you to turn off your iPad. It is certainly within his rights to simulate a malfinction with your iPad and ask you to turn it off.
 
When I did my IFR checkride I had paper charts and 2 ipads. He asked to see my backups - I showed him paper, ipad 1, ipad 2, and if push came to shove I have a garmin 796 in the back. He was satisfied and let me do what I wanted...
 
I had done my check rides with only a notepad, paper charts, and a pair of pens. I use the aircraft instruments to navigate and from time to time call out that I am using pilotage and dead reckoning and point out land marks etc. this way the DPE knows that I have full situational awareness and will not bug me further (fail gps, etc). My ipad and backup radio are stashed in my flight bag. I use my ipad when flying for myself as trying to fiddle with an extra non aviation toy during a check ride is just an extra distraction, specially when flying approaches back to back. In other words Demonstrate complete Situational Awareness at all times and you won't get bugged (equipment failed) on a check ride.
 
An iPhone or other smartphone serves as an easy backup as well.

Yeah on a given cross country with my wife and kids I will have four iPads and two iPhones, any 3 or 4 of which will have ForeFlight and WingX.

Sincerely,

-iWhore

:D
 
Yeah on a given cross country with my wife and kids I will have four iPads and two iPhones, any 3 or 4 of which will have ForeFlight and WingX.

Sincerely,

-iWhore

:D

Shame on you for stealing the kids' iPads....for flying no less.
:D
 
My Checkride was 2 weeks ago... pass.

I was allowed to use ForeFlight as a charting, mapping, and flight planning tool. I was required to turn off the little airplane (GPS function). In the oral, because I brought ForeFlight, it became fair game for the DPE. She did ask me several questions about the app (she was a heavy FF user, too) and also was happy that I did not just whip up a flight plan using Foreflight only (I also did it the old fashioned way).

They appreciate when you use tools for real life (remember, this is a PRACTICAL test), but if you don't know how to use them properly, or are dumbed down by them, you will fail. A good example is the winds aloft calculation that Foreflight does. If you take ETE and fuel burn at ForeFlight's word, you'll be in trouble.

-Andrew
 
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