Winter Mountain flying is ... interesting.

[genna]

This weekend my friend and I flew to Lake Placid(LKP) for some winter fun.

This was definitely entertaining. 95% of the flight was completely smooth, but that approach and landing were a handful. Up to 5000 foot peaks around the airport, 1700ft field elevation, 4000ft runway full of ice next to the hill with 1100ft displaced threshold. Oh, and 18-27kts wind at the field level(thankfully down the runway) with 60 over the peaks at 7500. All while doing a GPS-A approach due to cloud layers around the mountains. Even turn my TKS on just in case(it was too cold for icing and only a few minutes in the clouds).

Man, it's a wild ride. Had to go around once due to being too hot and high on final, but it was a pretty good experience. Nothing like sliding sideways on ice while taxiing.

Still, I could use some mountain lessons.

p.s. I had a very good way out about 15 miles away(not in the mountains) and the airport itself was VFR.

 

[denverpilot]

Still, I could use some mountain lessons.

I'll do your first mountain lesson for free, right here... right now...

"Don't fly in the mountains in light aircraft when the winds aloft at the mountain top level are blowing 60."

 

[genna]

I'll do your first mountain lesson for free, right here... right now...

"Don't fly in the mountains in light aircraft when the winds aloft at the mountain top level are blowing 60."

I was actually thinking exactly that as I was looking at wind speed on the approach. Thankfully, you never get low enough to the range itself and the wind was coming from the side, so i was never in any downdraft. Just a lot of turbulence. But i was definitely ready to get the hell out of there.

 

[Zeldman]

2nd mountain flying lesson: Dress like you will have to walk home. Just in case the unthinkable happens, like the heater quits heating.

 

[genna]

2nd mountain flying lesson: Dress like you will have to walk home. Just in case the unthinkable happens, like the heater quits heating.

We were going skiing in 10F weather on Whiteface mountain. So that was not an issue.

 

[genna]

Eek! I bet you felt like you had just hopped off the Georgia Cyclone at Six Flags after that one (give me some Advil!).

What were you flying?

Yep. Funny enough though, right after we landed we went straight to the Olympic complex to go down the ice in a bobsled .

SR22

 

[MtnMarcus]

I'll do your first mountain lesson for free, right here... right now...

"Don't fly in the mountains in light aircraft when the winds aloft at the mountain top level are blowing 60."

Yes that!!! Wow. 25 at mtn top level is my threshold

 

[labbadabba]

Yep. Funny enough though, right after we landed we went straight to the Olympic complex to go down the ice in a bobsled .

SR22

Man, how was THAT!! I begged my wife for years to head up there and do the bobsled. Bucket list item for me.

 

[genna]

Man, how was THAT!! I begged my wife for years to head up there and do the bobsled. Bucket list item for me.

In a word, awesome. It's about 60% of the track(new track), so you only get to about 50mph. Starts pretty calm and slow at first. Almost disappointingly so for a few seconds. Like a slow train pulling from the station. But, once the thing gets up the speed, turns just fly at you. You really have to experience it. They also do skeleton apparently.... i'm debating that for the next year maybe.

 

[Clark1961]

Yes that!!! Wow. 25 at mtn top level is my threshold

Sixty kts dropping to thirty kts in two or three thousand feet is a pretty good shear/turbulence zone. The other thing to think about is windward side downdrafts. Not a lot of talk/teaching/research but it’s apparently real and the cause is still debated. With high winds, solar heating, and pressure differences across the ridge be a little bit careful. Might not even need the high winds, just strong differences in solar heating.

 

[genna]

Sixty kts dropping to thirty kts in two or three thousand feet is a pretty good shear/turbulence zone. The other thing to think about is windward side downdrafts. Not a lot of talk/teaching/research but it’s apparently real and the cause is still debated. With high winds, solar heating, and pressure differences across the ridge be a little bit careful. Might not even need the high winds, just strong differences in solar heating.

This is the approach. There was not much sun in the area and everything was covered in snow, so i don't think solar heating was too much of a concern. Closer to the airport, the wind was basically getting in that valley and then going up the hill(so not so much sheer but an updraft). The vertical path keeps me pretty high above the ridges. Near CELVU and HEDUX i think i got most of that turbulence due to peaks left of the path. And then some closer to the airport, but at lower altitude the wind speed was a lot lower and direct headwind.

an interesting thing about this approach is that circling limit is 600ft above pattern altitude. I saw the runway at around 3800. The GPS 14(MDA a little lower) from the other side would probably be smoother, but with the wind direction, i didn't want to worry about being pushed into the mountain if i had to go missed. as it was, my ground speed was around 70kts around FAF

Incidentally, the obstruction right near the runway is the ski jumps. Those things are a lot taller than they look on TV. Wish my passenger took pictures

https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1803/pdf/09371RA.PDF

 

[Clark1961]

This is the approach. There was not much sun in the area and everything was covered in snow, so i don't think solar heating was too much of a concern. Closer to the airport, the wind was basically getting in that valley and then going up the hill(so not so much sheer but an updraft). The vertical path keeps me pretty high above the ridges. Near CELVU and HEDUX i think i got most of that turbulence due to peaks left of the path. And then some closer to the airport, but at lower altitude the wind speed was a lot lower and direct headwind.

an interesting thing about this approach is that circling limit is 600ft above pattern altitude. I saw the runway at around 3800. The GPS 14(MDA a little lower) from the other side would probably be smoother, but with the wind direction, i didn't want to worry about being pushed into the mountain if i had to go missed. as it was, my ground speed was around 70kts around FAF

Incidentally, the obstruction right near the runway is the ski jumps. Those things are a lot taller than they look on TV. Wish my passenger took pictures

https://skyvector.com/files/tpp/1803/pdf/09371RA.PDF

Wind from west-northwest? I’m guessing that from the low groundspeed you mentioned.

 

[genna]

Wind from west-northwest? I’m guessing that from the low groundspeed you mentioned.

just about. 270-300

 

[ejensen]

I'll do your first mountain lesson for free, right here... right now...

"Don't fly in the mountains in light aircraft when the winds aloft at the mountain top level are blowing 60."

I use 30. Turbulence also depends on wind direction.

 

[DavidWhite]

I'll do your first mountain lesson for free, right here... right now...

"Don't fly in the mountains in light aircraft when the winds aloft at the mountain top level are blowing 60."

man, then I’d never fly!

(seriously it’s good advice though)

 

[denverpilot]

man, then I’d never fly!

(seriously it’s good advice though)

Haha.