Wings Program

denverpilot

denverpilot

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Well, I see the FAA sent out the 2012 Wings program survey so might as well bring it up for discussion here...

(I participated in the old Wings program, but since that's ancient history, this is about the current program.)

Personal experience:

Have earned piles of ground "credits", mostly when bored online but also regularly attend non-repetitive intersting seminars. All information good.

However, all of these expire, before bothering with flight credits. No long term credit over any length of time.

Colorado Pilot's Assn Mountain Flying Course counted as a FR (since you work with an individual instructor on an all day flight after an all day ground session and they determine if FR requirements were met), but not listed in Wings at all. Disconnect there. It certainly made me a better and safer pilot.

Instrument Ground School via Gleim was the only Advanced credit ever gained. Piles of seminars around here, virtually nothing qualifies as Advanced. Every flight club gives Wings seminars almost monthly it seems. No depth. Same seminars at three different clubs. FAA "fireside chat" with local tower controllers was far and away the most useful seminar this year.

Got curious and searched the database. Very little Advanced or Master anything for 500 miles, ever. What's the point if you can't progress?

Haven't looked to see what a new rating will do yet. Don't care much. It's already reset the FR date and I'll need IPCs anyway. Maybe they count for something. Haven't looked.

Do like the recent integration with CAP. Enter CAPID number and suddenly a CAP Form 5 checkride counts for something. As well as other standardized checkrides. Only useful thing I've seen out of the program in years.

CFIs rarely mention it or bring it up anywhere than online forums. ;) Never heard any CFI say, "Let's not forget to enter your Wings credits!" More enthusiasm from CFIs seems in order.

FR is more cost-effective when done with a good instructor. Credits seem weak vs. PTS items covered more effectively in one flight for the FR.

Wings seems little more than a reminder to go take a few AOPA online courses once in a while.

Zero insurance company or other incentives. If Advanced or Master were actually attainable, and it provided a significant discount on insurance or some other tangible ROI, the program would be impressive. As it stands, Insurance Companies prefer the private sector simulator companies over Wings.

Discuss. (For Captain. Ha.)
 
Avemco offers a discount involving wings.

I detest the new wings format and the hideous empire building counter-safety attitude of the FAAST organization.
 
Ouch.

I understand Nate's concerns, and a lot of them vary geographically depending on how active CFIs and reps are in the program, but I'm looking around, and I don't see no steenking empire. Ron, what empire is being built? It sure isn't extra paid bodies in the FAA, the FPM or old safety program manager position is vacant in several FSDO's. Everybody else is a volunteer.
 
I started to take the survey and got to a point where I had to go to Wings to verify some info. I dropped it (and sent FAA and email telling them why). I've used Wings, see some good in it, but agree the new format is not working. At first I was enthusiastic and pushed it but don't since I do little instruciton anymore. The old program had lots of particiipation form industry. The new one has none locally.
If you use it weekly, it's probably OK to get around, but if you use it every few months, it gets to be a hassle. One more unique password, a different navigation philosophy.
I asked my insurance broker what I could do to get cheapter rates, as I'm about maxed out on ratings, time, etc. He said do Wings. But, he said, the companies don't ask for it. You have to bring it up at application time.
So, shame on the insurance industry. Maybe Wings should reminds us to be proactive in addressing the issue with the insurance companies. Maybe we should tell the insurance companies to include it in their application forms in an easy to enter manner.
I'm going to try to get more active in it. A CFI friend and I used to use it between us when we gave each other refreshers, did approaches, etc. I need to get back into the habit and remind the insurance.
 
I'm not much of a fan of the new program, either, but have found a way to work it.

I do IPCs for instrument currency. Once a year, sometimes twice, depending on how much flying I'm doing and what conditions. The IPC counts as 2 credits for advanced, one for basic.

So I tell the instructor that we're going to take a few extra minutes and knock-off the tasks in a couple of the other basic and/or advanced credits. It's pretty easy with Basic... Airport Operations (preflight, taxi, hold short, signs, etc) and Takeoffs, Landings, Go-Arounds are also easily done as part of an IPC (do a low approach to a missed on a precision approach, and do a Circle-to-land as a full stop, plus the initial takeoff and final landing). Advanced takes a bit more, but not much time. It can easily be done by adding a few minutes to the IPC.

Get the logbook entries and either ask the instructor to verify online, or find a kindly verifyer (like Tim... thanks!), and it's done.

I agree that the other courses, like mountain flying, should count. That's a hole in the system.
 
Jeez. You gotta love standing in line and inefficiency to play wings program. I don't have a problem with its existence but understand many don't care and don't have the tolerance for sorting credit this and that. Sure run safety seminars, but the label pin/FR credit counting beans part meh.
 
I incorporate Wings credits into my tailwheel training. There are 3 Flight Activities that my training covers except for a couple of maneuvers. I ask my clients if they want to take the extra 20 minutes or so to do these maneuvers so that they can complete all 3 Flight Activities. So far all who were asked opted to do the extra for the credits. The credits are good for a year, so the client can time completing their online courses to update their FR.

All the FRs that I do are done using the Wings program. It works out best all around. It is less expensive for the client and he/she does not have to sit through the ground portion. They do the free online courses at their leisure.

I renewed my CFI using the Wings program in April. I was the 1st and so far the only CFI who has done this at the STL FSDO. It seems that the program is not that fully utilized around here.

I see the Wings program as a win/win for me and my tailwheel clients, they come out to do something fun and get to use the training to update their FR and I can use the same Flight Activities validation to renew my CFI.

Works for me.
 
wsuffa said:
I'm not much of a fan of the new program, either, but have found a way to work it.

I do IPCs for instrument currency. Once a year, sometimes twice, depending on how much flying I'm doing and what conditions. The IPC counts as 2 credits for advanced, one for basic.

So I tell the instructor that we're going to take a few extra minutes and knock-off the tasks in a couple of the other basic and/or advanced credits. It's pretty easy with Basic... Airport Operations (preflight, taxi, hold short, signs, etc) and Takeoffs, Landings, Go-Arounds are also easily done as part of an IPC (do a low approach to a missed on a precision approach, and do a Circle-to-land as a full stop, plus the initial takeoff and final landing). Advanced takes a bit more, but not much time. It can easily be done by adding a few minutes to the IPC.

Get the logbook entries and either ask the instructor to verify online, or find a kindly verifyer (like Tim... thanks!), and it's done.

I agree that the other courses, like mountain flying, should count. That's a hole in the system.
Click to expand...

Mountain flying COULD count... all that's required is for the creator of the course to work with the FAASTEAM rep to get it added and have wings credit assigned.
 
dillardrg said:
I incorporate Wings credits into my tailwheel training. There are 3 Flight Activities that my training covers except for a couple of maneuvers. I ask my clients if they want to take the extra 20 minutes or so to do these maneuvers so that they can complete all 3 Flight Activities. So far all who were asked opted to do the extra for the credits. The credits are good for a year, so the client can time completing their online courses to update their FR.

All the FRs that I do are done using the Wings program. It works out best all around. It is less expensive for the client and he/she does not have to sit through the ground portion. They do the free online courses at their leisure.

I renewed my CFI using the Wings program in April. I was the 1st and so far the only CFI who has done this at the STL FSDO. It seems that the program is not that fully utilized around here.

I see the Wings program as a win/win for me and my tailwheel clients, they come out to do something fun and get to use the training to update their FR and I can use the same Flight Activities validation to renew my CFI.

Works for me.
Click to expand...
This is how it's supposed to work... To be beneficial it requires investment on the part of CFIs and other training providers. That's why it's a thriving program in some places and not in other places.
 
TMetzinger said:
Mountain flying COULD count... all that's required is for the creator of the course to work with the FAASTEAM rep to get it added and have wings credit assigned.
Click to expand...

Agreed. This is more of a CPA problem than an FAA one for that particular course. I seriously doubt they even realize it could be authorized. May have to send a note.
 
Nate, if I can be of assistance by helping them get it evaluated and credits associated, let me know. I should be able to find a FAASTEAM Rep or FPM in that area.
 
Appreciate the offer Tim. Actually I know a Rep. He's who I flew with in the 182RG when the club 182 went Tango Uniform and I was renting up to 10 hours in type for the insurance on 79M prior to buying shares of the LLC.

I'll getting touch with him and see if he wants to help get CPA on board with Wings credits. Probably should first find out If there's some reason they didn't do it.

Probably just omission rather than commission. You know how it goes.
 
I liked the old Wings better, but I still participate in the new program. I don't find it all that difficult, so I am probably doing something wrong!
 
I actually prefer this program better than the old one, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. It's always hard finding what I want on the site; it just is NOT intuitive at all! That said, I have succeeded in doing the first two phases under both Basic and Advanced, and had the certificate of completion for the most recent one in my hand the same day I did the flight portion.

Finding free ground courses at the advanced level is difficult, but not impossible. It does, however, vary depending on your location. Being in a major metropolitan area is certainly helpful.

It will be interesting to see if there are many (any?) Advanced ground sessions at OSH this year.

And Avemco does have a space on their non-owned insurance forms to indicate participation in Wings and they do give a discount.
 
Reviving an old thread...

I submitted to my DPE via the Wings website my recent Instrument Rating some time ago.

DPE has not responded.

I believe the options are:

- Pester DPE directly via phone, or e-mail.
- Find someone else to verify Wings credit. (I believe this is a sub-set of all CFIs, or only those that have signed up?)

Is that correct?

Secondary question...

It is surprising that a DPE wouldn't reply. Anyone know if all DPEs participate in the Wings program, or...?

I don't want to cause any waves or anyone any trouble. (Seems to be a common theme around here lately...)

Just curious more than anything. Instrument ticket still counts as a re-up of the BFR without the Wings credit, it just looked neat that there was a menu item for doing "official" Wings credit with it. So I did it.

Mostly I'm just causing my own headaches, attempting to participate in it at all, it seems? Why chase it? Same diff, ticket renews BFR, Wings credits... AFAIK our insurer isn't one who gives WINGS credit, but we've never asked.

I think I'm the only pilot in our co-ownership group who's even attempted to stockpile Wings credits in hopes of actually attaining something in the system "one of these days".

I was all excited that it was something other than "Basic" too... but even just typing up this question set is completely turning me off to the silly thing. More wasted time...
 
Send me a copy of your logbook entry for the rating and I'll grant you credit. Technically CFIs/DPEs are supposed to grant credit for activities/training they specifically provided.

Any other FAASTeam rep can validate qualifying activities done by anybody.

If you wish, use my id - timothy.metzinger@metzair.com and request I validate your credit, and then send me a scan of your logbook entry or your certificate/temp if the date matches. I'm sort of disappointed your DPE doesn't actively participate, but it's not unusual... WINGS is a small but growing subset of the community.
 
I think the WINGS program is a good one. I participate, but am not actively working towards a credit right now. It is very nice to be able to take online courses at your leisure and have them count, instead of having to go somewhere for a live seminar.
 
TMetzinger said:
Mountain flying COULD count... all that's required is for the creator of the course to work with the FAASTEAM rep to get it added and have wings credit assigned.
Click to expand...
And that's our fault for not making it happen, not even thinking about it! Which is really embarassing because there are 2 FAAST members on the Colorado Pilots Assoc board (one is the safety chair). Probably too late for the mid-Aug course, but definitely next year.

Tanks for the idea!
 
denverpilot said:
Agreed. This is more of a CPA problem than an FAA one for that particular course. I seriously doubt they even realize it could be authorized. May have to send a note.
Click to expand...

I'm here. Consider it done.
 
I've taken several of the online courses, but have to agree that the website leaves much to be desired. I'm still not very sure what exactly is required for the flight portion of the credits. And don't really understand the course to credit correlation. I know I have several basic and intermediate course credits but no flying credits.
I have spoken with my CFI and a DPE I've used to validate flying credits for me. Both looked at me like I had a third eye, and I haven't pushed the issue other after I asked each of them a second time. As a new pilot I thought it was a good idea, but I just don't see the benefit beyond them mailing you a pair of plastic wings in the mail. I must be missing something.
 
denverpilot said:
Reviving an old thread...

I submitted to my DPE via the Wings website my recent Instrument Rating some time ago.

DPE has not responded.

I believe the options are:

- Pester DPE directly via phone, or e-mail.
- Find someone else to verify Wings credit. (I believe this is a sub-set of all CFIs, or only those that have signed up?)
Click to expand...

Why don't you have the CFI that signed you off for the checkride give you credit? After i passed my commercial checkride, i requested credit from my CFI. He approved it and everything seemed to work.
 
Josh_C said:
I've taken several of the online courses, but have to agree that the website leaves much to be desired. I'm still not very sure what exactly is required for the flight portion of the credits. And don't really understand the course to credit correlation. I know I have several basic and intermediate course credits but no flying credits.
I have spoken with my CFI and a DPE I've used to validate flying credits for me. Both looked at me like I had a third eye, and I haven't pushed the issue other after I asked each of them a second time. As a new pilot I thought it was a good idea, but I just don't see the benefit beyond them mailing you a pair of plastic wings in the mail. I must be missing something.
Click to expand...
Log onto www.faasafety.gov.

In the center of the screen is a box with a graphic button that says
Quick WINGS
Click Here

Click there. It comes up with a new page showing what phase you're working towards ("You Are Working on Basic - Phase 3"), the knowledge portions you've already completed, as well as what flight activities you need to complete. Those will be portions from the PTS. For example, mine says:
ASEL-Takeoffs, Landings, Go-arounds (ATP, Comm'l, Pvt) Advanced Level
Flight Activity: A070405-89​

(Not Yet Completed)

1 Credit for Flight Topic 1​



From the Commercial Pilot Practical Test Standards for Airplane

  1. Area of Operation IV, Task A: Normal and Crosswind Takeoff and Climb
  2. Area of Operation IV, Task B: Normal and Crosswind Approach and Landing
  3. Area of Operation IV, Task F: Short-Field Approach and Landing
  4. Area of Operation IV, Task K: Power-Off 180º Accuracy Approach and Landing
  5. Area of Operation IV, Task L: Go-Around/Rejected Landing
NOTE: Airmen may use an FAA-qualified and approved flight simulator or flight training device to complete certain flight task requirements when authorized by the applicable Practical Test Standards.


I certify that GRANT ALAN PRELLWITZ, holder of pilot certificate No. _________________________ , has satisfactorily demonstrated proficiency in the required tasks as outlined in the WINGS - Pilot Proficiency Program, for the activity number as shown above, on _____________________ (date).

Instructor Printed Name Certificate Number

Signature Expiration Date
Click to expand...
so I would follow the provided link to the PTS and see just what was involved in the enumerated tasks, along with the standards to be met. I then go to a flight instructor and do those tasks within the PTS standards. There will be three sections like that.

For each phase, I get a percentage off my non-owned Avemco insurance, a lapel pin, and a 2 year extension on my flight review. I combine it with work towards new ratings, getting checked out in a new plane, or the like.

This reminds me, I'm going up Friday to work on TO & Ls for the final checkout in the Bonanza. I'll bring this with and get it signed off!

Now, I will say that the next two activities listed for me make no sense, since they are both "Initial Certification - Instrument Rating" (it's good for two sections), but I've had my IR for years, and the system should already know that. So it certainly ain't a perfect system!
 
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I recently got back in the Cockpit after many many years of inactivity. I had my CFI check off all the flying areas while getting re-acclimated to being a PIC.

It was a good check list for me to cover the skills that had atrophied since last time in the air. The ground portion helped me to figure out what the new airspace was all about via ASF courses and other items including live seminars like national safety stand down day where I covered all three ground items at once.

Those benefits were enough for me but when I signed up with AVEMCO for renter insurance, the discount, while not huge, was a pleasant surprise.

I have no real clue how to progress past basic or even WTH the different Phases of Basic are all about or how to achieve whatever is required.

All in All it was worth it to me to participate but how to go further in the levels is a mystery beyond getting an Instrument Rating.

Cheers
 
murphey said:
I'm here. Consider it done.
Click to expand...

Necroposting, but just saw the Wings alert for the Mountain Flying Course pop up in my e-mail. Nice work!


Select Number:
NM0345677

....

Basic Knowledge 3 - 1 Credit
Advanced Knowledge 2 - 2 Credits
 
denverpilot said:
Necroposting, but just saw the Wings alert for the Mountain Flying Course pop up in my e-mail. Nice work!


Select Number:
NM0345677

....

Basic Knowledge 3 - 1 Credit
Advanced Knowledge 2 - 2 Credits
Click to expand...

I took it in June, so I need to get Bill to sign off. He signed my logbook, tho.
 
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