Win 8.1 ???

Henning said:
I've managed to find my way through every OS to make it do what I need except Linux.
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That's because "consumer" Linux is a command line OS with a bunch of **** poor disjointed attempts at putting various GUIs over the top of it with infighting between all the GUI makers.

Used as intended, command line only, it's a wicked disruptor of commercial Unix. Used as a desktop, it mostly blows.

If you want a Unix desktop done right, you buy Mac. And not iOS.
 
denverpilot said:
That's because "consumer" Linux is a command line OS with a bunch of **** poor disjointed attempts at putting various GUIs over the top of it with infighting between all the GUI makers.

Used as intended, command line only, it's a wicked disruptor of commercial Unix. Used as a desktop, it mostly blows.

If you want a Unix desktop done right, you buy Mac. And not iOS.
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I'm extraordinarily pleased with Linux Mint. Though I'm not an IT guy, so my user experience is probably markedly different than yours. But I do submit that an average user who does some web surfing, email checking, and picture storage on a light-duty home PC, could be happy as a lark with Linux Mint. (It also performs swimmingly for hobby Python programming.)

YMMV. I am admittedly sort of infatuated with the OS.
 
asechrest said:
I'm extraordinarily pleased with Linux Mint. Though I'm not an IT guy, so my user experience is probably markedly different than yours. But I do submit that an average user who does some web surfing, email checking, and picture storage on a light-duty home PC, could be happy as a lark with Linux Mint. (It also performs swimmingly for hobby Python programming.)



YMMV. I am admittedly sort of infatuated with the OS.
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Mint is one of the better ones. They've managed to keep a relatively sane desktop while Gnome and KDE teams constantly write and rewrite their stuff without a consistent UI standards doc and person willing to tell Devs "no" when they break the UI rules. The Gnome 2 to Gnome 3 fiasco was no less of a mess than forcing desktop users to Metro.

Having now been on Win 8.1 for a few weeks on the work laptop I'm thoroughly annoyed with having to either reach up and swipe the touchscren or hover and wait forever with the mouse in the upper right corner to get a search.

Keystrokes by default are no better since Windows-S defaults to a sub search instead of Everything Search. And even then I have to know what to type to get what I want to launch unless I "pin" every damn application to the taskbar.

Metro seems hell bent on wasting my time. What before was a simple click to a menu that stayed open and let you traverse down to the thing you needed while showing you everything in the sub-menus along the way, is now a full text search to find and launch it.

Totally defeats the purpose of having a mouse attached and shortcut keys don't actually take you anywhere useful. It's truly god-awful end-user design.

The only way to make Win 8.1 sane is just to launch everything you'll ever use and Alt-Tab around until you find the thing you're looking for. Oh I forgot about the broken new Alt-Tab behavior that doesn't toggle with a single keystroke but requires two to start toggling. Gah. Totally brain dead.

Did I mention MSIE behaving differently depending on if you launched the full screen Metro version or the regular one?

I think someone was on a lot of meth when they merged Metro into the desktop OS.
 
The first time I tried 8.1 on a virtual machine, it took me more than 30 minutes to find the shut down capability.
 
This is what the Start Menu looks like with a more-or-less default installation of Classic Shell on Win 8.1.

-Rich
 

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Does Classic Shell have the Windows 2000 style start menu as an option?
 
It's very nicely-done, in my opinion. I've had no issues at all with it except when I upgraded to 8.1. Even then, a quick and painless uninstall / reinstall fixed everything.

If you like it, please consider tossing some coin the developer's way. I did. I'd really like to see him keep supporting it.

-Rich
 
winrose46 said:
The first time I tried 8.1 on a virtual machine, it took me more than 30 minutes to find the shut down capability.
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Same thing for me... and I bitched and whined about it until I saw a YouTube video of a 3 years explaining how to use Win8. Then I realized the problem was me. I've since grown to understand Win8, but still prefer to put StartMenu8 on it to make it run/look like Win7
 
RJM62 said:
Lacks discoverablity? Yeah, I'd say that's something I'd agree with. But whether it does or it doesn't, those of us for whom computers are tools, not just toys, tend to not want to waste time having to re-discover the UI. It's been pretty much the same since 1995, and as boring as it may be, it's what we're used to and it works.

As for Classic Shell, the single biggest complain we Luddites have about the new UI is the lack of a familiar Start Menu and other navigation features we've become accustomed to, and Classic Shell does in fact fix those problems (and even makes a few improvements along the way). So I'd have to say yes. Considering its popularity, I reckon a lot of other folks feel the same way.

In fact, I think Microsoft needs to send Ivo Beltchev a generous check (if they haven't already) for saving their otherwise superb OS from almost-certain obscurity. You have no idea how many folks have called me, usually screaming and cursing, in a last-ditch effort to avoid taking their newly-purchased PCs back to the store for refunds. It's actually amusing to hear the change in their mood and tone after I talk them through the Classic Shell installation.

-Rich
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I mentioned to my nephew that I was interested in trying out Windows 8.1, so he gave it to me for Christmas. The very first thing I did after installing it (on a spare hard disk) was to install Classic Shell. I'm already happier! :)
 
Palmpilot said:
Does it have some advantage over Classic Shell?
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I run Classic Shell on a laptop and Start8 on my desktop computer. Not sure of any really noticeable differences. Classic Shell does seem slower to respond to me.
 
Start8 on one virtual machine and Classic on another real machine. Doesn't really seem to matter as long as the damn menu is back.
 
I think people that say Win 8.1 is great you just have to install Classic shell is funny.
You are basically making Win 8/8.1 like Win 7 YOu are losing what makes 8 different.
 
ron22 said:
I think people that say Win 8.1 is great you just have to install Classic shell is funny.
You are basically making Win 8/8.1 like Win 7 YOu are losing what makes 8 different.
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Oh, you're the guy who likes the Metro GUI?

Rich
 
ron22 said:
You are basically making Win 8/8.1 like Win 7 YOu are losing what makes 8 different.
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That's not true.

From a user only standpoint, nothing to do with how the program works, programmer stuff, PC expert, etc., I like 8. It's a lot faster, I get a lot less errors, and there are things in it that work very well. With the exception of the view/layout.

Yes, I use the shell to make it look like 7, but it is only the view/layout. It doesn't perform like 7 at all, thankfully.

My laptop is touchscreen so I could use 8 like it's meant if I wanted to, but I don't. I want to keep that separation. There are things I use my computer for, and things I use my iPad for. I can appreciate their intention to merge those ideas and bring more functionality into my computer, but for me, as a user, it doesn't work that way.
 
Yep, Metro is great :rolleyes: A user interface designed for a phone.
 
TheTraveler said:
That's not true.

From a user only standpoint, nothing to do with how the program works, programmer stuff, PC expert, etc., I like 8. It's a lot faster, I get a lot less errors, and there are things in it that work very well. With the exception of the view/layout.

Yes, I use the shell to make it look like 7, but it is only the view/layout. It doesn't perform like 7 at all, thankfully.

My laptop is touchscreen so I could use 8 like it's meant if I wanted to, but I don't. I want to keep that separation. There are things I use my computer for, and things I use my iPad for. I can appreciate their intention to merge those ideas and bring more functionality into my computer, but for me, as a user, it doesn't work that way.
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I never had any problems with 7. In fact, I still use it for some things. But I agree that 8 is better for the resource and stability reasons you mentioned.

EppyGA said:
Yep, Metro is great :rolleyes: A user interface designed for a phone.
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And it's fantastic on a phone (or tablet). I was playing with my brother's over the holidays, and if my next phone isn't another BlackBerry, it'll be a Windows phone. But the tiled interface is still retarded on a desktop or laptop.

Rich
 
One problem I've had with Windows 7 is that it's incompatible with some of the "advanced format" hard disks. When I cloned my Win 7 installation to one of them for backup purposes, Windows Update didn't work on the clone. My next step will be to do the same with Windows 8.1, to see if that problem got fixed.
 
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