Why don't you fly aerobatics?

[gibbons]

I'm curious as to why more people aren't involved in aerobatics - in competition or just for fun. If there is some reason not in the poll, let me know and I'll add it.

Please select your single biggest reason for not flying acro.

 

[Let'sgoflying!]

queasy stomach!

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Chip:

May have done it earlier in life, but not much attraction now. The P-Baron won't put up with much of it

I have two planes now, neither of which is aerobatic and my Son tells me if I get another, I'll become a collector

Actually, I wouldn't have time to begin another hobby and get to the level of proficiency I would want to be at.

Best,

Dave

 

[Bill]

Please select your single biggest reason for not flying acro.

1. I've taken light aerobatic instruction, and loved it.
2. I tried to pull the wings off an Extra last summer, and loved it.
3. I'm just po' folk.
4. No access to rental aerobatic aircraft.
5. When I am able to afford a plane, it will be hard to justify buying a one trick pony.

That said, in about a year, I hope to begin construction on an RV-8. Good for competition, no. Good for sport aerobatics...oh yes. Also, a fast and efficient traveller, and can be built IFR capable. I plan to stick with the club to rent spam cans when the whole family wants to travel.

At least that is the plan, and "The Boss" is onboard so far...

 

[fgcason]

I don't because the wings and other assorted stuff tend to blow off or get all twisty jammed on Cherokee's and CE172's when doing that.

Lack of planes and good training that I trust are another major issue. It's very impractical logistically most of the time. Without owning an aerobatic plane (or living next door to Diana ) I definitely wouldn't be able to do it regularly enough to justify the hassle factor involved. ...And the whole concept of aerobatic rentals scare me to no end based on potential abuse and overstress issues that I might be the unluckly person to discover at 4000 AGL...

I am also more interested in backcountry type flying so that would be my main interest nowadays.

 

[Henning]

I'm curious as to why more people aren't involved in aerobatics - in competition or just for fun. If there is some reason not in the poll, let me know and I'll add it.

Please select your single biggest reason for not flying acro.

I do fly it on occassion. Typically what keeps me from doing it more is access to a quality aerobatic plane. Once I learned it (and I flew it hard for a while) I didn't really have an application for it that would make me money so I couldn't justify my own, and when I left So Cal, I lost access to the Extra 300 I was flying sooo... it goes the way of the DoDo unless I come across someone who's willing to let me fly their pride and joy toy.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

I do it from time to time.
It's a big rush and helps with unusual attitudes recoveries,
especially if done under the hood.

 

[Henning]

I do it from time to time.
It's a big rush and helps with unusual attitudes recoveries,
especially if done under the hood.

Hmmm.... I wonder how clean I could pull off a Hammerhead under the hood.... couple snap rolls and you could have fun following the AI aroundB)

 

[EdFred]

Because the PA28 is prohibited from doing them, and I can't really rent a plane around here for it.

 

[Toby]

Flunked out.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Hmmm.... I wonder how clean I could pull off a Hammerhead under the hood.... couple snap rolls and you could have fun following the AI aroundB)

Never said it was pretty to watch...
it feels quite ugly actually !

 

[Steve]

I prefer a lit match under my toenail.

 

[gibbons]

I prefer a lit match under my toenail.

That can be arranged.

 

[AirBaker]

The MRS. isn't keen on the idea. Maybe that will change.

 

[SCCutler]

All about priorities and money.

I'd sure like to do some acro, for the fun and for the reputed improvement I'll get in airplane control skills.

There is a nice lil' Decathlon at Classic Aviation, ADS, and Jeff Slater teaches some acro... maybe one a these days...

 

[jrdodge]

Hopefully this summer I could try. I should have money then... I heard there is a field on the outskirts of Chicago that has an instructor. Nobody tell my Mom - it would kill her to know!!

 

[Doug R]

1. My mind and body are not in agreement. I LUV doing aerobatics, but am built like a low land gorilla (at least the forehead and belly portion) with a steady diet of mexican food my body just rejects the idea after a short period of time aerobatic flying. I'm sure a huge loss of weight would help.
2. Don't feel I have enough time to fly regular and stay proficient. I'ts like having your instrument rating. You have to consistently use your skills to remain proficient.
3. Financial commitment ...its just tough to commit the money to buy a aerobatic plane. I do enough flying as it is...just not for pure pleasure.
4. Both my daughters college funds are a Extra 300 and Pitts S 2 disguised as mutual funds.

On a serious note it is a combination of the all four above listed reasons that keeps me from flying aerobatics.

 

[Henning]

All about priorities and money.

I'd sure like to do some acro, for the fun and for the reputed improvement I'll get in airplane control skills...

I look at aerobatic flight as an energy management exercise. It's not really so much control skills, rather it's a deeper knowledge of what more of the same input gets you... what happens? how does it feel? where does it get me (relative to current attitude) when I do this...? It may eliminate a hesitation to do something outside the normal operational envelope during an extraordinary situation and give you a base of knowledge of what kind of energy and loading is involved and likely to develope, and how to keep a gentle reign on it. You more or less get to experience the full range of motion an aircraft has to offer, and the energy management involved. You already know how to control an airplane. Straight and level requires the same control as an inverted loop, you just use the controls differently. The key is in percieving energy losses and gains and predicting just when you will be at a critical energy state to execute the manuver with just enough energy. Like with a hammerhead, you have to visualize exactly the spot in front (above really) you when you will have just enough energy left that when you kick the tail around, the plane will pivot around leaving the wingtip anchored on a point. A bit too much energy and it comes out an upside down U, too little and the wingtip and fuselage appear to slide down. Way to little and well, you're gonna swap ends one way or another, if you climbed a perfectly true vertical, you can drop straight back for a moment in a tailslide, but not for long, and not unless the plane is approved for it, it's a violent manuever, and most control surfaces aren't made to take the leverage of it. My favorite is to push the stick forward and do a back layout. It's amazing the difference in the outside appearance, nice and smooth graceful ballet like manuver; inside, well... you may want to wear a helmet.

But the long and the short of it, if you are going to do an acro course, or even a couple of lessons just to improve your general pilot skills, what you really should pay greatest attention to is how to handle large accellerations into unusual attitudes and recover without breaking the airplane. What the Acro course does is it allows you to load to those limits safely by being stronger than your usual plane.

The one manuver I think every pilot should experience is a Split S, cause let me tell you, from the drivers seat, they look the same as when you hit wing tip vvoricies from somebody big and have the same type of energy management problems on recovery. Everyone should do spins and a Split S, incorperate it into your next BFR.

 

[Richard]

I have access to a couple different types but the question becomes how much do I trust that pilot. None of the owners are CFIs so while they may be proficient I'm not certain of their ability to instruct. One guy I was completely uncomfortable with beyond the basics. I guess I could do like Diana and travel to Lancaster but I see limited use in that. Upset training a la Rich Stowell would be of more value.

 

[Bill]

The key is in percieving energy losses and gains and predicting just when you will be at a critical energy state to execute the manuver with just enough energy.

One of the excercises my guy made me do was: 2 to 2.5g pullup from level cruise right into a vertical upline, then begin a 0g pushover, stopping at an attitude that had us right at stall speed, then he would call "left" or "right", and I'd have to bang a 45 degree bank turn at stall speed, one continous maneuver. If the plane wasn't shuddering as we went around the turn, he (like that dude in the beer commercial) whacked me with the cane and yelled "again!".

If you really need to get 500-1000ft of altitude RIGHT NOW, you could do the same thing in a 172 or similar.

Like with a hammerhead, you have to visualize exactly the spot in front (above really) you when you will have just enough energy left that when you kick the tail around, the plane will pivot around leaving the wingtip anchored on a point.

A properly executed hammerhead is the most enjoyable thing I've ever done in an airplane. At the top of the climb, there are no g's pulling on you, it's peaceful, and to see the plane pivot about that inner wing tip and see the world rotate back into your view, well, its just pure magic. I can't really put into words how graceful a good hammerhead is...

The one manuver I think every pilot should experience is a Split S, cause let me tell you, from the drivers seat, they look the same as when you hit wing tip vvoricies from somebody big and have the same type of energy management problems on recovery. Everyone should do spins and a Split S, incorperate it into your next BFR.

We didn't do many, but the Split-S scared the crap out of me, man, you have to get and keep that stick back quick, lest ye become a lawn dart. (Edit: You have the same energy management coming out of the hammerhead, high lawn dart potential.) Spins, however, were quite fun (after the 1st one).

Aerobatics are good times, I WILL build that RV-8...

 

[Ken Ibold]

We didn't do many, but the Split-S scared the crap out of me, man, you have to get and keep that stick back quick, lest ye become a lawn dart. (Edit: You have the same energy management coming out of the hammerhead, high lawn dart potential.) Spins, however, were quite fun (after the 1st one).

I love split-S! I think that's my favorite maneuver. The first time I did one I was by myself and I was absolutely giddy when I recovered. I recall giggling out loud and thinking, "this beats 72 virgins any day!!"

 

[Bill]

I did one I was by myself and I was absolutely giddy when I recovered.

I'll bet!

"this beats 72 virgins any day!!"

Hmmm

I love split-S!

BTW, do you start your split-S from level flight, or do you pitch up 30 degrees or so before starting the roll? I honestly can't remember how we entered them, so just wondering...

 

[Ken Ibold]

BTW, do you start your split-S from level flight, or do you pitch up 30 degrees or so before starting the roll? I honestly can't remember how we entered them, so just wondering...

I start them from level flight, since you're going to want the nose to fall through anyway. I haven't looked at the competition scoring criteria to see if you're "supposed" to have an inverted line before the pull in competition. The danger of self-teaching, I suppose! Perhaps I've taught myself the wrong way to do it.

 

[gibbons]

I start them from level flight, since you're going to want the nose to fall through anyway. I haven't looked at the competition scoring criteria to see if you're "supposed" to have an inverted line before the pull in competition. The danger of self-teaching, I suppose! Perhaps I've taught myself the wrong way to do it.

As with all competition maneuvers, it starts from level flight. Pitching up before the split-s will get you a nice score of about 4. The nose pitch down should begin immediately after the wings reach horizontal inverted - no inverted level flight should be noticeable (don't draw a line). The radius should not be segmented. Since you're slower at the top than at the bottom, this means the pull must increase as the speed increases in order to keep the looping segment round.

As I know Ken is aware, with regard to the split-s it's the entry speed that kills 'em - and I mean that literally. That's why in competition you won't see a split-s placed immediately after a loop or hammerhead, or any other high speed maneuver. It's generally placed after a speed dumping maneuver like the Immelman or the Goldfish.

 

[Brian Austin]

Simply not interested at this point in my flying career. I can see some aero time later, though, after I fulfill some other goals.

 

[Missa]

I think Acro is wonderful to teach absolute mastery of the craft. If you can fly Acro you know the absolute edges that the aircraft can fly and it makes you a better safer pilot.

I'm not good yet. If fact the only other person I do arco with right now is the CFI. I've been thinking about taking the boy out in the Citabra but he won't get any of the fun manuvers because I still don't feel comptient yet.

Missa

 

[SkyHog]

I have no desire to fly acro. Can't explain it. Its like flying taildraggers. No desire.

Could be because I haven't done it....I doubt it though.

 

[EdFred]

I think I need an "intro ride" to acro at Gastons. Yeah, that's the ticket!
Split S. Isn't that just a roll to inverted followed by a half inner loop? What's so freaky bout that?

 

[Dave Siciliano]

I love split-S! I think that's my favorite maneuver. The first time I did one I was by myself and I was absolutely giddy when I recovered. I recall giggling out loud and thinking, "this beats 72 virgins any day!!"

Hymen.....uh Amen, Ken!!! Well said.

 

[Rudy]

I haven't ever been able to do so. I am pretty sure I would love it, but it is something that I just really don't know how to get started. If an intro flight would come up, I would take it and surely love it.

I would want it to go at my pace, as I have found that some of the people around here that teach it have little patience with students.

If there is an acro ride at Gaston's in say ohhhh an Extra maybe, I don't think I could pass it up! haha

 

[Ken Ibold]

If there is an acro ride at Gaston's in say ohhhh an Extra maybe, I don't think I could pass it up! haha

Would a Pitts be good enough?

 

[Rudy]

Would a Pitts be good enough?

DOUBLE YES!!!

Are you coming in a Pitts, Ken?

 

[cherokeeflyboy]

I'll admit it. I am Chicken. After being introduced to spins without being briefed before hand, I have not got over the fear I experienced.

 

[Ken Ibold]

I'll admit it. I am Chicken. After being introduced to spins without being briefed before hand, I have not got over the fear I experienced.

I was subjected to that when I had 0.7 total time in my logbook. Once you have the proper exposure, your previous fear will seem silly.

DOUBLE YES!!!

Are you coming in a Pitts, Ken?

Don't know yet, Rudy.

 

[jesse]

I don't really have any aerobatic experiance other than a spin.

I'd love to try it. But really it's just a matter of it not being available.

 

[wsuffa]

Priorities and money. I like going places... bought a travelin' plane.

Someday....

 

[wyoav8rnSOCAL]

Started to learn aerobatics, but I ended up getting sick in the plane. I have no desire now.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Started to learn aerobatics, but I ended up getting sick in the plane. I have no desire now.

I puked the first time I flew in a Pitts. So what? It was still a blast! Now, 14 years later, I'm thinking of finally buying one.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Started to learn aerobatics, but I ended up getting sick in the plane. I have no desire now.

I hurled once during a flight lesson but had food poisoning from a hotel prior, and it was no big deal with sick bags handy.

For aerobatics, it makes sense that I don't eat for 2-4 hours prior to flight since I don't do it that often and am up there to get the maximum amount of unusual attitudes in the minimum time with the least overall hassle. Never puked during aerobatics that way but probably would have with a full stomach.

 

[Zlinace]

I do fly aerobatics... in a Zlin 526 F and love the heck out of it. Talk about training for unusual attitudes!!!!! Just like flying a taildragger... aerobatics makes one a better pilot...