Why Call

swamppilot

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swamppilot
I fly a patrol aircraft and when I get bored I listen to UNICOM even if I'm not close to an airport. Lately I've heard a lot of the turboprop and jet jocks call nontowered airports and advise the folks there that they'll be landing in about 15 minutes (translated to 60 t0 80 miles from touchdown). I can understand if they want a quick turn; they want to alert the folks to be ready and they want to get out fast. Even though you could argue that, that is not what UNICOM is for, I don't have a problem with it. The big iron jock though, who just announces that they'll be landing in about 15 minutes and won't need any service, while blocking the frequency for maybe a 200 mile radius, is a jerk. What is contained in such a transmission that could not wait until the aircraft was on the ground? Would they not be there in 15 minutes if the call wasn't made? Does it make them feel important? What exactly is the purpose of such a transmission?
 
A lot of companies are required to make such an "in-range" call (it's like a position report for their dispatchers/flight-followers).


Also, the FBOs want to know that they're coming (so they can have the gas truck, marshalers, etc ready and waiting) and aren't surprised by a 30,000lb airplane waiting to park on a full ramp. Arguably that is what the Unicom freq is for. Now if the Unicom and CTAF happen to be combined, as they are at most small airports, then frequency congestion is a problem, but an unavoidable one. Even if they don't need any service, they're going to need a marshaler, who wants to know they're coming. And the unicom operator might be able to warn them of any changes to the airport (contaminated surfaces, runway closures, etc) that have happened since they departed that could affect their decision to continue on to the airport (60-80 miles out may seem like a lot, but that's when they're going to be prepping for the approach and starting to get set up for the final descent).

If you go to a Class C or B airport, the FBOs will almost all have their own Unicom freq separate from any other freq on field for this purpose, but at small airports it's often combined with the CTAF. Just an unfortunate necessity. That's not to say that jet jocks don't think they're cooler than they are, but they're not going to waste air time to prove it.
 
Do you fly for GSP or power line patrol or what?

As for your question, it goes to part of a discussion in another thread. It's for courtesy but more so for safety. A couple of the most important rules to fly by are "See and be seen." and "Make your intentions known."

A faster aircraft has no clue what may happening at that airport so he lets it be known he's soon to arrive. There may be an aircraft by itself in the patter simply doing touch-n-goes and not even making calls. If he's NORDO, that's a different story. Either way, I'd like to know I'm about to have company either in the pattern or there's a straight-in approach to be expected.

He may be announcing on CTAF for several different airports but then that's why you give the airport at both begging and end of your transmission. In Gainesville, we only have to deal with other transmissions down at Griffin. When I went to Picayune, MS last year, there must have been at least four different airports on the same CTAF. That's just the nature of CTAF in some areas.

Edit: Dang Beech pilot beat me to posting. Note, he failed to mention he's guilty of what you speak of. :D
 
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I think he was referring to the call saying something along the lines of "Ames Unicom, Beech 124CJ is thirty minutes out, we won't need any services" or "we're thirty minutes out, we'll need XX amount of gas, a rental car, and the crew van if it's available" as opposed to the usual traffic report. You're right, though, freq overlap is an issue with this too.



And when it comes to doing something that someone considers obnoxious, I think it goes without saying that I've probably done it! Thanks for ratting me out, though :)
 
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I'll have to remember how cool I am sounding the next time I make my 15-minute out call. :D

Where's the cool icon? Oh, here is is.
iconcool5lw.gif


Teller is right, we are supposed to make an advance call to the FBO. Of course a good portion of the time no one answers but at least we tried. It works much better when the FBO has a dedicated ARINC frequency but many do not so UNICOM is the other option.
 
I fly a patrol aircraft and when I get bored I listen to UNICOM even if I'm not close to an airport. Lately I've heard a lot of the turboprop and jet jocks call nontowered airports and advise the folks there that they'll be landing in about 15 minutes (translated to 60 t0 80 miles from touchdown). I can understand if they want a quick turn; they want to alert the folks to be ready and they want to get out fast. Even though you could argue that, that is not what UNICOM is for, I don't have a problem with it. The big iron jock though, who just announces that they'll be landing in about 15 minutes and won't need any service, while blocking the frequency for maybe a 200 mile radius, is a jerk. What is contained in such a transmission that could not wait until the aircraft was on the ground? Would they not be there in 15 minutes if the call wasn't made? Does it make them feel important? What exactly is the purpose of such a transmission?

It's also for the transportation coordination for the passengers. Many of them need a cab called, or want their rental car pulled out to the airplane, etc. It makes the arrival run a little smoother usually.
 
Folowup question to the turbine jocks. If it's a no rush type arrival (a quick turn), wouldn't a call when you're closer in, like 5 minutes out accomplish the same thing? And being closer in you'd be at a lower altitude, thus not blocking half the world. There's no safety problem, when you call 15, or even 10 minutes out, anyone in the pattern that would hear and be interested would be on the ground by the time you arrive. It just seems silly to call and say essentially, we'll be there. If it's marshalling you're worried about, why not call ahead (annoy someone in the restroom at the departing FBO with your cell phone)? Most flights are probably not much over an hour, would that not give the folks at the destination a heads up? Same for the rental car situation. I've heard calls to verify that a previously reserved car would be there. Wouldn't a call a few minutes before departure (probably within an hour or less of the arrival time) do the same thing?
 
I think they do it to let the party waiting at the airport meeting their passengers know not to give up on them when they're up to 30 minutes late on their ETA. In case you didn't know, there's this unwritten code of conduct among those playboy jetsetters that says you don't have to wait more than 15 minutes for your overpaid high dollar cronies who are driving the airlines to bankruptcy by flying aboard one of their stable of private bizjets unless they call you on Unicom to advise you that they are inbound for their casino/tee time/turkish bath appointment before the 30 minutes is up.
 
Folowup question to the turbine jocks. If it's a no rush type arrival (a quick turn), wouldn't a call when you're closer in, like 5 minutes out accomplish the same thing?
There's the sterile cockpit rule below 10,000 MSL for one thing. Five minutes out is also a pretty busy time.

Most flights are probably not much over an hour, would that not give the folks at the destination a heads up?
That's not true, at least for us. I would say most flights are well over an hour, sometimes up to 4+
 
There's the sterile cockpit rule below 10,000 MSL for one thing. Five minutes out is also a pretty busy time.

That's exactly why we're supposed to do our's at 35-40 miles at least. We fly much lower and much slower so we can do it a little bit later, but any later than that we're in our descent (lots of mental math going on), we're below 10k (or below our cruise alt) and in the sterile cockpit rule where no unnecessary radio chatter or conversation in the cockpit is allowed, we're briefing our approach, running the descent and approach/in range checklists, etc etc. Even more so for the jets, things start happening FAST inside that 30 minutes out window, and they can't afford to divide their attention anymore.
 
I think they do it to let the party waiting at the airport meeting their passengers know not to give up on them when they're up to 30 minutes late on their ETA. In case you didn't know, there's this unwritten code of conduct among those playboy jetsetters that says you don't have to wait more than 15 minutes for your overpaid high dollar cronies who are driving the airlines to bankruptcy by flying aboard one of their stable of private bizjets unless they call you on Unicom to advise you that they are inbound for their casino/tee time/turkish bath appointment before the 30 minutes is up.

I know I'd be ****ED if I missed my monthly turkish bath!!
 
I'll admit, I like that one too. I could use it a lot...with...S3 guys...shut up.
rofl.gif
Oh yeah? Well...

boxing.gif


The "sterile cockpit" rule as well as a very busy time preparing for descent and approach came to mind when I first answered above. But, I was torn away momentarily to watch "Eight Below."
 
Thanks for the input guys. To be honest, I never noticed this doing "normal" flying. I just sort of became aware of it while flying along with nothing much to do, and then I realized how often it happens, and how far away some of the airports were that they were talking to.
 
Thanks for the input guys. To be honest, I never noticed this doing "normal" flying. I just sort of became aware of it while flying along with nothing much to do, and then I realized how often it happens, and how far away some of the airports were that they were talking to.
Swamp, who do you fly for? You said you flew patrol aircraft. Is that for GSP, power line patrol or what? I'm just curious.
 
if im having to coordinate with other traffic on pattern entry and playing nice with others etc. knowing how long its going to be until they get there is much more important than how far out they are. i know that a G-IV on 10 mile final doesnt really give me enough time to do another touch and go or stage my glider. a J3 cub though is a different story.
 
Even though you could argue that, that is not what UNICOM is for

It is what the UNICOM is for. Do you know the difference between UNICOM and CTAF?

Actually, most of the jet-catering FBO's these days are watching the incoming IFR arrivals via one of the fight tracking systems so it is largely unnecessary.
 
Yes Ron I know the difference between a UNICOM and a CTAF, and a CTAF may be a UNICOM (according to the AIM). That's exactly what it is for the airports I was referring to. Sorry I wasn't precise enough.
 
I think they do it to let the party waiting at the airport meeting their passengers know not to give up on them when they're up to 30 minutes late on their ETA. In case you didn't know, there's this unwritten code of conduct among those playboy jetsetters that says you don't have to wait more than 15 minutes for your overpaid high dollar cronies who are driving the airlines to bankruptcy by flying aboard one of their stable of private bizjets unless they call you on Unicom to advise you that they are inbound for their casino/tee time/turkish bath appointment before the 30 minutes is up.
As Usual, Mr. Steve has hit the nail on the head.
 
Plus they want the FBO to start the rental cars so they interior has cooled or warmed to the appropriate temperature. Don't want the little jet setters to sweat or shiver!! :no:
 
Plus they want the FBO to start the rental cars so they interior has cooled or warmed to the appropriate temperature. Don't want the little jet setters to sweat or shiver!! :no:
It's amazing what money would buy ya. When I wanted to fly some drugs down to south Jawjuh a while back, I couldn't arrange for Enterprise to leave a car for me at any airport. :mad:
 
Shoot, I like the 15 min warning when I'm practicing approaches... lets me know if I can squeeze in another one or flip to another nearby field...

I don't like the guys who dont talk... the Citation whose initial call is 5 miles out is disconcerting to us low and slow guys...

A few weeks ago a group of us left Tune in Nashville to go to breakfast in McKinnon (Houston County) on the shores of Tenn River... so I call 10 miles out to alert my pals who are at the field, 2 miles out, 4 miles out, etc... a C-170 from the south calls inbound... and Im out there waiting, cutting circles... when I think he's likely on a short final I turn inbound and call 1.5 miles... he decides to go around and fusses that I the guy whose been on final for 15 minutes, not knowing that I've done 2 360's waiting on him... oh well...

The irritating thing about twin comanches, is that while they're reasonably quick, the VLO and VLE are both 140 mph... people hear "twin" and assume that we rip in at 160 knots... Hence, if the freq isnt too crowded, I also tell my groundspeed... dont know if I'm irritating folks or not...
 
The other reason for the 15 minute out call is to (hopefully) give the pax waiting for pickup a heads up to drink up their coffee, make their last trip to the potty and gather their bags so that we can get turned around and on the way quickly.

And it isn't always for the big guys. Going into Bakersfield in the summer when it's 105 in the shade I call Lloyd's Aviation 15 minutes out. When I taxi up the rental car is pulled up with the airconditioning running. Ahhhhhh.... service!

Best,

Jay
 
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I don't mind if they make a quick call ahead.

I mind when they spend 5 minutes blocking the frequencies on a friggin phone in lunch order.
 
Shoot, I like the 15 min warning when I'm practicing approaches... lets me know if I can squeeze in another one or flip to another nearby field...

I don't like the guys who dont talk... the Citation whose initial call is 5 miles out is disconcerting to us low and slow guys...

A few weeks ago a group of us left Tune in Nashville to go to breakfast in McKinnon (Houston County) on the shores of Tenn River... so I call 10 miles out to alert my pals who are at the field, 2 miles out, 4 miles out, etc... a C-170 from the south calls inbound... and Im out there waiting, cutting circles... when I think he's likely on a short final I turn inbound and call 1.5 miles... he decides to go around and fusses that I the guy whose been on final for 15 minutes, not knowing that I've done 2 360's waiting on him... oh well...

The irritating thing about twin comanches, is that while they're reasonably quick, the VLO and VLE are both 140 mph... people hear "twin" and assume that we rip in at 160 knots... Hence, if the freq isnt too crowded, I also tell my groundspeed... dont know if I'm irritating folks or not...

Who is this Commanche driver?
 
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