Why are ramp checks allowed when random traffic stops are not?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Huckster79, Sep 16, 2021.

  1. tawood

    tawood En-Route

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    Sigh…suddenly I’m reminded of that Mark Twain quote about arguments…. I’m out.
     
  2. Mxfarm

    Mxfarm Pre-takeoff checklist

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    as the officer told me ‘your not my target’... for my license plate light not being lit.

     
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  3. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. Joe_B1

    Joe_B1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Why would Doc Holiday be quoting Bill Brocious?
     
  5. Plano Pilot

    Plano Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    12a.jpg I have been ramped at least 3 times. Stopped my the US Coast Guard three times in my boat, once in Trinidad waters. Went through one DWI check point in Monterey, CA. on a trip.

    The USCG inspection in Tobago, Trinidad was the most intrusive. First thing they did was swab the handles below looking for drug residue. While the swabs were being tested on the Cutter the other officials did the safety inspection. Friends staying with us took the pictures.

    6a.jpg 6b.jpg 6c.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2021
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  6. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    Curly Bill and I had disagreements, but he did say some funny stuff!
     
  7. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    I got stopped because one of my headlights looked dimmer than the other. If they don’t have a reason they can make one up.
     
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  8. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I hate Uncle Sam’s Confused Group.

    They are like the FAA with guns and far less effective at what they do.
     
  9. Joe_B1

    Joe_B1 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Well, as long as Johnny Ringo was OK with it all. ;)
     
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  10. MooneyDriver78

    MooneyDriver78 En-Route

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    On the other hand I had a large motorboat blast by me in a canal and a coast guard station about 1/4 mile in front of me, all of which is a no wake zone. The CG was in their go fast boat within a minute , lights and engine at full intensity, I got up them about 15 minutes later, they were getting a full “safety” inspection, sometimes karma is a thing. :)
     
  11. Rushie

    Rushie En-Route

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    Because statistically we are at far greater risk of a plane falling out of the sky on us than we are of a car swerving and hitting us head on at 60 mph or running a red light and t-boning us at an intersection.
     
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  12. Plano Pilot

    Plano Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    We were in a small raft up one day and for no reason a ski boat circled us at just the right speed to make a big wake. I got one the VHF stated our position and asked if any law enforcement boats were near us. A Sheriff's boat answered and I stated what happened, they replied are they red or blue? I said red, about 45 minutes later the Sheriff's boat and the offender motored up to us. Sheriff stated the the offender did not have enough life jackets on board and were cited. He then asked if there was any damage and if we wanted to press charges, we passed.
     
  13. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    Damn, that's where I am based. No ramp checks here either though, at least not yet

    But what's so scary about them? Carry your medical, license, logbook, and the plane should have all the AROW docs there anyway

    The Fourth Amendment protects us from unreasonable searches.. sadly because everyone drives but only the entitled rich fly I think it would be very hard to argue this one in court. "Of course it's reasonable to make sure that Timmy has his pilot's license and the plane is legal to fly" .. by the same folks that would cry wolf if you told them to expect random traffic stops, clearly one is reasonable and one it not /s
     
  14. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg En-Route

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    I carry neither logbook nor medical ala Basic Med with me. To your point, though, I haven't had the opportunity to say to a fed or two "Sorry, I'm busy doing other things and cannot be impeded" yet. But I'd have no problem doing so. Even if "other things" were posting on PoA from the hangar. :D
     
  15. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yeah. Just have your papers. All the comparisons of traffic stops to ramp checks aren't realistic. Now if you've started up and are taxing out and the airport po-leece block you and demand you shut down, get out and show your papers, well yeah, that's another thing.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier En-Route PoA Supporter

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    I didn’t know I had to have my logbook in the plane with me. I usually do but is there some reg says I do or do I have to “produce it” in a reasonable time.

    I think you don’t have to have your drivers license with you in Ohio. You do have to “produce it” in a reasonable time and life can be annoying if you don’t have with you in the car.

    Cheers
     
  17. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I don't believe the law actually states that you have to have your 'logbook', but how else would you prove currency and legality to fly? Let's say you have passengers with you.. ?

    Even if it's not required wouldn't it just be easier to have? For what it's worth I just carry foreflight iPad logbook
     
  18. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    I believe the law is similar where I live too, but I always wondered about the actual mechanics of this..

    Feels like it would make your life a lot more difficult to not have it during a traffic stop, and how would you actually 'produce' it?

    Not you, but some people pick odd battles to fight.. like the folks that are sober but out of principle make a big fuss at a DUI checkpoint.. just roll the window down and let the cop ask you a few questions and you can go on your merry way

    ???
     
  19. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I don’t have proof of currency in the airplane. Nothing requires me to do that and if asked I’ll produce the records in a timely manner at my convenience.

    I should say when I have been asked I produced them in a timely manner at my convenience.
     
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  20. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

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    I just had my Basic Med physical a few weeks ago and the doctor specifically said I would NOT be rump checked, so I’m all set for four more years. Take that, FAA!
     
  21. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    LMAO. My vote for Zinger of the Day.
     
  22. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    You are not required to carry a logbook, nor are you required to show currency on the spot. If that is questioned, you are given time to produce it.
     
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  23. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg En-Route

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    This is my take on things, for all values of "at my convenience" that match "10 days after receipt of this letter" which is what I believe they provide/demand :D
     
  24. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Pattern Altitude

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    Thanks for the insight, I do find the comparisons to traffic stops while under motion not quite apples to apples. But there is good insight shared here.
     
  25. Katamarino

    Katamarino Pattern Altitude

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    Only once, in the C182 in Abuja, Nigeria. All my documents were in French, which he didn't speak, so he just assumed I was good to go.
     
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  26. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

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    This is great, one more reason to translate all of my documents and interior cockpit labeling (on Tantalums future Aztec (if he stays poor, or Velocity if he gets modestly rich, up through DA62/TBM) to aurebesh
     
  27. tawood

    tawood En-Route

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    I boat on the Great Lakes...I've never minded a check from the Michigan or Canadian DNR (which happens every so often and at most takes but a couple of minutes) but the USCG? Fuggetaboutit! Talk about a pain in the rear end! The USCG have taken my ID for HOURS before and just boated away with it until they can't be seen, no joke. They have ruined the entire day of fishing on more than one occasion with their slow/ridiculous boarding and power trip attitudes. It got so bad, many years ago I told my kids, who were about 8 to 12 years old at the time and VERY meek/quiet kids that this was their chance to be a-holes whenever we were boarded by USCG. My daughter didn't really do anything different but my 10 year old son, with his adult sense of humor, actually made the USCG boarding hilarious. He suddenly would become Tony Soprano, telling them all to go fornicate with their mothers, or saying they're so dumb it takes them 2 hours to watch 60 minutes, etc. Call it bad parenting, but after ruining so many days with my family, I absolutely enjoyed the heck out of it. Once after my son got off a particularly bad burn, one of the USCG tried calling me out on it saying, "You let your kid talk like that?" I responded, "I teach my kid to tell the truth, what's your point?" Then I ripped into him for about 5 minutes about how every other time I went fishing, these jerks would ruin the day. I get that they have a job to do, and I'd have no problem with a 5 or 10 minute boarding, but the QUICKEST one I ever had from them was probably 90 minutes, and I tried the 'be polite and respectful' route many times...they only got worse when you did that. And they've boarded my boat over a dozen times...never found a single violation either (although they've certainly tried). Its so bad, I've stopped fishing Lake Huron (that's where they lurk due to Canada drug runners), and now only fish Lake Michigan.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  28. A Martin

    A Martin Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Almost instant technology ... they know within seconds .... just happened to me .... my car registration was expired ... (unknown to me) .... offices had been closed (COVID) and I had done my renewal over the phone and they got the date wrong (typo) .... police car was approaching me .... I had no concerns ... but he immediately turned around and pulled me over and informed me of no valid registration or insurance .

    Great cop ... had no choice but to issue the ticket but then actually drove me to the insurance office so I could fix everything and then I could drive my car home. I am sure he could have called a tow truck and impounded my car.

    Turns out that system is everywhere .... our small city removed all the parking meters and laid off all the workers ... then hired a private contractor in one car who simply drives up and down the street and through the public parking lots .... it reads every single licence plate and if a car is there for over one hour issues a ticket ..

    Now they are installing plate reading cameras on bridges and main thoroughfares and record everything coming and going.

    I have always been a law abiding citizen but find this intense tracking is some scary sh#t.

    .
     
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  29. Everskyward

    Everskyward Experimenter PoA Supporter

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    Agree. I got stopped on I-70 in Kansas for having plates that didn't correspond to the car. It was a rental car. The officer told me that they do that sometimes. No ticket for me, but not sure if he got back to the rental car company.
     
  30. Fearless Tower

    Fearless Tower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    As I said earlier. I abhor the Coast Guard.

    Between my experience as a Merchant Mariner and as a Naval officer, I have nothing but contempt for that organization.

    About the only thing they do well is SAR.

    That’s probably why I cut the FAA slack….because I’ve seen much worse!
     
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  31. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    They do a good job at maintaining buoys. ;)
     
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  32. luvflyin

    luvflyin Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Reminds me of a story. It was at a Motorcycle Rally in Paso Robles, mostly the Harley crowd. We was at the hotel(yeah, yeah, we was being weenies and not camping) and needed beer. So we jump on the scooters and head up main street in town lookin for a place to get some brew. Yup, check point a few blocks up the street. Get in line and we get to front, cop shined his flashlight on us and asked a couple questions. We was cool, hadn't been drinkin much yet. Then I told him we were on a beer run and asked where the nearest place was to get some. Look on his face was priceless. An 'are you effin with me' kinda look. I guess my look was not an 'I'm effin with you look'. He said there's a 7/11 a few blocks up on the right.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  33. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel En-Route

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    DOT enforcement can and does roll into rest areas unannounced and conduct random roadside inspections on trucks and their drivers that are parked there.
     
  34. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    But those are state owned places and part of the highway system, not my office and private property. Commercial trucks probably don't have the same protections a private individual does while on public roadways.
     
  35. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel En-Route

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    Considering that commercial trucks are regulated by federal code rather than at the state level, this is likely the case. Airplanes, even private ones, are also regulated by federal code rather than at the state level.
     
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  36. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Commercial transport vs private. The DOT cannot roll up on a private citizen in a car and demand the same.
     
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  37. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

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  38. A Martin

    A Martin Pre-takeoff checklist

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    .

    I found a picture of our local parking patrol vehicle .... it continually cruises up and down the streets .... scans every licence plate and records it .... also records the time and location .... so later on if a particular car has not moved within an hour it automatically issues a ticket which will come in the mail .

    It is all done automatically by computer .... all the driver does is drive ... the system has access to all your car ownership information including your address .... I was told the unit (computer) can process 400,000 pieces of information per minute as it drives.

    What concerns me most is our city council told us it was a city run system ... yet I see the vehicle parked in front of our police station. I bet they share information.

    Big brother is here .

    With the modern face recognition technology soon every person will be tracked the same way .

    .
    parking patrol.JPG
     
  39. David Megginson

    David Megginson Pattern Altitude

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    Not sure about U.S. law, but in Ontario I think the police still do random traffic stops during the R.I.D.E. (Reduce Impaired Driving Everywhere) programme over the holidays.

    I've been stopped at a R.I.D.E. checkpoint a few times, but I've never been ramp checked by Transport Canada or seen it happen to anyone else in 19 years of flying.
     
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  40. Lachlan

    Lachlan En-Route

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    Not even as a student pilot?