Who else loves short field???

@Sazzy I've got a Skywagon at RYV, not too far from you. If you want to go for a ride let me know and we can go play in the grass/dirt.

For those of you not from this area, a particularly interesting thing about 96C where Sazzy was doing short landing work, is that's where American Champion is based and builds all of their planes. Every Decathlon/Champ/Scout/Citabria has taken off from that airport.

@rwellner98 and @ethanb rolls with a bunch of guys that do some AMAZING STOL work out on the West side of Madison. They're all members of the RAF (Recreational Aviation Foundation) a fantastic organization that promotes the fun side of Backcountry flying. You should join and see what it's all about!
 
Mtns2Skies said:
@Sazzy I've got a Skywagon at RYV, not too far from you. If you want to go for a ride let me know and we can go play in the grass/dirt.

For those of you not from this area, a particularly interesting thing about 96C where Sazzy was doing short landing work, is that's where American Champion is based and builds all of their planes. Every Decathlon/Champ/Scout/Citabria has taken off from that airport.

@rwellner98 and @ethanb rolls with a bunch of guys that do some AMAZING STOL work out on the West side of Madison. They're all members of the RAF (Recreational Aviation Foundation) a fantastic organization that promotes the fun side of Backcountry flying. You should join and see what it's all about!
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Yyyyyup! That was the first thing my instructor told me about the airport. In fact my instructor actually owns a Champ, I've been up in it a couple times.

The grass strip was obviously covered in snow yesterday, but I'm looking forward to trying it out next year!
 
Sazzy, I learned flying from a 2300 foot strip with obstacles at both ends, 50 feet tall at one end, 20 at the other. None of the flight schools in our area allowed their students to fly into KCGS new designation, because it was too short for safe use. Given the number of planes that have crashed there over the years, there is good reason to believe that. On the other hand, most of the crashes were aircraft not based there,, thus, the problem was pilots not properly trained for short fields.

I definitely approve of your instructors training program, gradually introducing you to more challenging skills, as he feels you are ready for them. My instructor was similar in his technique, I was better than his average student, and received training before my check ride that was not in the requirements for the PPL. I have not had the flying excitement of those early years since, but still recall them with great satisfaction

At 85, flying is still great fun, though!
 
Sazzy said:
Well while the mild sarcasm wasn't absolutely necessary, I won't let it detract from my excitement of a brand new experience that I very much enjoyed. BUT you did spell out plain and simple good things to remember that I will take with me--apprehensiveness is ok, in my book, but yes, no need to be nervous. And yes, good point with the go-around standard.
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Apprehensiveness is vital, IMO, because it helps avoid becoming complacent about safety. My motto is, never ride with a pilot who knows no fear.

Of course, one must learn to function in spite of fear. I still haven't mastered that, because on every landing I've made in a real emergency, I have flared too high. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, I haven't had enough real emergencies to train myself out of that, and I haven't figured out a way to simulate fear! :redface:
 
jordane93 said:
At max gross weight, ISA, and dry runway, you need 2535ft over a 50ft obstacle. That’s where Cirrus is getting the 2500ft minimum number.
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That explains it. The airport is at seven feet MSL, and the tall obstacles are well separated from it.

What generation Cirrus do you guys have? Maybe the older ones require less landing distance? All my
time is in G3 and newer and a majority of it is G5 and G6.
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We have a 2004, a 2014, and a 2016. I don't know the model designations.

http://www.wvfc.org/aircraft
 
Zeldman said:
My favorite runways are short. And not paved. And usually bent. Or not even a runway at all but a place that looks clear enough to put a C-206 in it and take off again.

I am thinking of going back to work in Alaska next summer, or maybe the next 2 or 3 summers, and then call it a career. I am thinking that being over 60 is getting too old for off airport work. But checking weather in Alaska is a whole lot easier than it used to be.
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I prefer a nice strip of grass myself, maybe that's why I moved to an airpark with grass runway. Pavement is okay as well, but it feels weird when the runway is gigantic. I know that it would never be granted, but I almost want to call the tower at those places, and ask if i can just land on a taxiway instead. They often have such massive taxiways, it seems like they could have just built them, and skipped the actual runway construction. Where I did my PPL already had a massive main runway, and the last time I flew up there, I noticed that they added several more thousand feet to it. At least if three 777s need to land at once for some reason, they should be able to do so on it now. Since I knew where I was going once I did land there, I just landed intentionally about mid point on the runway to save having to taxi so far.
 
geezer said:
Sazzy, I learned flying from a 2300 foot strip with obstacles at both ends, 50 feet tall at one end, 20 at the other. None of the flight schools in our area allowed their students to fly into KCGS new designation, because it was too short for safe use. Given the number of planes that have crashed there over the years, there is good reason to believe that. On the other hand, most of the crashes were aircraft not based there,, thus, the problem was pilots not properly trained for short fields.
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At one time I used to fly rented 172s out of the old Ramapo Airport in NY (anybody remember that?) which according to the chart was 2300' but everybody thought that was wildly optimistic, even the airport management said it was 2000. The standard joke was that the pilots who learned at Teterboro would come up to Ramapo to crash their planes. There was a sizeable airplane scrap heap off one end of the runway. That was back in the 1980s, nowadays Teterboro is all jets and there's a shopping center where Ramapo was.:(

My home field nowadays is 2700, the locals, even the Senecas and Mailbus have no trouble, but once or twice a year a visitor goes down the steep hill off the end of the runway. I and a lot of the other taildragger pilots land on the 900' long strip of grass between the runway and taxiway whenever possible.
 
Shuswap BC said:
I know that it would never be granted, but I almost want to call the tower at those places, and ask if i can just land on a taxiway instead.
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Ask. You might get a response of something like '' land at your own risk''. Pick the slow time of day. Might entertain the controllers.
 
Short field landings are tons of fun. Anyone can grease one in on a mile+ long runway, once you learn how to keep the nose off and touch down with minimal energy. Keep backing up the touchdown point til it’s right where you intend it to be, and get stopped in as short of a distance as safely possible, without having to ride the brakes, although those can be pretty fun, too! (Especially if brakes are cheap items to replace. Your airframe may vary.). ;)

edited to add: airspeed and altitude. Mastery of energy management will make you into a great short field pilot. Nail the correct airspeed(s) for the airplane you’re flying at the right point(s) in the pattern or approach and you’ll put that airplane right where you want it, every single time. Airspeed/pitch, altitude/descent rate rate/power. Balance those things out properly and the satisfaction is it’s own reward.
 
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RoscoeT said:
But what's the power OFF stall speed? ;)
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In ground effect? About 20. Lower the tail at 25 and it flies back off. Seriously. I have no interest in power off stall speed out of ground effect but I'll check it when I get it re-powered.
 
Stewartb said:
In ground effect? About 20. Lower the tail at 25 and it flies back off. Seriously. I have no interest in power off stall speed out of ground effect but I'll check it when I get it re-powered.
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All I'm saying is that you won't quite fly into the trees at 17mph in an emergency engine out situation, but I'll take your Cub any day over a Lancair engine out emergency.
 
That's a fair assessment about the treetops and I agree with the summary! Slats are amazing. Slats in combination with 9' Keller flaps are unbelievable!
 
Living beside 2900 feet of grass airstrip, with a formidable forest at the north end, its fun to hear from new pilots after they land when the grass is wet. When its dry it offers a little braking, not a lot if you were only used to asphalt, but some...add morning dew, or a recent rain shower into the mix, and braking coefficient is about the same as landing on ice. When they get stopped only about 50 feet away from the trees, they are usually a little excited when they exit their plane, and they share the story with anyone who will listen. Very entertaining to say the least!
One gentleman and his family left the plane right where it eventually stopped, and walked back down the runway still shaking. A few of us went up to turn it around for him, and we towed it back and off the active with an atv...I would estimate around 30' from spinner to first tree. If you are not experienced in wet grass landings, don't underestimate them.
 
Of course, short is relative.

Regardless of runway length, I think it’s good to continually practice putting the plane down at the minimum speed consistent with conditions on a certain spot on the runway. With no obstructions, I try to plant the plane literally on the numbers if possible. That means beginning the roundout and flare short of the runway, but you can get pretty good at knowing how much energy you’re carrying and when it’s going to run out. But I also have no problem choosing a point way down a runway to avoid excessive taxiing - traffic permitting, of course.

Since Cirrus’s have come up, mine was based mostly at N Perry in Hollywood, FL. The E/W runways are about 3,200’, and if I had my airspeed nailed on final I could make the midfield turnoff without excessive braking maybe 3 times out of 4. I guess my point is to use most every landing as an opportunity to hone your skills.
 
Sazzy..Try short field this way for the naysayers.

A plane is nearing its destination. The pilot turns to his co-pilot and remarks: "That looks like a really short runway." The co-pilot looks at it and says: "Yes, captain, its really short." 100 meters from the runway, the pilot communicates to the passengers and crew: "Fasten your seatbelts, this is going to be an extremely close landing!" The plane touches down on the ground, engages maximum breaks, and with schreaching tires comes to a stop two meters from the end of the runway. "Phew, " says the pilot relieved. "That was the shortest landing I've ever made." The co-pilot looks out of the windows and answers: "And certainly on the widest runway I've every seen.."
 
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