Which taildragger would you buy?

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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3Green
I still haven't heard back from MarcAir about trying to get lessons in the Citabria... arggh! Voice mails and emails go unanswered.

I have a friend that I fly once a month with in his well-equipped Cherokee 235, doing instrument approaches. We also use it for Angel Flights.

The hangar next to him is empty (no waiting list in Denton, TX!), and we got to talking last night after the flight that I should consider buying a nice weekend flyer (taildragger), and we could both be named-insureds on each other's policy and fly each other's airplanes.

That could be a sweet setup... he's a good friend, great pilot, we both respect each other, I think it could work.

So, I want your input on a nice weekend taildragger. I know that Tom has said some aren't good due to rust issues, etc. I'd like to build my own RV-7 someday, but that ain't gonna happen right now... so....

I want either a tandem or side-by-side that will carry 600+ lbs payload (not necessarily with full fuel, but with 2+45 for sure), is easy on the insurance/parts equation, isn't a handful to fly, and is just plane (pun intended) FUN. And, let's try to keep it under $75K. Definitely under $90K. That leaves out a Waco, Stearman, etc. (DANG!) :)

I want something I can fly "low and slow" on weekends to breakfast flights or grass strips, but is fast enough that I can also go to Gastons or the beach for the weekend....

Suggestions? Tell me what I should be looking for.
 
I can empathize. My wife doesn't like to fly all that much and I am seriously considering selling the Cherokee and getting a taildragger, especially if I can find a partner. I'm thinking Super Cub or Husky, maybe.

I like many of the tandom SUV-type taildraggers for the same reason I like helicopters -- low and slow is fun!
 
Take a look at the Maule (spelling) which are close to the 600 lbs requirement depending on engine. The C-180 is getting on the edge of the price range.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

John
 
Diana said:
I had a Texas Taildragger and probably wouldn't recommend one. It's cheaper than a lot of other taildraggers and that's why we bought it.
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What was wrong with it, Diana?

To the others... the 600# payload isn't a requirement. Say 450 with full tanks or enough to go two hours. I'd like to be able to take two REAL people and small bags and not be over gross. I may have built in too much "fluff" room at 600#; let's open the field and say 450 with enough gas for 2-3 hours plus reserves.

IFR capable would be nice, but not a requirement; his Cherokee 235 will do that.
 
Troy Whistman said:
To the others... the 600# payload isn't a requirement. Say 450 with full tanks or enough to go two hours. I'd like to be able to take two REAL people and small bags and not be over gross. I may have built in too much "fluff" room at 600#; let's open the field and say 450 with enough gas for 2-3 hours plus reserves.

IFR capable would be nice, but not a requirement; his Cherokee 235 will do that.
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I was wondering why you thought you needed a 600lb payload. A Super Cub will haul two plus bags although there's not much room for bags. Prices run anywhere from mid 20's to just under 100k.

Another fairly inexpensive possibility would be a Stinson.

And I don't know why you think you can't afford a Stearman. There are many available in your price range.
 
lancefisher said:
I was wondering why you thought you needed a 600lb payload. A Super Cub will haul two plus bags although there's not much room for bags. Prices run anywhere from mid 20's to just under 100k.

Another fairly inexpensive possibility would be a Stinson.

And I don't know why you think you can't afford a Stearman. There are many available in your price range.
Click to expand...

I LOVE the lines on those old Stinson's; especially the ones with the rounded tails. More importantly, my wife likes those old Stinsons.

I hadn't looked at a Stearman because I presumed they'd be out of my price range. That sure would be fun to fly into Gaston's with, but the line for rides would be LONG. That couldn't be a fun airplane to fly in when it rained... all your charts, your lap, etc. would get wet. How did they handle that?
 
amigos!

stinsons are wonderful airplanes; solid, safe, easy to fly, exceptional handling and a pussycat of a tail-dragger. i flew 52M for over 15 years. got my IR in it, did lots of mods (1 pc windshield, avionics, engine change to O-540!). i even bossed the stinson club for a couple of years. nice bunch of folks.

the only reservation i have in recommending a stinson is the franklin engine. parts are getting more and more difficult to find. few mechanics are familiar with them. but if you like to tinker, swing wrenches and are willing to learn i would say the stinson is hard to beat for the money. cheaper than a c-170, hauls more and handles nicer. somewhat faster, too (honest 100kts cruise with the f-165). also, the 108-3 is a true 4 place airplane. fill the tanks (50gals), seats (170lbs per) and baggage compartment (100lbs) and you're good to go. basically, if you can get it thru the door, it'll haul it.

find a ride in a stinson and you may be hopelessly hooked.

hope this helps!

blue skies,
vic & N522A
 
Troy Whistman said:
What was wrong with it, Diana?
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Troy, some Texas Taildraggers are squirrelly on the ground. That airplane seemed to be so awkward and cumbersome in the way it behaved; I realized it even more so after I started flying the Citabria. The Citabria seems like a more "honest" handling airplane.

After I wrecked mine a gentleman from the NTSB called me about my conversion. They were seeing a higher than expected number of crashes of Texas Taildraggers and were thinking of re-evaluating the conversions.
 
Troy I too was going to suggest a Stinson. Although I don't personally know much about them I have heard great things about them.
 
Dean said:
If you like the Stearman, how about a Starduster 2?
Click to expand...

I used to have one (actually called a Starduster Too) and it's quite a different bird than a Stearman. Stall speed in the 'Too is about 60 mph and the gear is very stiff and short coupled. A Stearman is a pussycat by comparison. The Starduster sure was fun though. I was assuming from Troy's original post that he was looking for a certified airplane. There's lots of homebuilts that would meet his other requirements.
 
AdamZ said:
Troy I too was going to suggest a Stinson. Although I don't personally know much about them I have heard great things about them.
Click to expand...

I can tell you that my brother in law recently picked a pretty nice one up for less than $30k.
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Troy Whistman wrote: a bunch of requirements easily fulfilled by a beautiful and inexpensive Bellanca taildragger
Click to expand...

funny you should mention this; i actually sold my stinson 108-3 to buy a 1951 14-19 bellanca cruisemaster. same great handling as a stinson (in the air and on the ground) and it's more than 30kts faster. :yes: but with the 14-19 you'd still be stuck with an orphaned engine: the lycoming O-435-A. and the same problems as with the franklin: no factory support, parts supply dwindling, not many shops know the engine, etc. also, there's only ONE prop for the O-435 and the old ones have an expensive 250hr A.D. the new replacement prop is very expensive ($14k new :eek: ).

plus, you need to be VERY picky about the wood in the wings. if they've been taken care of over the years, they should be fine. if the airplane has EVER sat derelict outside, forget it (unless the factory has repaired the rot).

if you can find a 1957 14-19-2 with the O-470-K that's in good condition, that's a great flying machine for the money. the O-470 is still in production, parts are plentiful and every mechanic in the world knows this engine (same as in the C-182) but a GOOD one will cost you upwards of $40k.

in the $20-$30k price range i'd go for a nice stinson over a ratty bellanca. not quite as fast, but comfortable and much simpler to maintain.

once again, get a ride in each and see what you think. but keep in mind the extra cost of maintaining a retractable a/c with adjustable prop.

if you're ever in the l.a. area, look me up. i'm always glad to talk classic airplanes!

blue skies,
vic & N522A
661-904-3860 (cell)
 
trombair said:
funny you should mention this; i actually sold my stinson 108-3 to buy a 1951 14-19 bellanca cruisemaster. same great handling as a stinson (in the air and on the ground) and it's more than 30kts faster.
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Good tip, Vic. I don't know a lot about the Viking precursors.... I think there is the original 14-19 you mentioned and then 14-19-2, and I have seen a 14-19-3.
And there are -A and -B, -C sub-models?
Mainly engine differences?
 
lancefisher said:
I used to have one (actually called a Starduster Too) and it's quite a different bird than a Stearman. Stall speed in the 'Too is about 60 mph and the gear is very stiff and short coupled. A Stearman is a pussycat by comparison. The Starduster sure was fun though. I was assuming from Troy's original post that he was looking for a certified airplane. There's lots of homebuilts that would meet his other requirements.
Click to expand...

I was talking more about the bi-wing and open cockpit, but I did'nt know they had such a high stall speed. There is one for sale here locally for $30K.
 
Troy Whistman said:
So, I want your input on a nice weekend taildragger. I know that Tom has said some aren't good due to rust issues, etc. I'd like to build my own RV-7 someday, but that ain't gonna happen right now... so....

I want either a tandem or side-by-side that will carry 600+ lbs payload (not necessarily with full fuel, but with 2+45 for sure), is easy on the insurance/parts equation, isn't a handful to fly, and is just plane (pun intended) FUN. And, let's try to keep it under $75K. Definitely under $90K. That leaves out a Waco, Stearman, etc. (DANG!) :)

I want something I can fly "low and slow" on weekends to breakfast flights or grass strips, but is fast enough that I can also go to Gastons or the beach for the weekend....

Suggestions? Tell me what I should be looking for.
Click to expand...

All the C-170-_ are max gross weight at 2200# so find a 48 RAG WING and you will fall in love.

you have some really good aircraft suggested here. also look at the Piper Vagabond, PA 14 and the PA 22 Pacer both are really fun to fly aircraft.

Your price range pretty much places you at the low end hear needs a lot of work, C-180. You just won't find a safe to fly C-185 for your price range.

How much fun can you stand?


1944 Fairchild 1900 0 Ketchum ID
1944 FAIRCHILD F24W, 1900 TT, Warner 165 0 SMOH Sept '05, excellent aircraft. ID/(916) 802-2858. quack@cox-internet.com (916) 802-2858
Last Modified: 09/01/2005

1946 Fairchild 2100 100 Prosser WA $75,000
1946 FAIRCHILD F24W, 165 Warner, 2100 TT, 100 SMOH, fresh annual, beautiful Museum quality. $75,000. WA/(509) 781-4505. (509) 781-4505

Can you believe we have 2 F-24s for sale in Wa and Id.?

I'd love to deliver and check you out,,Talk about a hit at Gastons...

you can't take one anywhere with out drawing a crowd..the oooouu and aaaaawe factor is off the scale.

The one at Prosser is absolutly beautifullllllllllllllll ! like brand new, and runs great..
 
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Let'sgoflying! said:
Good tip, Vic. I don't know a lot about the Viking precursors.... I think there is the original 14-19 you mentioned and then 14-19-2, and I have seen a 14-19-3.
And there are -A and -B, -C sub-models?
Mainly engine differences?
Click to expand...

dave,

the basic run-down is this:

http://www.russellw.com/planes/cruisemaster/history.htm

there really isn't a big difference in cruise speeds between the 190hp, 230hp and the 260hp. my 190hp gets 135 to 140 ktas on a repeatable basis. the 230hp and 260hp have higher gross wgts and climb a bit better, but the tas are about the same (maybe 5kts faster).

the 14-19-3 is a triple tail and a nose-dragger. the 14-19-3a is a single tail (early viking) with the same IO-470 engine.

all good classic cruisers with nice handling and distinctive looks. :yes: and the prices are still an amazing bargain for the perfomance. but you must be willing to deal with old airplane issues and you must hangar that gorgeous wooden work of art (wing).

hope this helps!

blue skies,
 
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