Where do you go if not to the airlines ?

[jdwatson]

Greetings all !

I don't know if there are many pilots like me, but lately I've been giving serious thought to "what's next" in terms of careers. At my age, the Airlines is not an option, so where does one go in aviation if the majors & teaching are taken off the table ?

The idea of being a freight-dog appeals to me, but are there other careers out there for mature competent pilots ?

 

[Henning]

Greetings all !

I don't know if there are many pilots like me, but lately I've been giving serious thought to "what's next" in terms of careers. At my age, the Airlines is not an option, so where does one go in aviation if the majors & teaching are taken off the table ?

The idea of being a freight-dog appeals to me, but are there other careers out there for mature competent pilots ?

There's corporate jets as well if that is the type of flying you want to do. The single guys I know doing it like it just fine, the married guys I know are split about 50/50 due mostly to scheduleing, or more acurately lack thereof and being on call, and time home issues. There is also Ag work, pipeline, aerial photo and whatever niche you can find for yourself.

 

[bbchien]

There's corporate jets as well if that is the type of flying you want to do. The single guys I know doing it like it just fine, the married guys I know are split about 50/50 due mostly to scheduleing, or more acurately lack thereof and being on call, and time home issues. There is also Ag work, pipeline, aerial photo and whatever niche you can find for yourself.

If you are single with no dependents, corporate flying is pretty sweet. Like Mil flying before the family. Not so hot on Freight Dog. Too many ways to get killed. Shoulda died five times....

 

[jdwatson]

I should have kept true to my dream when I was 16. I let the nay-sayers scare me off. I ended up a corporate monkey. One good thing, perhaps the only thing, was that I met my Bride at work. If that's the cost, well I'm alright with the payment.

 

[jdwatson]

If you are single with no dependents, corporate flying is pretty sweet. Like Mil flying before the family. Not so hot on Freight Dog. Too many ways to get killed. Shoulda died five times....

5 times ? Should we start a new thread for you to recount the daring-dos ? Why is freight so fraught with fright ? (ok, too much alliteration)

 

[silver-eagle]

A friend of mine used to fly checks and other bank stuff. As I recall, he used his plane (a small twin). Another used to fly FEDEX on a route.
Freight sounds like it could be fun with the right company and location.

 

[jdwatson]

John,
That's my take on Freight. Besides, package don't judge the whole flight on the landing. ;-)

 

[Ed Guthrie]

Greetings all !

I don't know if there are many pilots like me, but lately I've been giving serious thought to "what's next" in terms of careers. At my age, the Airlines is not an option, so where does one go in aviation if the majors & teaching are taken off the table ?

The idea of being a freight-dog appeals to me, but are there other careers out there for mature competent pilots ?

Buddy of mine is making ~70k after ~5 years with a freight & charter company. He flies left seat on a Lear 60. IIRC, his life is two weeks on the beeper followed by one week of off duty time. His home base is Lancaster, PA, which is a nice, medium sized town with quite reasonable cost of living.

The above being the long winded version of "charter could be a good option".

 

[Stache]

Besides flying Part 91 with private owners there are other options. As an example a large part 135 some pay as well if not better than the airlines (first hand experience). The other is the Fracitical ownership companies.

Both of these operations have taken off since 9/11, however part 135 is the best pay off right now. And there is the small part 121 regional carriers, but there pay is rock bottom. Everyone has to start somewhere most of us have started at the bottom more than once.

Stache

 

[sere]

There's corporate jets as well if that is the type of flying you want to do. The single guys I know doing it like it just fine, the married guys I know are split about 50/50 due mostly to scheduleing, or more acurately lack thereof and being on call, and time home issues. There is also Ag work, pipeline, aerial photo and whatever niche you can find for yourself.

What is needed to get into tha ag line of work besides a commerical and a state certification on use of chemicals. Also how does one get into this. Been in the back of my mind for some time.

 

[Henning]

What is needed to get into tha ag line of work besides a commerical and a state certification on use of chemicals. Also how does one get into this. Been in the back of my mind for some time.

Well, do you live in farm country, particularly rice? Rice gets a lot of air time seeding if you are in the undrained paddy areas, can get real interesting as well as you often work off of levees and roads because of the small coverage and heavy loads, Ag Cats are best for this because of the top wing. If you go in and end up upside down, it'll keep your head out of the water.

You need a part 137 signoff. You can get this from either the FAA, they'll watch you make a few spray passes with water on the airport as well as an oral exam. You can also get signed off by a 137 Operators certificate after they provide you training.

There are also a few private training programs as well as university programs. Harold Miller used to run a good training course in Leland IL, but he got killed last fall flying mosquito abatement after the hurricanes around Tampa. There used to also be a program out of Bainbridge Georgia I think as well, but I never met any of their crew. Find a copy of Ag Air Update, there'll be info in there.

Typically to be insurable, you need to have over 1000 hrs and they like to see 200+hrs of tailwheel, but that can often be worked down to 50.

Oh yeah, you need a helmet, trust me on that.

 

[sere]

Well, do you live in farm country, particularly rice? Rice gets a lot of air time seeding if you are in the undrained paddy areas, can get real interesting as well as you often work off of levees and roads because of the small coverage and heavy loads, Ag Cats are best for this because of the top wing. If you go in and end up upside down, it'll keep your head out of the water.

You need a part 137 signoff. You can get this from either the FAA, they'll watch you make a few spray passes with water on the airport as well as an oral exam. You can also get signed off by a 137 Operators certificate after they provide you training.

There are also a few private training programs as well as university programs. Harold Miller used to run a good training course in Leland IL, but he got killed last fall flying mosquito abatement after the hurricanes around Tampa. There used to also be a program out of Bainbridge Georgia I think as well, but I never met any of their crew. Find a copy of Ag Air Update, there'll be info in there.

Typically to be insurable, you need to have over 1000 hrs and they like to see 200+hrs of tailwheel, but that can often be worked down to 50.

Oh yeah, you need a helmet, trust me on that.

Thanks for the information. I have over 950 hrs and about 30 tailwheel so almost there. By the time I would get the training I would meet those requirements. Still have my 55P helmet so that is covered. LOL Just need to find someone to bring me on board. Again thanks.

 

[Doug R]

JDW. Just read your post. I'll leave you a PM with my number. I did the mid life career change... two kids wife dog great money tired/bored with being a corp guy. I can give you some real no b.s. insite on what it takes and what to expect. It would take to long of a post here...best covered in a conversation. I can tell you stories about the good bad and ugly side of the business. I am one of the lucky ones VERY LUCKY and landed a nice local Corporate gig that does me well, as with anything timing and good friends/connections do help tremendously in this business...its a very small world in the business side of aviation.

 

[Speed]

What Bruce said... Besides, how old are you? If you aren't set on a major (for airlines) a guy got hired into my class at Horizon at age 56!

Here's one for all the freight pilots. ​

You might be a freight dog if:
1. Your airplane was getting old when you were born.
2. You have not done a daylight landing in the past six months.
3. ATC advices you of smoother air at a different altitude, and you ask them "what do you want me to do about it?".
4. When you taxi up to an FBO they roll out the red carpet, but quickly take it back when they recognize you.
5. You call the hotel van to pick you up and they don't understand where You are on the airport.
6. Center asks you to "keep the chickens down" so they can hear you talk.
7. Your airplane has more than 75,000 cycles.
8. Your company call sign is "Oil Can".
9. The lady at the FBO locks up the popcorn machine because you plan on "making a meal of it".
10. Your airplane has more than eight faded logos on it.
11. You wear the same shirt for a week, and no one complains. 12. Center mispronounces your call sign more than three times in one flight.
13. Your D O mysteriously changes your max takeoff weight during the holiday season.
14. Every FBO makes you park out of sight of their building.
15. You have ever walked barefoot through the FBO because you just woke up.
16. You mark every ramp with engine oil.
17. Everything you own is in you flight bag and suitcase.
18. Center offers you vectors around a thunderstorm, and you decline so you can wash the bugs off.
19. You frequently get asked to volunteer as a pathfinder through the storms.​

FREIGHT DOGS​

​

On the other hand, some pilots just wear raggedy old clothes and hang around airport ramps at 2:00-3:00 o'clock in the morning. They are the young guys, freight dogs, trying to get a foot in the door. Never mind the weather, if the airport is open, they go. They have to figure out their weather, do their own weight and balance, take care of the preflight in snow and wind, load it, net it down, unload and try to explain to some van driver what headwinds are and how they can put you behind schedule. The van driver looks at him suspiciously, and wonders if this is the old “bucket of prop wash” foolishness. Your copilot is that little niche of your brain which you carve out to keep track of what you are doing. It has to constantly ask the other part of your brain if things are going o.k.; “Sir... with all due respect, ATC is calling for holds down around Teterboro, perhaps you might want to slow this thing down so you won't have do circles in this clag for forty-five minutes or so.” Or the niche copilot might point out that you are one dot right of course on the ILS when East Overshoe Airport is reporting 200 over and 1800 RVR with a direct crosswind of 15 knots. Not bad in a 727, but real work in a light general aviation twin, near gross, no autopilot, and some guy in a nice, warm tower cab is reporting “braking action poor by a truck, you are cleared to land.” And all of this at night.

At times that same little copilot will ask “Why are we out here trying to thread those thunderstorms using a radar which hasn't been tuned since it was installed in this airplane some 15 years ago? Best look outside and since it is still night, try to avoid flying where the flashes are, because that means there is a thunderstorm there. Never mind what ATC told you, his scope is not weather radar.” And the captain part of the brain answers: “I'm here because I have to get the time and experience in order to qualify for the regional airlines; after the regionals I hope to get with a major airline which doesn't keep furloughing me every six months or so. You see, copilot brain, it is all seniority number. I will live and die by that stupid number. No matter how good I am, no matter how many times I make a decision which saves the lives of a couple of hundred dozing, drinking, passengers back there in the tube, the company who hires me is going to go by the seniority number. I have to get there as soon as I can. So tonight, you and I are threading these damnable thunderstorms which are bent on depriving me of my shot at the majors; it is a battle, my will and cunning against theirs, just me and them, no company dispatchers, and of course ATC is useless. It is me and them, pardner. And by the way, don't think that they don't have a personality of their own; from the bully on the block to the wimp, they're trying to kill me. Never mind though, I have had similar battles this past winter with a relative of theirs called ‘Ice.’ I beat him, and I'll beat his summertime cousins, too.”

​

Then at about 6:00 a.m., after unloading, and perhaps driving the van to deliver the cargo, the kid can go home and get some sleep. No social life here, all of his friends are other freight dogs he runs into at the end of various legs on a six-leg flight. The talk is always the same: Who is hiring, who do you know there, what kind of equipment do they fly.... Sleep will come after he fills out another application for just one more airline which might be hiring... just one more and maybe he can get the right seat in a Beech 1900, a SAAB, a Dash whatever... sleep, dream about those gold stripes, dream about the heavy iron... but it will start all over again that night, and he better be sure his copilot is along if he wants to make the big time.

 

[John J]

Speed;

Thank you for the post. Having flown as copilot years ago in airplanes with radials. I really appreciate your post. It was my job to load, unload, do the W&B fuel requirements, get the weather, prefight, water, coffee and food for the skipper(He liked his coffee real hot) and me for the 7 leg flight. We would start at ten and get home by 7 the next morning. The thunderstorms and gosh knows what else seem to never end. It sure was a great education as a young commercial pilot. Your post brings back some great memories of my early flying adventures.

John J