When is it 135 vs. 91?

[dans2992]

Ok, so assume a pilot has their commercial cert, 2nd Class medical, etc.

If the pilot says to pax (or a company) "ok, here cut a check to this FBO for the plane rental" (where the pilot usually rents from) and the pilot flies the passengers to their destination and back - is this considered part 91 because the passengers are "providing" the aircraft, or is it 135 because he pilot has somewhat "arranged" things?

I've also heard of folks who have, for example, a King Air, let people rent it then give them a list of possible "suggested" pilots that the customer can contact and make separate arrangements for pilot services. All this is done under part 91.

This seems to be walking the fine line of 135 ops. Are arrangements like this legal?

(Not "can you get away with it" but is it legal if ramp checked or investigated?)

 

[poadeleted20]

If the pilot says to pax (or a company) "ok, here cut a check to this FBO for the plane rental" (where the pilot usually rents from) and the pilot flies the passengers to their destination and back - is this considered part 91 because the passengers are "providing" the aircraft, or is it 135 because he pilot has somewhat "arranged" things?

It all depends on the paperwork.

If the pilot is operating on his own, it's 135 because the pilot entirely ("not somewhat") arranged things and is providing both the airplane and the pilot services. The fact that someone else wrote the check to pay the FBO won't change the fact that all the paperwork is in the pilot's name. IOW, the FAA will hear this duck quacking a mile away.

If the pilot is an employee of the XYZ corporation, and the arrangements are made through the company with all the paper work including the airplane rental agreement between the FBO and XYZ (not the pilot), and the payment is made by XYZ corporate check or XYZ company credit card, it's just another Part 91 corporate flight operation. IOW, the duck is n now swimming quietly on the pond.

I've also heard of folks who have, for example, a King Air, let people rent it then give them a list of possible "suggested" pilots that the customer can contact and make separate arrangements for pilot services. All this is done under part 91.

Not done legally under Part 91 unless the parties renting the plane are free to choose any pilot they want. Otherwise, the same party is providing the airplane and telling the passengers who can fly the plane, and that's Part 135.

 

[dans2992]

Hmm, ok, so assuming I had a commercial and I get the company I work for to do all the paperwork with an FBO (ie, rental agreement, paperwork, etc) and they cut a company check to the FBO for the rental, I could legitimately fly company personnel around under Part 91, right?

The only sticking point is that since the company is not an individual, the FBO would be checking out the pilot "personally" in the plane. Is that an issue?

 

[dans2992]

In the King Air example, I think they were just giving them the list "as a courtesy" and probably didn't dictate they _had_ to use someone on their list.

Of course, being non-aviation people, the customers probably just said "ok, whatever, I don't know any pilots so I'll just run through this list"

Still legal?

 

[poadeleted20]

Hmm, ok, so assuming I had a commercial and I get the company I work for to do all the paperwork with an FBO (ie, rental agreement, paperwork, etc) and they cut a company check to the FBO for the rental, I could legitimately fly company personnel around under Part 91, right?

Right -- company pilot flying the company plane (owned, leased, or rented).

The only sticking point is that since the company is not an individual, the FBO would be checking out the pilot "personally" in the plane. Is that an issue?

Not as long as the rental paperwork doesn't say the pilot is renting the plane, and the FBO isn't selecting or recommending the pilot, just approving him/her after the company makes the choice.

 

[poadeleted20]

In the King Air example, I think they were just giving them the list "as a courtesy" and probably didn't dictate they _had_ to use someone on their list. Of course, being non-aviation people, the customers probably just said "ok, whatever, I don't know any pilots so I'll just run through this list"

If the FBO providing the plane also provides a list of "recommended" or "suggested" or "approved" or anything-else-like-that pilots, the FAA is almost certain to say the FBO is running a charter operation and needs a 135 certificate.