what's up with Phoenix Deer Valley airport?

[olasek]

Isn't it a sign of our times?

NO ILS approach at this big GA airport, in fact the second busiest GA airport in the US. Nothing but GPS approaches, no VORs, no NDBs, no LOCs. They do have an GPS-LPV aproach that will get you to about 375 ft AGL but even my small local HWD airport has an LPV that goes down to about 300 (plus it has LOC). But at this super busy Deer Valley airport with 2 runways (one almost 9000 ft long) - NO ILS. What's up? I wonder now - did this airport ever have and ILS? Is there any construction going on?

I started checking some other prominent GA airports - for example Florida's Lakeland, fairly busy but nowhere near as busy as KDVT has a much richer selection of approaches.

I found it a bit odd, what do you think? Or am I missing something?

 

[Clark1961]

How often does Phoenix see IMC?

This study http://www.azdot.gov/aviation/library/MP_PDF/DVT_MP_02.pdf sez about 0.2% which is less than a day. I'm thinkin' any other IAPs aren't justified.

 

[Lawreston]

"Dear(yeah-spelling incorrect) Valley People: If you move some of that traffic I'll land this birdie."

HR

 

[gprellwitz]

I've flown out of there. As Dakota said, how often do the need something to ILS mins, especially where it is not significantly above or below that.

 

[SkyHog]

Most people based at KDVT just do their ILS practice at Prescott. Its not that far away.

 

[olasek]

This study http://www.azdot.gov/aviation/library/MP_PDF/DVT_MP_02.pdf sez about 0.2% which is less than a day. I'm thinkin' any other IAPs aren't justified.

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing weather statistics for the Phoenix area.

On the other hand before the dawn of GPS they must have had other approaches. Whatever approaches they had are no more so this in itself is a sign of our times.

 

[Palmpilot]

Makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing weather statistics for the Phoenix area.

On the other hand before the dawn of GPS they must have had other approaches. Whatever approaches they had are no more so this in itself is a sign of our times.

From my visits to my brother I have gotten the impression that low ceilings are extremely rare in the Phoenix area, so it's possible that vectors for a visual approach could have been the norm, with approaches to other airports as a backup.

 

[sba55]

ILS approaches are incredibly expensive to install and _maintain_. I don't know the exact number, but I wouldn't be surprised if installation was multiple millions and maintenance a couple $100Ks/year. It's hard to justify that if there is only 1 IMC day per year....

LPV does seem like the logical alternative. The minimums are higher because of the terrain...

 

[olasek]

Just for the heck of it I checked some GA airport in Tucson (KRYN), it is controlled but its size and traffic is nowhere near what it is at Deer Valley and to my surprise it does have ILS. I would imagine that Tucson area has the same if not even better weather than Phoenix. Perhaps there are also other aspects - like local management that plays a part.

 

[lurker]

Case Grande (KCGZ), some 30 miles south of phoenix, also has an ILS. Many PHX area pilots use it for IFR training. As previous posters have mentioned, if the ceilings in the are are low enough to require the ILS, then the weather is probably too bad to be flying a light aircraft.

 

[Pilawt]

There are hills both east and west of KDVT -- even if there were an ILS in place I'd venture that minima wouldn't be any lower than what's there now.

 

[olasek]

then the weather is probably too bad to be flying a light aircraft.

Except that it hardly applies to Deer Valley - lots of very expensive and heavy aluminum over there. Again, I never questioned the point about the weather but what baffles me that this mega airport doesn't have any ILS/LOC yet some weaklings in the area do. Equipage for GPS approaches in corporate jets is not common place yet, specially if you take a jet that is say 10-20 years old and there are lots of them around.

 

[bbchien]

I hope KDVT has an ASN volunteer. It's prime territory for Real Estate Development when the buck start flying again.....

 

[Everskyward]

Equipage for GPS approaches in corporate jets is not common place yet,

It isn't?

specially if you take a jet that is say 10-20 years old and there are lots of them around.

I flew corporate jets which were in the 25-year-old range and every one of them had IFR certified GPSs. Were they modern and user-friendly? Not so much so.

 

[gprellwitz]

I hope KDVT has an ASN volunteer. It's prime territory for Real Estate Development when the buck start flying again.....

ARTHUR ROSEN is the volunteer.

 

[olasek]

I flew corporate jets which were in the 25-year-old range and every one of them had IFR certified GPSs

Were they approach certified? Just as an example:Jetstream 4100 is not exactly a corporate jet but it is far from obsolete construction (glass, etc), its FMS-GPS can only be used enroute.

 

[Everskyward]

Were they approach certified?

Yes, they were approach certified.