What would you do?

Fly it 'till it breaks or bust the nut and just do it now?


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Bill

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Fly it 'till it breaks, then upgrade, or bust the nut now and just do it?

Our 201 has two Collins navcoms (251/351 units), and an Apollo GX50 GPS, and we originally were going to pull the old audio panel, GX50, ADF, and one Collins, put in a new 430w and PS Engingeering PMA8000, and pull and/or re-arrange some other things, and that was going to set us back $13-14k.

But, we started to think, what added functionality are we getting for our $14k? Really, just precision GPS approaches. The GX50 is still supported by Garmin, and is an IFR certified installation, so it is good for IFR enroute and non-p GPS apps. Our home base to be has no apps right now, but KCHA 9nm down the road has two ILS's, VOR, and NDB apps, in addition to non-p GPS apps. So, we're figuring, $14k is a pretty high price for getting WAAS capability and a cool looking panel. BTW, we will be augmenting the strikefinder with a new 496 for XM weather and backup GPS capability regardless of how we go on the panel.

So, we're thinking, fly it 'till something breaks, then upgrade. Keep that $14k in the pocket for that dreaded 1st annual. Thoughts?
 
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save your money bill. the plane has what you need.
 
I certainly have no qualifications to say either way, but that plan seems to make sense. Especially in view of the fact that it's a new (too you) airplane and maintenence will be an unknown quantity, at least for a while. Keeping a larger reserve could end up being a wise move.
 
if you have the capability you need now then upgrading does not buy you anything but some FBO briefing brags about how you have a cool GPS. That seems a bit expensive to me. I have an older GPS, KLN90B, and it does everything I need it to do and more. I think about the 430 but until the current GPS is no longer supported I don't see the need.
 
Hey, its not my money! Go for it!
 
I would wait until after that first annual. It is working now and you might discover something else that needs attention in the mean time.
 
Wait until you need to upgrade. By then, as the world revolves, better options will be available and you won't have to kick yourself for buying just before the sooper-dooper thingabob was announced.
 
Might as well wait, you might find something else that needs the funds more.
 
Wait until you need to upgrade. By then, as the world revolves, better options will be available and you won't have to kick yourself for buying just before the sooper-dooper thingabob was announced.

That will happen anyway, regardless of when he upgrades. :D
 
As I recall, there are still some limitations on the new 430W that they're planning to eliminate in the future. Save your money now, unless you just can't live with the current panel (e.g. it's horribly non-standard.)
 
Save the money for the first annual, do it right, and then you should have cheaper annuals for a while.

LPV won't buy you that much, relatively speaking.
 
I would wait till after the first annual, but after the first one and you got it paid off, I would look into upgrading.
 
And at a cheaper price than it is now :yes:
Yeah, but aviation stuff never gets much cheaper. Even used 430's & 530's hold their value well (just like Macs :D ). I'm convinced technology goes down the price curve only when millions of units are made (i.e. cell phones, cameras, etc.) and that ain't ever gonna happen with panel-mount avionics. Buy what you need, when you need it.

I like my GX60. The display kicked the bucket last year and Garmin fixed it no problem for a flat 400 smackers.


-Rich
 
Well Bill, Ed Gs 201 has collins radios, no GPS and he flys it everywhere, My vote is Save the Money
Dave G.
 
Do it now - That way you won't have to deal with all the downtime after you've gotten used to having your own bird.
 
I say save the money for the first annual. After that, you'll be a better position to judge the true costs of the plane. There aren't a lot of precision GPS approaches out there right now, so the benefit is only incremental.
 
Fly it 'till it breaks, then upgrade, or bust the nut now and just do it?

Our 201 has two Collins navcoms (251/351 units), and an Apollo GX50 GPS, and we originally were going to pull the old audio panel, GX50, ADF, and one Collins, put in a new 430w and PS Engingeering PMA8000, and pull and/or re-arrange some other things, and that was going to set us back $13-14k.

But, we started to think, what added functionality are we getting for our $14k? Really, just precision GPS approaches. The GX50 is still supported by Garmin, and is an IFR certified installation, so it is good for IFR enroute and non-p GPS apps. Our home base to be has no apps right now, but KCHA 9nm down the road has two ILS's, VOR, and NDB apps, in addition to non-p GPS apps. So, we're figuring, $14k is a pretty high price for getting WAAS capability and a cool looking panel. BTW, we will be augmenting the strikefinder with a new 496 for XM weather and backup GPS capability regardless of how we go on the panel.

So, we're thinking, fly it 'till something breaks, then upgrade. Keep that $14k in the pocket for that dreaded 1st annual. Thoughts?

I suggest you find a way to take a couple trips in a plane with something close to what you were considering. The Garmin 430 has a lot to offer beyond WAAS approaches that your GX50 lacks IMO and you might find that those "luxuries" are worth the money or you might not. Certainly you can manage with what you have so there's no immediate need, but there are other things to consider as well. For one thing, those Collins radios are ancient technology and likely expensive to repair. They probably do have some value as slide in replacements for someone else hanging on to theirs today, but should one or two fail in the near future you'd lose the opportunity to get anything for them. Also, the value of your airplane would increase by about half your $14k investment and lacking such improvements it may become difficult to sell without lowering the price even more. So the eventual difference between upgrading now or not could be as little as $5-6K and if you keep the plane for 5 years that's not much per year.

That said, if money is tight you would be wise to set a good chunk aside for the potential surprises that will inevitably come along. It would be awfully frustrating to spend $14k on avionics and end up not being able to fly the plane because you can't come up with the green for a several thousand dollar maintenance issue.
 
Bill, I bought my Cherokee 5 years ago and immediately dropped $11K upgrading the basic VFR panel (KX155+KT76A) to an IFR setup (GX60+KX155+Glideslope upgrade+Audio Panel+Transponder+Intercom). I love the setup, but I have been underwhelmed at the amount of IFR flying I actually do. It sounds like you have a decent setup already that is capable of doing the approaches at your nearby airport. I'd hang on to your money, especially if you haven't gone through your first annual.

Fly the plane for a year and then spend $$$ on what bugs you :)
 
I am not qualified in any sense (since I neither have a plane nor a PPASEL--yet;) ), but given others' experiences, I would encourage you to wait until you have paid off that first annual, since Murphy's Law dictates that it will almost bust your bank:( .

Clear skies!!

Jim
 
On a newly acquired airplane, nothing will cause an expensive engine glitch or airframe problem faster than a newly installed whizbang GPS or other panel toy.

-JD
 
On a newly acquired airplane, nothing will cause an expensive engine glitch or airframe problem faster than a newly installed whizbang GPS or other panel toy.

Funny, but probably true.
 
Bill, regarding the dreaded first annual ... it is my belief that the first annual should be the prebuy inspection. The dreaded first annual on my Pitts would have shocked me if I hadn't OK'd it before I owned the airplane. The work it needed was simply part of the purchase price, psychologically at least.
 
Well, to me it would depend on your financial position. If you do the install and then hit the dreaded $20,000 first annual, would it leave you guys in a bind? If so, then wait. Besides, things only get better and cheaper with time. If you're all in a good financial position and really want the new gear, do it.
 
Yeah, but aviation stuff never gets much cheaper. Even used 430's & 530's hold their value well (just like Macs :D ). I'm convinced technology goes down the price curve only when millions of units are made (i.e. cell phones, cameras, etc.) and that ain't ever gonna happen with panel-mount avionics. Buy what you need, when you need it.

I like my GX60. The display kicked the bucket last year and Garmin fixed it no problem for a flat 400 smackers.

I think that's right most of the time. But while the price may not fall much, the features tend to increase pretty dramatically over time.

Honestly, that's sometimes true in other areas as well. Computers have "fallen" in price for quite a while now, and yet for some reason the one that I want always comes out to around $1400. :)
 
Bill, As an earlier poster said, "it's not my money I'm spending." With that in mind I'll point out that a 430 is a whole lot more than WAAS. Many (most?) users don't use 10% of its features, many of which can be very useful.

I'd say if initially you're gonna stay close to home, do a lot of practice approaches and $200 hamburgers; then keep what you've got for awhile. OTOH if you're going to start doing long cross countries, then do the UG now. But whenever you get the 430, really spend the time to learn it. Then you'll get your money's worth.
 
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