What to write?

[AuntPeggy]

Scenario: Sweet little old lady contacted pilot group who meet at a variety of airports on weekends for lunch and just get together. She would like to ride along and is willing to pay her share. We give her a ride and she picks up the lunch check, which is OK because it pretty much covers her share of the expenses. She is fun and excited about the chance to fly--had been her dream since a child to fly, but she was too short for the airlines as a stewardess and life got in the way of taking flying lessons. Now she has had a brain injury and lengthy coma that she is overcoming and wants to indulge her life-long dream while she still can. At the moment, she is just mildly simple. When she is in the plane, she can hardly contain herself and sit still enough and sit straight enough to put her seatbelt on properly. When refuelling, she tried to pay the entire cost with a $100 bill. No. She was told the regulations about sharing expenses. After the flight ended and she was dropped off, the $100 bill showed up in the flight bag that had sat on the seat next to her. We have decided to send the change to her and not to take her flying again because she didn't accept the authority of PIC and she put our licenses in jeopardy.

The problem: What to say in the letter that accompanies the change. What to say and whether to say it on the message board (not POA) used by the pilot's group.

How would you word it?

 

[dmccormack]

Scenario: Sweet little old lady contacted pilot group who meet at a variety of airports on weekends for lunch and just get together. She would like to ride along and is willing to pay her share. We give her a ride and she picks up the lunch check, which is OK because it pretty much covers her share of the expenses. She is fun and excited about the chance to fly--had been her dream since a child to fly, but she was too short for the airlines as a stewardess and life got in the way of taking flying lessons. Now she has had a brain injury and lengthy coma that she is overcoming and wants to indulge her life-long dream while she still can. At the moment, she is just mildly simple. When she is in the plane, she can hardly contain herself and sit still enough and sit straight enough to put her seatbelt on properly. When refuelling, she tried to pay the entire cost with a $100 bill. No. She was told the regulations about sharing expenses. After the flight ended and she was dropped off, the $100 bill showed up in the flight bag that had sat on the seat next to her. We have decided to send the change to her and not to take her flying again because she didn't accept the authority of PIC and she put our licenses in jeopardy.

The problem: What to say in the letter that accompanies the change. What to say and whether to say it on the message board (not POA) used by the pilot's group.

How would you word it?

No letter. Donate the money above and beyond the shared cost to a Flight Charity (Wings for Hope, etc).

No one is going to bust somebody for this unless it's made into a big deal (and I'm sure somebody will make it a big deal if you let them).

 

[Skip Miller]

How would you word it?

Nothing prevents anyone from giving anyone else a gift.

I would write a letter reminding her of the rules and that you are unable to accept the money as reimbursement for the flight. But since gifts are allowed, you intend to give the money in her name to a young student pilot (preferably a female) so that he/she can further his/her dream of flight.

She's trying to do something nice here; don't rain on her parade.

-Skip

 

[poadeleted20]

I've still got a check sitting on my desk that I was given over a year ago by a person involved in the dog rescue world after I delivered a couple of rescued Aussies. I just couldn't talk her out of giving it to me, but I've never cashed it. My only concern in this case is that if she's really gone "simple" since the medical event, she may not realize exactly what she's doing with her money. I'd suggest returning the money to her caregiver with the explanation that FAA rules prevent you from accepting it.

 

[TMetzinger]

Skip's advice is good. Since it sounds like both you and the lady would tell the same story, and you've taken care of the "compensation" thing, I wouldn't worry about enforcement.

Send her a letter saying how much you enjoyed taking her flying, and that the regs don't allow you to accept any more than the pro-rata share of the flight expenses without putting your certificate in jeopardy, so you've donated the money to a charity as a way of paying her generosity forward.

And if she flies again, do the same thing.

Edit: Ron's advice is even better - I missed the "simple" part. Contact her caregiver first. If she's still legally competent, then donate the money. If not, return it to her caregiver with thanks and an explanation.

 

[AuntPeggy]

She does not have a caregiver. She is living independently. She has done a great job of learning to talk and walk again, but dealing with her is kind of like dealing with a beautiful child.

Thanks for the ideas. She continues to leave the group messages asking for a ride and I don't want to rain on her parade and I don't want to send her away.

 

[gibbons]

If you don't mind flying with her again then donate the money to a charity and leave it at that.

You did a nice thing. Don't over think it.

 

[CJones]

Ditto on the donating the money to charity. If no caregiver is around, and she is able to get to-and-from the airport, is able to ASK for rides, then she should be darn well able to blow her money however the heck she wants. I hate seeing elderly people being treated like 2 year olds by their caretakers - they've lived a good long life being responsible and careful with money, let them indulge however the heck they want.

 

[Missa]

I really like donating the money to a female flight student, it sounds like a great way to make her dream come true for someone else.

 

[poadeleted20]

Be careful on that "donating to charity" bit. That would put the flight under 91.146, and there's a lot of paperwork there which hasn't been done. To keep it simple and squeaky clean, just give the money back and say, "Thanks for the kind gesture, but we simply can't accept it -- silly FAA rules, and all that."

 

[EdFred]

"What $100 ?"

 

[Areeda]

I think you've already gotten enough good advice, but I can't help myself, I'll add some worthless nuggets.

If you're willing to fly with her again, have the talk with her and use the change for the next flight. If she can't understand you have rules you must follow, well that's another problem.

Joe

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Scenario: Sweet little old lady contacted pilot group who meet at a variety of airports on weekends for lunch and just get together. She would like to ride along and is willing to pay her share. We give her a ride and she picks up the lunch check, which is OK because it pretty much covers her share of the expenses. She is fun and excited about the chance to fly--had been her dream since a child to fly, but she was too short for the airlines as a stewardess and life got in the way of taking flying lessons. Now she has had a brain injury and lengthy coma that she is overcoming and wants to indulge her life-long dream while she still can. At the moment, she is just mildly simple. When she is in the plane, she can hardly contain herself and sit still enough and sit straight enough to put her seatbelt on properly. When refuelling, she tried to pay the entire cost with a $100 bill. No. She was told the regulations about sharing expenses. After the flight ended and she was dropped off, the $100 bill showed up in the flight bag that had sat on the seat next to her. We have decided to send the change to her and not to take her flying again because she didn't accept the authority of PIC and she put our licenses in jeopardy.

The problem: What to say in the letter that accompanies the change. What to say and whether to say it on the message board (not POA) used by the pilot's group.

How would you word it?

Peggy,

What Chip said (and Ed too). What she was trying to do was express her appreciation for what you did for her. Did she do anything that affected the safety of flight? (Doesn't sound like it, from what you've written.) Then there's no reason not to take her flying again.

If *you* don't take her flying again, don't prevent others from doing so! We all should be so lucky as to bring someone such joy. You won't get in trouble, as cash is untraceable. I commend you for your honesty, but I think that the very best possible resolution to this scenario is that you take the change and give it to the Ninety-Nines for their scholarship fund... And then tell her what you did, and take her flying as much as possible. She's one of us, you know.

In my view, the intent of regulations is more important than the words themselves. The intent of the compensation-or-hire regulations is to keep people from operating unlicensed charter businesses, or from making money as a pilot when they do not have a commercial certificate. You are not breaking the intent of the regulations if you a) verbally refuse the money, and b) do not keep that portion of the money that is above and beyond her share of the expenses; instead donating them either in the other woman's name or anonymously to a charity (so that you can't get any tax breaks from donating what is effectively her money).

Were it me, I'd first tell her that I cannot accept any more than half the expenses, and that if she foists them upon me like that, I'll be donating them to charity. Then, I'd suggest that if she enjoys it that much, maybe she could send the extra money to the Ninety-Nines herself. She may even get the bright idea to put them in her will so that someday, another spirited young lady WILL get the chance to be a pilot herself, thanks to a scholarship in this woman's name.

Happiness and generosity are wonderful things. Spread them around, don't kill them under the black and white of regulations, especially when you are not violating the intent of those regulations.

 

[gprellwitz]

From a moral standpoint, I whole-heartedly second Kent's suggestion of donating the money to the Ninety-Nines. I just don't have the legal acumen to comment on it from that standpoint.

 

[Henning]

Scenario: Sweet little old lady contacted pilot group who meet at a variety of airports on weekends for lunch and just get together. She would like to ride along and is willing to pay her share. We give her a ride and she picks up the lunch check, which is OK because it pretty much covers her share of the expenses. She is fun and excited about the chance to fly--had been her dream since a child to fly, but she was too short for the airlines as a stewardess and life got in the way of taking flying lessons. Now she has had a brain injury and lengthy coma that she is overcoming and wants to indulge her life-long dream while she still can. At the moment, she is just mildly simple. When she is in the plane, she can hardly contain herself and sit still enough and sit straight enough to put her seatbelt on properly. When refuelling, she tried to pay the entire cost with a $100 bill. No. She was told the regulations about sharing expenses. After the flight ended and she was dropped off, the $100 bill showed up in the flight bag that had sat on the seat next to her. We have decided to send the change to her and not to take her flying again because she didn't accept the authority of PIC and she put our licenses in jeopardy.

The problem: What to say in the letter that accompanies the change. What to say and whether to say it on the message board (not POA) used by the pilot's group.

How would you word it?

I'd freakin well think twice about sending it. Honestly, she did nothing to jeopardize your licenses or undermine PIC authority. I mean if you don't like flying with her for another reason, that's different, but for that reason, nope, I'd take her flying still if she enjoyed it that much.

 

[Aztec Driver]

I'd freakin well think twice about sending it. Honestly, she did nothing to jeopardize your licenses or undermine PIC authority. I mean if you don't like flying with her for another reason, that's different, but for that reason, nope, I'd take her flying still if she enjoyed it that much.

Agreed, and some people feel the need to "tip" those that do things for them. Don't make them feel bad just for the sake of those "black and white" regulations. $100 pays very little in the aviation world, so use it or donate it, or whatever. You have already told her that you can't accept it, but she still has the right to give it to you (collectively). At this point, I very seriously doubt that, unless she complains about the flight and says she paid $100 for that flight, not even the feds are going to consider it "compensation."

Like others said, don't overthink it. Send a "thank you for the gift" card and use it for expenses on her next flight.

 

[wabower]

As the grandfather of a severely impaired child, I help support Challenge Air, a charitable organization that provides airplane rides and related experiences to those who would otherwise not be able to achieve them.

Like your friend, they are totally captivated by the experience. I'm sure the organization would gladly accept any contributions you might wish to make. PM if interested in details.

 

[Geico266]

If you don't mind flying with her again then donate the money to a charity and leave it at that.

You did a nice thing. Don't over think it.

Ditto for me. You made her one happy lady. Don't ruin her fun, expand on it.

I know rules are rules, (here comes the world according to Geico ) but IMHO the "cost sharing rules" are there to stop non commercial pilots from charging for flights on a regular basis. If someone wants to give you a one time gift for a flight just take it and be gracous about it. Use the money as you see fit.

 

[AdamZ]

I'm with Henning on this one Peg at least as far as giving her rides. She was only trying to be nice. No way did she jeopardize your ticket or disregard your PIC authority. Unless I undertood you wrong I hear that her fidgeting in the plane was just excitement and not a danger. If it was a danger then don't take her again but thats not what I hear. I'd reconsider not taking her again.

 

[gonvrtd]

"What $100 ?"

My thought exaclty. Doesn't mean you should keep it but donate it like others suggested and don't worry about it. If you're looking for an excuse to not take this woman flying again I don't think this is it. If it isn't safe to have her in your airplane that would be a better justification but don't punish her for what she thinks is the right thing to do. Good luck.

 

[Everskyward]

Some older people get happiness and pride out of being able to contribute something financially. Don't take that away from her. I agree with most people, just donate it to charity.

 

[silver-eagle]

Ron can correct me if I'm wrong but you didn't ask for a fee, you didn't charge for a ride, and you didn't expect anything for it, so you've technically complied with the FAA. That you have discovered anything in your flight bag or wallet has nothing to do with it. You can assume she gave it to you but it could have been that nice husband of yours.
Don't worry about it. Do with it what you like, but please don't rain on her parade.

 

[Ken Ibold]

You know, the change could just turn up in her handbag after the flight so she found it when she got home, too.

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill, frankly.

Give her another ride, and say "thanks, but you paid for this one last time" and let it go.

 

[Flybob37]

Ron can correct me if I'm wrong but you didn't ask for a fee, you didn't charge for a ride, and you didn't expect anything for it, so you've technically complied with the FAA. That you have discovered anything in your flight bag or wallet has nothing to do with it. You can assume she gave it to you but it could have been that nice husband of yours.
Don't worry about it. Do with it what you like, but please don't rain on her parade.

Get her back into the air!

 

[poadeleted20]

Ron can correct me if I'm wrong but you didn't ask for a fee, you didn't charge for a ride, and you didn't expect anything for it, so you've technically complied with the FAA.

I don't think the FAA would see it that way if this somehow came to their attention. However, since it is most unlikely to come to their attention, it is primarily a matter of conscience.

 

[gismo]

I don't think the FAA would see it that way if this somehow came to their attention. However, since it is most unlikely to come to their attention, it is primarily a matter of conscience.

I don't see how accepting a gift given with no strings or pre-arranged offer of a flight for a price constitutes "holding out". Surely the FARs don't prohibit any past or future passenger from making a gift to a pilot. I just don't find any quid pro quo here.

Now if a pilot told someone that they would agree to take that someone flying if the person would make a "gift, wink wink" afterwards of $100 then the pilot would standing on FAA quicksand but that's clearly not the case here.

 

[poadeleted20]

I don't see how accepting a gift given with no strings or pre-arranged offer of a flight for a price constitutes "holding out".

The issue is not holding out -- there's no question of that in this case. The issue is air transportation in exchange for compensation.

Surely the FARs don't prohibit any past or future passenger from making a gift to a pilot. I just don't find any quid pro quo here.

I'm just trying to look at it as the FAA would. But again, as long as she doesn't say anything to anyone about it, I see no trouble.

Now if a pilot told someone that they would agree to take that someone flying if the person would make a "gift, wink wink" afterwards of $100 then the pilot would standing on FAA quicksand...

Obviously, yes.

 

[Ted]

Y'all are over thinking this. You're going to hurt her feelings by returning the money, and she is just trying to enjoy flying and express her gratitude. Nobody's going to care. Do what you want with the money as you see fit, but personally I would save it to fund an Angel Flight.

This is no big deal. Move along people, nothing to see here.

 

[John Baker]

I don't believe any regulations have been broken at all. The PIC clearly told the lady that she could not pay anything beyond her pro-rated share. The ride was completed, the lady was dropped off at her home and everything has been concluded properly and according to regulation.

A flight bag that was located in a position that the lady in question had access to. A hundred dollar bill was found in the bag, after the lady had been dropped off.

The Assumption is now made that the lady had placed that one hundred dollar bill in the bag. That is all it is, an assumption. It has nothing to do with the ride, nor has it anything to do with the integrity of the PIC. It is nothing but a bill being found in a bag, that more than one person had access to.

The very act of the PIC going public with this dilemma is reasonable proof that no chicanery is involved in her actions.

My advise would be to not say a word to the lady at all. She was clearly told not to pay money for the ride. Perhaps if her alleged gift goes unrecognized, she will think twice before doing it again.

Take the hundred dollar bill and fold it into a little paper airplane. Next time you are flying over a poorer section of town, toss it overboard, make someones day.

John