What is an "owner assisted" annual

Tony_Scarpelli

Tony_Scarpelli

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Tony_Scarpelli
A thread with my old friend Tom reminds me of a old thread on another site.

We all have heard the term possibly used the term but what does it mean?
 
It means, I pull the panels and do whatever my A&P feels comfortable with me doing or comfortable teaching me to do (install new baffling, change the oil, replace the air filter etc..). Before I close anything up, he inspects it. When I leave, he goes over it again and doesn't tell me because he doesn't want to offend me :) For my owner assisted annuals, I probably used up more of the IAs time than had he done it himself.
 
It means exactly what it says, very broadly defined that an owner can assist with some of the labor aspects of the annual inspection and in so doing defer some of the expenses. The level of participation depends on the owner's capabilities and skills as well as the relationship he has with the inspector. In theory, the only thing the owner can not do is the actual inspection.
 
There really isn't any FAA approved definition, but to me it is the inspection required in 91.405 that the owner is allowed by the inspector to assist in the labor of the inspection.

Owners and operators are allowed under 43-A para (c) to do much of the labor that encompasses much of the inspection, and some repairs of the minor discrepancies found.
 
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Silvaire said:
It means exactly what it says, very broadly defined that an owner can assist with some of the labor aspects of the annual inspection and in so doing defer some of the expenses.
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MY annual inspections cost the same whither you help or not.

But you do save a lot on repairs
 
Tom-D said:
There really isn't any FAA approved definition, but to me it is the inspection required in 91.405 that the owner is allowed by the inspector to assist in the labor of the inspection.

Owners and operators are allowed under 43-A para (c) to do much of the labor that encompasses much of the inspection, and some repairs of the minor discrepancies found.
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My AI only let me hand him things. I did't hardly touch the plane. Ha,ha....
 
Ok I am exaggerating. He let me clean out the fuel cell cavity; clean the fuel sending unit, let me take an inspection plate or two off; removed some hoses when we had to replace all the hoses for the turbo 5 year replacement AD.

But mostly I just handed him stuff.
 
Tom-D said:
MY annual inspections cost the same whither you help or not.

But you do save a lot on repairs
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Tom, you are one of the few AI's I would just drop off the plane and have you call me when its done.

Not only are you knowledgeable, experienced, honorable and honest but you take pride in your work.

I sometimes post statements weary of mechanics..... this is because I do not feel that you are the norm but an exception.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
Tom, you are one of the few AI's I would just drop off the plane and have you call me when its done. .
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I don't do that..

I want you involved in the inspection.

A well informed pilot owner is a safer pilot owner.
 
Tom-D said:
MY annual inspections cost the same whither you help or not.
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Not me Tom, if I can show up in a Hawaiian shirt with clipboard, flashlight and mirror you're going to pay a lot less than if I have to throw my Tyvek suit in the dumpster at the end of the day
 
Silvaire said:
Not me Tom, if I can show up in a Hawaiian shirt with clipboard, flashlight and mirror you're going to pay a lot less than if I have to throw my Tyvek suit in the dumpster at the end of the day
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I have no idea what you are talking about.

My customers attitude is a big part if they are or not.
 
Tyvek suit

Tyvek2.jpg
 
It means I do all the grunt work and my mechanic still gets the same pay :wink2: Honestly, I was ok with that because I got to learn a lot and do some trouble shooting. I think the owner assisted annual saved me $$$ there.
 
Tom-D said:
If your aircraft is that toxic don't bring it around here.
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Or don't expect to get the inspection done for the same price as me showing up in a Hawaiian shirt.
 
Silvaire said:
Or don't expect to get the inspection done for the same price as me showing up in a Hawaiian shirt.
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Why should I care what you wear while I do the inspection?

the price of my inspections don't change as often as your shirt.
 
Tom, the topic of this thread is "owner assisted annual" As far as the inspection part goes, there can be no "owner assist", the IA must do the inspecting.

So are you saying that you will charge the same if you arrive at an aircraft that has been completely prepped for the inspection (opened up and clean) as opposed to one where you need to remove cowling, seats, carpets, panels etc?

Because if that is true, what incentive does the owner have to do any assisting? :dunno:
 
Silvaire said:
Tom, the topic of this thread is "owner assisted annual" As far as the inspection part goes, there can be no "owner assist", the IA must do the inspecting.

So are you saying that you will charge the same if you arrive at an aircraft that has been completely prepped for the inspection (opened up and clean) as opposed to one where you need to remove cowling, seats, carpets, panels etc?

Because if that is true, what incentive does the owner have to do any assisting? :dunno:
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None on the inspection, because as you say, they can't help. But the repairs ??
Getting the inspection over quickly, by having the aircraft ready to be inspected, yes that helps. but it makes no difference to me if you do or not.
 
App D says before the inspection you have to open up the access panels and thoroughly clean the aircraft and engine. That can take me the better part of the day.

There's also a few things that generally happen at annual time that are not part of the inspection such as:

Retrieving the ELT for it's annual test (doesn't necessarily have to be done at the same time but often is).
Doing some periodic maintenance that's due like repacking wheel bearings, etc...
Helping get the plane jacked.

Once the IA has done the inspection, any discrepancies can be resolved by anybody authorized to do the work, a regular A&P or even in some cases, the owner-pilot.
 
Really should not clean the airplane before inspection. Inspector should see all the smoking rivets and oil leaks.

Clean after the inspection!
 
kgruber said:
Really should not clean the airplane before inspection. Inspector should see all the smoking rivets and oil leaks.

Clean after the inspection!
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Well you better bring that up with the FAA because the FAA requires it to be cleaned by the person doing the annual or 100 hour PRIOR to the inspection.
 
flyingron said:
Well you better bring that up with the FAA because the FAA requires it to be cleaned by the person doing the annual or 100 hour PRIOR to the inspection.
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Where does it say "Prior" ?

(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
 
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(a) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that inspection, remove or open all necessary inspection plates, access doors, fairing, and cowling. He shall thoroughly clean the aircraft and aircraft engine.
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and this is a classic example of how the rules as written will be interpreted by certain overzealous people with nothing better to do who will then claim that the airplane and engine MUST BE CLEANED BY THE PERSON DOING THE INSPECTION.

Sometimes when reading these regulations a tiny bit of common sense is called for.
 
What does the word "BEFORE" mean to you?
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
A thread with my old friend Tom reminds me of a old thread on another site.

We all have heard the term possibly used the term but what does it mean?
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It's whatever the A&P/IA will let you do.
 
Me and an IA were partners in a plane. We did our annuals together. For the most part we divvy up duties. I would repack wheel bearings, reline the brakes, check compression etc. while he did the "inspection". It really boils down to the comfort level the IA has with the other person(s).
 
flyingron said:
What does the word "BEFORE" mean to you?
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What does this mean to you?

(c) Annual and 100-hour inspections. (1) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall use a checklist while performing the inspection. The checklist may be of the person's own design, one provided by the manufacturer of the equipment being inspected or one obtained from another source. This checklist must include the scope and detail of the items contained in appendix D to this part and paragraph (b) of this section.

(2) Each person approving a reciprocating-engine-powered aircraft for return to service after an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that approval, run the aircraft engine or engines to determine satisfactory performance in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations of—

(i) Power output (static and idle r.p.m.);

(ii) Magnetos;

(iii) Fuel and oil pressure; and

(iv) Cylinder and oil temperature.

The only stipulation as to the order of occurrence is to run the engine after the inspection.

otherwise I can arrange my check list to any order I please.
 
Tom-D said:
What does this mean to you?

(c) Annual and 100-hour inspections. (1) Each person performing an annual or 100-hour inspection shall use a checklist while performing the inspection. The checklist may be of the person's own design, one provided by the manufacturer of the equipment being inspected or one obtained from another source. This checklist must include the scope and detail of the items contained in appendix D to this part and paragraph (b) of this section.

(2) Each person approving a reciprocating-engine-powered aircraft for return to service after an annual or 100-hour inspection shall, before that approval, run the aircraft engine or engines to determine satisfactory performance in accordance with the manufacturer's recommendations of—

(i) Power output (static and idle r.p.m.);

(ii) Magnetos;

(iii) Fuel and oil pressure; and

(iv) Cylinder and oil temperature.

The only stipulation as to the order of occurrence is to run the engine after the inspection.

otherwise I can arrange my check list to any order I please.
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Many types have well-defined tasks & procedures to perform the tasks in the Service/Maintenance manuals. For example, the Inspection list and tasks are the entire Section III of the Service Manual. All the IAs I've dealt with either use it or their own which is a superset of the Piper list.
 
murphey said:
Many types have well-defined tasks & procedures to perform the tasks in the Service/Maintenance manuals. For example, the Inspection list and tasks are the entire Section III of the Service Manual. All the IAs I've dealt with either use it or their own which is a superset of the Piper list.
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As far as the regulations go, It's really up to the inspector during an annual.
 
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