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Discussion in 'Aerobatics' started by captvikki, Sep 17, 2008.
After her "incident" at Oshkosh.
This was from earlier this month, but is all I have heard lately.
I believe she has a court date in her future. Still plenty of time for negotiations, though, so we'll have to wait and see. Fear not, when there is some more concrete information it will spread (and mutate) quickly - lots of folks are interested.
Is your avatar taken inside the Flying Tent at OSH? Or maybe Lycoming's?
Yes, Sean Tucker is at my side. That is another thread I would like to start. Who is better Sean Tucker or Mike Goulian?
Feel free to do so!
Any update on this. I know I, of many people, would like to know if she's gotten her due punishment yet.
New Charge Brought Against Wagstaff In Oshkosh Incident
Tue, 28 Oct '08
It's not looking good for her. The thing will be pushed off as long as possible with any means possible to weaken the case against her. Sooner or later, there will likely be a conviction and her ticket is fried. That's pretty sad as she has been an influential icon to so many young girls and their parents who go to see her show.
I doubt her ticket would be completely fried...
I'd bet the feds will pull her ticket for a minimum of six months upon a DUI conviction and quite possibly as long as a year. Either way, that's going to hurt her scheduled appearances. Once that happens, her career is pretty much over.
Bottom line... if your job depends on an FAA certificate, tis a good idea to leave the booze alone for the duration and maybe a good full day before any flight. It's just not worth it. That's my wooden nickel's worth.
I'd say its worth more than a wooden nickel, but she was not flying drunk, she was driving drunk at a location with MASSIVE amounts of people. Bad move.
Drinking and driving is inexcusable.
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
A bit premature to come to that conclusion, Nick. We'll find out the truth someday, maybe, but we certainly don't know it yet.
A single conviction is not grounds for revoking her medical (and that's the "ticket" that's at risk here, not her pilot certificate). If (and that's a big IF) she is convicted of DUI, then she'll have to report it, along with whatever court-mandated sobriety program she attends, and if the FAA treats her like any other pilot who flies for a living, she'll be watched closely for a recurrence, but retain her medical.
Driving a GOLF CART on a closed runway and it was an OUI not a DUI. An OUI could be issued for just sitting on a golf cart that has the keys in it. The details have not come out and eveyone is just guessing the worst. Innocent until proven guilty.
Not likely. Once things get into the court system you have two sets of lawyers trying their best to present a distorted picture of what happened in order to win.
The essence of the adversary system at work. It beats hell out of the alternative, though, doesn't it?
Actually, I would expect that if she is convicted her FAA aerobatic waiver may be at risk too, but that's purely speculation on my part. I don't know what criteria they use for them. And I agree, the apparent tendency here to presume guilt is unwarranted.
I believe it was a Ford Mustang. Furthermore, it appears the state may have evidence to show she was driving on public roads on her way to the runway. Note that in Wisconsin, the arresting officer does not have to actually see you driving to make the arrest and for the state to get a conviction.
No. "OUI" is Wisconsin legalese for what most states call DUI. Check Wisconsin statute 346.63 for the details. If she gets anything other than a total acquittal on all charges, she's going to have to report this to the FAA under 61.15 within 60 days of the conviction, plea, or other motor vehicle action. As noted above, one strike is not normally enough to get your medical suspended, but it will effectively put you on probation with the FAA and usually requires completion of an alcohol abuse program.
BTW, the latest delay was reported by the Oshkosh Northwestern to have been because her attorney was involved in an accident and couldn't make her last court date.
may not matter that it was private property or not. In Illinois operating a vehicle ANYWHERE while intoxicated is a violation of the law. Makes no difference if it was off road on private property or not. The law still applies.
It happened in Wisconsin, not Illinois. Suggest you read the relevent statute (section 346.63) at http://www.legis.state.wi.us/statutes/Stat0346.pdf.
I know where it happened I was simply letting you know in some states private or public property makes no difference in the ability to be charged with DUIs
So, in Illinois I can't drink a beer while I mow the lawn? Wow. Velkum to Illinoiz, comrade.
Funny you should mention that. The law was written before I moved here but apparently what sparked the anywhere DUI law was that a drunk person on a lawmower ran over a kid and severly injured him. The incident occured on private property.
Ridiculous laws here in Michigan regarding what a "vehicle" consitutes. Even an innertube can be considered a vehicle. That's right, having a few brews while floating on a river can get you a OWI - and points/suspension of your license, and a report to the FAA. I played softball with 4 cops this summer, and when I heard that I was like "what?!?!?". They said yep, basically ANYTHING you sit, stand, lay, or ride on can be considered a vehicle. Even tubes, and winter sleds can be considered a vehicle and get you a OWI.
SO I can have a couple of brews go ride my bike on my property with no one but me and the cop, not endangering anyone and get a DUI....
Just when did we let go of sanity in this country? Why not just bring back Prohibition... that's really what MAD is trying to do and we are just letting them strip our rights away without any fight because it looks bad to oppose MAD.
And I found out that the Cops in PA (at least) get cash bounus for DUI arrests. What's up with that???? Are they out there arresting people who are an actual threat or are they just padding their pocket?
I am not sure if Michigan law applies to private property they way it does to public lands/roads. But yeah, drunk on a bicycle on the road/in a park gets you a OWI.
For the few who think I'm making an early judgment, I'm not. I'm all for the legal proceedings to run their course and let a judge or jury make the finding of fact.
But, if convicted I don't think it should be simply a probationary period by the FAA. Sorry but there have been too many cases where pilots have slid by. If your ticket means anything to you, stay away from the booze for the duration or a good 24 hours before flight. If that's judgmental, so be it. My ticket is not worth a couple beers or otherwise to enjoy just because I'm not flying in the next eight to twelve hours.
It's already too easy to keep driving after multiple DUIs. One shot is plenty when it comes to flying. Otherwise, where are the rest of your ADM skills being used?
Hang on - if you can't see any difference between:
Operating a golf cart/JD gator on what is essentially private property while possibly being under the influence (remember, no sobriety test was administered)
Operating a car after having a drink.
Operating a car while intoxicated.
Flying an airplane after alcohol use.
.... well, I just don't know what to say.
Operating a golf cart/JD gator on what is essentially private property while possibly being under the influence =can injure or kill yourself or others
Operating a car after having a drink =can injure or kill yourself or others
Operating a car while intoxicated =can injure or kill yourself or others
Flying an airplane after alcohol use =can injure or kill yourself or others
I imagine that's why the people's representatives in many (if not most) states couldn't see the difference either.
You can't beat someone on private property, commit fraud on private property, commit theft on private property, commit disorderly conduct on private property and be immune - why should you be able to operate a vehicle while drunk on private property?
This is academic of course, as Ron alluded no doubt the prosecutor in this case will ask the finder of fact to consider whether or not she was driving on public roadways before she was stopped.
In some cases, I legally can.
I'm going to steal from myself? WTF.
On MY property, if I am not harming anyone else - and since I live alone, and no one ever visits, who am I going to run into on my property? As long as it has 0 effect on anyone outside my property lines, I should be allowed to do anything I want with a legal substance. Me getting drunk, and riding a bicycle to my back property line is not going to kill anyone.
We are well on our way to a police state. Next up, I won't even be able to drink inside my own house.
Lots of things can injure or kill yourselves. If you're on your own PRIVATE property and not putting the general public at risk it is absolutely ridiculous IMO to be charged with any DUI / OUI charge.
If some stupid farmer wants to roll his truck in his field because he's driving around on his property drunk good for him.
Same for Ohio.
If another party entered your privately owned property, you may detain that person and disarm them. But, it stops there. You cannot retain any items that were on their person at the time you detained them. In some cases, that could include items that were just stolen from you.
However, if someone wants to drink and go off on their own property riding a three-wheeler, more power to them... as long as they are not carrying another person. Your liability suddenly jumped from only yourself to include the other person.
Wow - neither one of those arguments are even close to true.
It was a Mustang, first off, and OUI is DUI, in almost every state that has an OUI law.
The difference being that you can be "Operating" a myriad of vehicles, but "driving" implies a car.
Everyone will have to forgive me, I'm a bit sensitive to DUI, and I really have absolutely no respect for those that commit the crime. They endanger themselves, they endanger others, and for someone like Wagstaff to get a free ride from the public because of who she is disgusts me.
Worst yet - she refused to take the breathalyser ("Hey, that dumb cop'll never bust me if I don't blow!"), and she resisted arrest.
She sounds like a real classy lady.
edit: Sorry Missa, I see that Ron already posted essentially the same thing. I didn't mean to pile it on.
"driving" implies a Club
Man Nick, I can't wait until you get a OUI for sleeping in the back of your car. Or for just walking through the parking lot with your keys. Both can get you a OUI... but officer I was just going to get some more smokes... Don't care! Arrested and charged, and then intimidated into paying thousands in fines (extortion) and going on probation to avoid the possibility of Jail. What a fair and reasonable system we have.
I don't know what's going on with her legal problems, and I don't really care, but she was here in Colorado recently for a Wings Over the Rockies event.
It was a little too rich for my blood but I know a few people that went.
ok... My emphasis underlined.
Considering Nick was put in the hospital by a drunk driver, I doubt that Nick is going to be doing any of those things.