What are your thoughts on this article?

Nice hit piece. If the author had a clue to what he was writing about it might have been informative.

Just another low mark for so called " journalist".
 
Ryanb said:
Not sure if this has been addressed on here or not. What are your thoughts on the following article, do you think the NTSB reports are actually false?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...aft-carnage-unfit-for-flight-part-1/10405323/
Click to expand...

What has changed over the years is society's attitude toward accidents.

When I was growing up, if you slipped and fell down a flight of stairs, you were a clumsy idiot. If you ended up a quadraplegic, you were an unlucky clumsy idiot.

Nowadays, it is the stair manufacturer's fault, the property owner's fault, the designer of the handrail's fault, and probably the fault of the shoe repair shop that resoled the clumsy idiot's shoes. And they will all pay dearly.

So, now USA Today has picked up on this phenomenon.

There are no "accidents". Someone is to blame, and someone must pay.

Which is why a new POS Cezzna costs $300,000. :mad2:
 
Sometimes motors quit. That doesn't make pilots lose control of the airplane but it's an easy sell to a public. USA Today is in the business to sell papers.
 
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Very true, I just wish the general public did not think of GA the way they do, which is what articles like these do.
 
The airplane elevated briefly and plunged into a field
Click to expand...

Sounds like the author doesn't have a clue what he is talking about, just fear mongering to make his mortgage, but hey the US govt has been fear mongering for decades now with "terrorists" and they seem to get whatever they want, guess the trend is catching on.

Here the asshats twitter
https://mobile.twitter.com/bytomfrank

And here's what Flying Mag as to say about em'
http://www.flyingmag.com/blogs/fly-wire/usa-today-gets-f-aviation-reporting
 
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That is caused by our liability laws and the fact that it is to easy to file a suit. In the "modern world" if you file suit against someone and you lose, you automatically pay their attorneys fees and the court cost. Not so here.

We are our own worst enemies.


Jay Honeck said:
What has changed over the years is society's attitude toward accidents.

When I was growing up, if you slipped and fell down a flight of stairs, you were a clumsy idiot. If you ended up a quadraplegic, you were an unlucky clumsy idiot.

Nowadays, it is the stair manufacturer's fault, the property owner's fault, the designer of the handrail's fault, and probably the fault of the shoe repair shop that resoled the clumsy idiot's shoes. And they will all pay dearly.

So, now USA Today has picked up on this phenomenon.

There are no "accidents". Someone is to blame, and someone must pay.

Which is why a new POS Cezzna costs $300,000. :mad2:
Click to expand...
 
I don't see what the fuss is all about.
Smart people know that most journalists are nothing but bumbling fumbling idiots with no real knowledge, of even their native language.
This article should NOT be a surprise to us smart people (yes, I consider us pilots smart people, please correct me if I'm wrong :D ).

The world is full of idiots trying to make money off of idiots (example: printing sensationalist c*ap in newspapers). Get used to it. It will NOT be getting better, it is a downward spiral.
 
BigBadLou said:
I don't see what the fuss is all about.
Smart people know that most journalists are nothing but bumbling fumbling idiots with no real knowledge, of even their native language.
This article should NOT be a surprise to us smart people (yes, I consider us pilots smart people, please correct me if I'm wrong :D ).

The world is full of idiots trying to make money off of idiots (example: printing sensationalist c*ap in newspapers). Get used to it. It will NOT be getting better, it is a downward spiral.
Click to expand...

Problem is just how many idiots are out there, never underestimate them when they start stampeding in large numbers.

Idiot stampede scares the FAA, FAA piddles themselves and starts passing stupid regs to appease the idiot stampede, us smart pilot types pay the cost.
 
That idiot has been making up aviation fiction for USA today for a while now. It's all BS, always will be.
 
Sounds OK to me. That's right Iceman general aviation is dangerous.:lol:
 
Stewartb said:
You decide if the article has merit based on the NTSB report.

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...c832651-cecc-49a2-980a-5071a1f6e1a1&pgsize=50
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I read a lousy pilot with low time who screwed up. How about you? What do you think? As for seat tracks on cessnas that failed, many really did. I had one. Mine slipped while I could still control and stop the airplane, a cessna 195. Others were not so lucky and died. Poor design which was apparent when one looked closely. Most GA accidents are avoidable, too many due to stupid decisions regarding weather, poor training , lousy maintence to old tired aircraft. Much of the general reputation the public has about light aircraft is due to above.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I read a lousy pilot with low time who screwed up. How about you? What do you think? As for seat tracks on cessnas that failed, many really did. I had one. Mine slipped while I could still control and stop the airplane, a cessna 195. Others were not so lucky and died. Poor design which was apparent when one looked closely. Most GA accidents are avoidable, too many due to stupid decisions regarding weather, poor training , lousy maintence to old tired aircraft. Much of the general reputation the public has about light aircraft is due to above.
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Me? I think a young, inexperienced, excited, probably distracted pilot made a mistake that had tragic results. Very sad. Also sad that a reporter chose to use this accident as the opening salvo for a poorly conceived and poorly executed article.

I had a seat pin break on the pilot seat of my 180. I already had the locking reels installed. The locking reel worked so well I went ahead with the flight. I did have an Aerostop in the glove box and added it as a backup.
 
But did he file a flight plan ??? :dunno:
 
Interesting that the article makes note of 45,000 aviation related deaths in 50 years.
When compared to the number for automobiles, it's a drop in the bucket.
But auto crashes happen everyday so it's not newsworthy.
 
bluerooster said:
Interesting that the article makes note of 45,000 aviation related deaths in 50 years.
When compared to the number for automobiles, it's a drop in the bucket.
But auto crashes happen everyday so it's not newsworthy.
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http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/812101.pdf

RoOLTao.png
 
Well, then let's examine an NTSB report that I am intimately familiar with:

THE PILOT REPORTED THE AIRCRAFT CLIMBED 50 TO 150 FEET ABOVE THE RUNWAY WHEN THE ENGINE BEGAN RUNNING ROUGH AND LOOSING POWER. HE WAS
UNABLE TO MAINTAIN ALTITUDE AND ELECTED TO LAND ON A ROAD. THE AIRCRAFT'S WING STRUCK A BRIDGE DURING THE LANDING ROLL AND THE AIRCRAFT
OVERTURNED.

THE ENGINE LOG REFLECTED THAT THE RIGHT MAGNETO POINTS AND DISTRIBUTOR BLOCK WERE REPLACED AND BOTH MAGNETOS WERE RETIMED ON
JULY 14, 1981 AT 4329 TOTAL AIRFRAME HOURS. THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE THAT INSPECTIONS WERE PERFORMED DURING THE EIGHT YEARS AND 1,233
OPERATIONAL HOURS PRECEDING THE ACCIDENT. DURING THE POST ACCIDENT ENGINE TEST THE RIGHT MAGNETO FAILED AFTER OPERATING FOR 10 MINUTES. AN
EXAMINATION OF THE RIGHT MAGNETO COIL DISCLOSED EVIDENCE OF ARCING.

The report reflects the service in 1981. That part is true. What they somehow MISSED was the complete rebuild of both magnetos in 1994. Since they confiscated the logs, I cannot state with certainty the date or the time. What I can state with certainty is that the mags were rebuilt at our local shop here on the airport and that a 500 hour inspection was done by myself in a (not required) service bulletin and logged a couple of years later.

Now, let's talk about liability. The reason this report was not challenged was that my insurance company was in a lawsuit with my (uninjured) passengers and they didn't want me to make waves with the NTSB. Poor choice on my part. Here is the deal.

On that engine in that particular airframe, the right mag fires only the top plugs and the left mag fires only the bottom plugs. THis is the ONLY aircraft engine I've ever worked on where the top and the bottom aren't shared between the two mags. In my opinion, this is a design flaw that Cessna engineered into the airplane where one mag fails and the whole top or bottom set of plugs become inop.

Now consider how an aircraft engine burns fuel. The fire starts and the plugs and burns in a flame front from that plug until it burns out of fuel. If, for example, the top plugs/magneto fails the flame front burns from the bottom to the top, where it gets the hottest and then runs out of gas vapor. IF the engine designed for unleaded gas is now forced to burn leaded, the top plugs will have a coating or deposit of lead. This lead will then melt in the hottest part of the flame and become lead vapor. As it passes out the bottom of the cylinder on the exhaust stroke, it will pass by the relatively cool bottom plugs and plate out onto those plugs. In a very few cycles, the lead from the "dead" top plugs foul the cool bottom plugs and now you have no ignition at all.

So, now we have an engine with lots of gas but no spark. The freeway was the option and the bridge was the obstacle. WEre it not for the clapped-out Datsun with 5 kids in the back seat watching me catch up to them on my final approach, I would have been able to land on the freeway with no problem. Since that prop would have killed those kids without even stopping for breath, moving over to the left and hitting the bridge was the option.

So now I leave it to you. Who was at fault here? Cessna for designing an engine with non-standard ignition patterns? Slick for prescribing inspections for which the coil was not an inspection item (how do you inspect inside of a potted coil?)? The mechanic that followed all procedures (that would be me)? The pilot who got it on the ground without so much as a scratch on anybody (that would be me also)? Or the idiots in the airplane with me that sued me because they couldn't have sex any more because they were so traumatized?

Or the NTSB for its failure to look at the logs and report what was there and not take the time to read them thoroughly?

Your call, folks

Jim
 
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When the article started out: "drove the single-engine plane down Runway 17" I knew it was going to be ugly.
 
Stewartb said:
I had a seat pin break on the pilot seat of my 180. I already had the locking reels installed. The locking reel worked so well I went ahead with the flight. I did have an Aerostop in the glove box and added it as a backup.
Click to expand...


Glad to hear it worked.

I still set my aerostop out of habit and because I have never tested the inertia stop. It bugs me. I like the thought of a hard stop down there.

Oh, and the article sucks.
 
Aero Stops are great. Until they aren't. Like when your engine goes BANG and starts on fire on the ground, and you try to get out to deal with it. I'd used an Aero Stop for many years and using it was habit but in an emergency? It wasn't a simple operation to release it. That incident not only cost me a lot of money but it convinced me to add the Cessna seat reel. In fact, since my wife's seat had slid TWICE while taxiiing and her response in both cases was to grab the yoke? I paid my own money to have the reel added to the passenger seat at the same time. Money well spent.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine died in an accident that had sliding seat syndrome written all over it. Sadly his mom and three of his kids were in the airplane, too. All died. Two very good friends witnessed the whole thing. Take off, pitch up, a fiery aftermath. A few months ago when the east coast accident of a high time 180 pilot happened, along with the video we all saw, I called the NTSB to question them about the current accident and the fatal accident that took my friend and his family. I was interested in the pilot seat lock and also the passenger seat lock, since a passenger's seat is more likely to slide (less familiar) and the result would be the same. The investigator was a very nice guy and took the time to talk to me. He had personal knowledge of my friend's accident and told me that he had, without a doubt, confirmed the security of not only the pilot seat's position but also that of the passenger seat. That broke my heart a little because it confirmed the report. Pilot's failure to maintain control of the airplane. But to me that's a generic statement. I don't know what happened in the moments before the crash. Did his kids have a problem that distracted him? Did his cargo shift? We'll never know, and it doesn't matter. There wasn't a catastrophic failure of any important systems. That's all the NTSB can go by. They aren't perfect, they're people. And sometimes they provide synopses that some of us don't want to hear. And that's what civil court is there for. Ever heard a pilot ***** about civil courts and lawyers? Yes. we all have. It seems like a plague until we're the ones burying the dead. I struggle with it. I've buried a few friends and my kid's a lawyer. All in all I think the system's the best we can hope for.

I said in another thread that I don't judge accident pilots. I don't. I wasn't there to understand the factors that led them into harm's way. Stuff happens.

My thoughts on a late evening. Cheers.
 
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Because I'm not quite ready to lay down yet I'll tell you another story. About 15 years ago I was flying with my wife and kid to the cabin and chatted with one of my best friends on the comm enroute. It was a nice evening and we are all happy to be away from work. We signed off and a few minutes later the wind started and we were getting beat around like the final moments of the SS Minnow. My wife commented that she hoped Dan was okay. I didn't think much about it. A few days later we had to come home and after landing and on the drive home I got a call from a friend that my buddy was overdue and missing. I instantly hung up and called the Rescue Coordination Center, excited to help because I knew where he was. They were polite but directed me to call the family (I should have recognized the clue). I did. When Betty (sister) answered I offered to fly out to where Dan was so I could look. She was clearly distracted and put me on hold. She took a long time. While I waited the radio news guy announced that the Air Guard had located a wreck and identified two bodies. Dan and Maureen. I hung up the phone with Dan's sister. I cried like a baby at that funeral. I still miss him.

The NTSB report said "pilot's failure to maintain control". They weren't incorrect. But their synopsis didn't tell the whole story (in my opinion). But they had no evidence of a sudden change in conditions and we, as pilots, are responsible for maintaining control throughout our flights. It didn't matter. The funeral didn't hinge on the report.
 
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Heartbreaking stories. Sorry to hear about your friends.

Luckily, I've had no accidents or incidents and don't know anyone personally who has. Not fatal anyway ... We fly because we love it. Not because it's safe. I guess I'm the type who thinks when it's your time, it's your time. People fall off foot stools and die, so trying to make sense out of some fatalities is pointless. It's destiny, or just rotten luck.

Emergency ingress and egress with the aerostops I hadn't given any thought to before. I know to pop the doors if we're going down, but getting that stop out of the way would be daunting during the mailstrom of an engine out or an upset. Food for thought ....
 
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Ryanb said:
Not sure if this has been addressed on here or not. What are your thoughts on the following article, do you think the NTSB reports are actually false?



http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...aft-carnage-unfit-for-flight-part-1/10405323/
Click to expand...


Oh look. It's USA Today! Guaranteed BS and I didn't even need to click on the article.

There are two places I won't even click on for aviation journalism. ANN and USA Today.

I skip both, and my life is not only not missing anything, but probably enriched for having not done so.
 
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