Wha' cha think?

lsimonds

lsimonds

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Lisa Simonds
Here's a not-your-normal path to Rome:

What would you think about a pretty busy businessman getting a private in a high performance, complex single. The training would consist of lots of logged cross country hours (for business), followed by short, intense training sessions patterned after the accelerated curricula. Advantage for the student in logging lots of hours (and cross-country experience). One negative is not getting much bang for buck, training-wise, on the cross countries because not doing most of the task (filing flight plans, radio work, etc.)

I tend on the conservative side, so I'm not a fan of this, but I just wondered who might know someone who has successfully trained in a way similar to this, or just what you think of it...

Sound off!

Thanks!

Lisa
 
I think it's a fine idea for IFR and maybe commercial training. I have my doubts in terms of primary training. Will the business & traveling get in the way of the learning?

The complex plane will add training time. As will the long trips.

The participants in this venture need to be very, very careful that the training and lesson plans are structured so that the operation doesn't become a de-facto Part 135 program. I'm not up on all the nuances of what constitutes something that smells like 135, but I would think (at a minimum) that each trip will need a lesson plan that is actually followed, documentation of training, etc.
 
lsimonds said:
Here's a not-your-normal path to Rome:

What would you think about a pretty busy businessman getting a private in a high performance, complex single. The training would consist of lots of logged cross country hours (for business), followed by short, intense training sessions patterned after the accelerated curricula. Advantage for the student in logging lots of hours (and cross-country experience). One negative is not getting much bang for buck, training-wise, on the cross countries because not doing most of the task (filing flight plans, radio work, etc.)

I tend on the conservative side, so I'm not a fan of this, but I just wondered who might know someone who has successfully trained in a way similar to this, or just what you think of it...

Sound off!

Thanks!

Lisa
Click to expand...

Go with your gut.

This seems more like he is using you as a charter pilot and hopes to get a private out of it. My guess is he is also fishing for the answers from you that will get him what he wants the way he wants it regardless of your wishes or experience. Doing this type of arrangment would be a abdication of your role as PIC and instructor. Offer him the plan you are comfortable with and walk if he does not want that.
 
Quick clarification: I'm a nosey-noodle...not involved in the operation (wouldn't be if I were a CFI). It's an observed situation involving a friend who loves shortcuts. I didn't even think about the Part 135 piece....
 
lsimonds said:
Quick clarification: I'm a nosey-noodle...not involved in the operation (wouldn't be if I were a CFI). It's an observed situation involving a friend who loves shortcuts. I didn't even think about the Part 135 piece....
Click to expand...
Ahhh. Well, we have a busted CFI in our flying club who was doing that... no longer a director, either.

I did point that out to him two years ago and he ignored it.
 
I did that one time with a guy in a skymaster, i explained what it was going to take, ahead of time, it took him longer to get rated but i think he turned out to be a better pilot overall because of it, last i knew he was out west somewhere flying his own citation.
 
Of course, if the businessman wannabe pilot owned the plane he was training in, the 135 operation is no longer a factor.
 
lsimonds said:
Quick clarification: I'm a nosey-noodle...not involved in the operation (wouldn't be if I were a CFI). It's an observed situation involving a friend who loves shortcuts. I didn't even think about the Part 135 piece....
Click to expand...

That just seems like yet another red flag to me.
 
It sounds a lot like Situationally-Based Training (SBT) which the FAA has endorsed as part of the FITS program. As long as the syllabus is properly developed within FITS guidelines, I see no reason why it should not be acceptable to AFS-800.
 
lsimonds said:
One negative is not getting much bang for buck, training-wise, on the cross countries because not doing most of the task (filing flight plans, radio work, etc.)
Click to expand...
I agree with Ron...it would be a good application of SBT and the FITS program...my question is, why would the student not be doing thie flight plans, radio work, etc.?

I know a couple of people who have trained primaries in Bonanzas. It worked out pretty well overall...the biggest problem is finding an instructor who's willing to put forth the effort to do it right.

Fly safe!

David
 
wesleyj said:
The biggest problem we face in GA, is finding CFIs willing to put forth the effort to do any type of training properly.
Click to expand...

Speaking of this, does anyone have knowledge about lawsuits aimed at CFIs who sign off students who subsequently have mishaps? I would love to be a CFI someday, but hearing rumors about this type of activity gave me pause. Any truth in it?
 
To go back a step, one of the requirements of the FITS concept is to involve the trainee in all the work from day one, including weather briefings, flight planning, etc. Yes, at first it's just watching, but it should progress rapidly to doing with the instructor just watching. If the instructor is doing it all, and the trainee just shows up to jump in and fly, that's not SBT, and it's not FITS, and it's not going to get past FSDO scrutiny as a faux-135 operation.

As for the lawsuit issue, yes, CFI's have been sued when their students later prang, but I've never heard details of a case where the CFI lost, and this is covered in the "product liability" clause of a standard CFI insurance policy.
 
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