"We'll call off search and rescue"

ChrisK

ChrisK

En-Route
Joined
Sep 9, 2011
Messages
4,511
Location
Medina, OH
Display Name
Display name:
Toph
Flew up to visit the family this weekend. Was my first overnight trip, so this was a small but notable experience booster. As some may recall, visiting my family involves flying over the Lake Erie islands between Ohio and Ontario, and descending over Lake St. Clair to land at 76G. Because of the Canadian overflight, I'm required to be on a flight plan and on flight following, but the route I take keeps me clear of restricted and - once I duck under CLE - Class B airspace.

As soon as I landed, I taxied over to the pumps, shut off my engine, and called FSS. Closed my flight plan with what I thought was no issue, though in retrospect the briefer may have seemed a bit - distracted? I texted my ride, put my phone back in my pocket, and proceeded to fuel and secure the aircraft.

About an hour later I'm in the car with my stepfather and his phone rang. Of course, it was flight service looking for me (I listed his mobile as an alternate contact on my flight plan). He handed me the phone. I said that I had called to close as soon as I landed and was told "we have no record of that" and "we'll call off search and rescue for your Canada overflight" (as recommended, I put that in the remarks section). I pulled my phone out of my pocket and noticed that they tried me twice and that the ringer was off.

Of course, I'm willing to scratch this up to some sort of human error, though I thought the briefer may have been more than a little snarky. I thought that it was strange that the briefer indicated that they had called search and rescue prior to calling either the manned airport (which could see my tail number clearly from the FBO, not to mention that I purchased fuel), or at least my alternate contact.

Shy of getting a receipt or a confirmation number (ha!) when closing my flight plan, I don't think there is anything else I could have done. Since I fly an awful lot not on a flight plan, this was the first time I got that sort of call. I have to put "arm my phone" on my secure aircraft checklist though.
 
Last edited:
Does this qualify for an ASRS report? They're not only for get out of jail free cards. It sounds like a real problem if they actually called out search and rescue and had to call it off.

My guess is that whoever called was just trying to make you feel bad for not closing the flight plan and didn't believe you that you had actually called.
 
marcoseddi said:
Could you close flight plans through Foreflight or Garmmin?
Click to expand...
I have Foreflight, and I do not see that this is a function of the software.

Steve Foley said:
Does this qualify for an ASRS report? They're not only for get out of jail free cards. It sounds like a real problem if they actually called out search and rescue and had to call it off.

My guess is that whoever called was just trying to make you feel bad for not closing the flight plan and didn't believe you that you had actually called.
Click to expand...

Hm. Not a bad idea. Maybe suggest a process improvement to email a pilot once a flight plan has been closed. I like the emailed briefs and notifications I get from Foreflight.

I think you're right that the briefer simply did not believe I had called.

You know, I know the Michigan alert officer for CAP. I should find out if the ever DID get called out for a ramp check.
 
ChrisK said:
Flew up to visit the family this weekend. Was my first overnight trip, so this was a small but notable experience booster. As some may recall, visiting my family involves flying over the Lake Erie islands between Ohio and Ontario, and descending over Lake St. Clair to land at 76G. Because of the Canadian overflight, I'm required to be on a flight plan and on flight following, but the route I take keeps me clear of restricted and - once I duck under CLE - Class B airspace.

As soon as I landed, I taxied over to the pumps, shut off my engine, and called FSS. Closed my flight plan with what I thought was no issue, though in retrospect the briefer may have seemed a bit - distracted? I texted my ride, put my phone back in my pocket, and proceeded to fuel and secure the aircraft.

About an hour later I'm in the car with my stepfather and his phone rang. Of course, it was flight service looking for me (I listed his mobile as an alternate contact on my flight plan). He handed me the phone. I said that I had called to close as soon as I landed and was told "we have no record of that" and "we'll call off search and rescue for your Canada overflight" (as recommended, I put that in the remarks section). I pulled my phone out of my pocket and noticed that they tried me twice and that the ringer was off.

Of course, I'm willing to scratch this up to some sort of human error, though I thought the briefer may have been more than a little snarky. I thought that it was strange that the briefer indicated that they had called search and rescue prior to calling either the manned airport (which could see my tail number clearly from the FBO, not to mention that I purchased fuel), or at least my alternate contact.

Shy of getting a receipt or a confirmation number (ha!) when closing my flight plan, I don't think there is anything else I could have done. Since I fly an awful lot not on a flight plan, this was the first time I got that sort of call. I have to put "arm my phone" on my secure aircraft checklist though.
Click to expand...
AFaIK LM is required to record all calls so they should be able to dig that up if you have a date and time (check your cellphone log). I recommend you give FSS a call, ask for a supervisor and explain your situation. They should be willing to look into this and might even institute some changes so it doesn't happen in the future.

In any case there's no blood on your hands, you did what you're supposed to do and LM made one or more mistakes. The fact that they were able to contact you via your stepfather tells me they probably hadn't gotten anywhere near to launching SAR and the person who got "snarky" was just trying to impress upon you the consequences of forgetting to cancel. I'm pretty certain that "But I did call and close my flight plan" is a response they get a lot when that's not true so there's a good chance the caller didn't believe your story at all.
 
They don't call out the CAP until 3 hours have passed, and there's no real FAA violation here anyway. Worst that can happen is you get charged for the gas the CAP uses hunting for you, and if you did call and cancel, the tape from that call will get you out of the hole.

As for an ASRS, I really don't see the point -- this isn't a systemic safety problem, and there's no FAA violation involved.
 
Lots of "missing" aircraft are found in the telephone search. We were out at a meeting and when we returned we got back one of our houseguests greeted us.

"The FAA called."
"What did they want?"
"I don't know I didn't answer the phone."
"How did you know it was the FAA?"
"It was on the caller ID."

Turns out one of our other residents had landed with a diaper emergency for their 18 month old and forgot to close the plan.
 
If you file your flight plan via DUATS, then you can also close via DUATS (very convenient with a smartphone), which will give you a confirmation message.
 
acrophile said:
If you file your flight plan via DUATS, then you can also close via DUATS (very convenient with a smartphone), which will give you a confirmation message.
Click to expand...

I have never tried that. I opened filed both of them via Foreflight which uses my DUATS connection, and open them on the radio. That would be quite handy.

Thanks for the comments. I've been mildly concerned about it since I got back. Guess I'll knock that off.
 
Last edited:
This is a system ripe for a technology overhaul. I've run into the same issues with some students who could show me their phone log where the called after landing. If this continues one solution would be A change that would require their system to generate a confirmation code to be given the pilot.

I think an even better solution would be to integrate support for txt messaging into the activation/closing process. It would be so much easier to submit an activation via txt right before takeoff (or during climb out) rather than trying to raise FSS on the radio. A confirmation of activation via txt would assure you it had been opened. Same for closing after the flight. That would be convenient and provide confirmation your flight plan was closed. I think the convenience of that would encourage more pilots to take advantage of the flight plan system.
 
acrophile said:
If you file your flight plan via DUATS, then you can also close via DUATS (very convenient with a smartphone), which will give you a confirmation message.
Click to expand...

Garmin Pilot supports closing. Does ForeFlight? I haven't seen it if it does.
 
LDJones said:
Garmin Pilot supports closing. Does ForeFlight? I haven't seen it if it does.
Click to expand...

I just looked at both of my recently filed plans and I do not see that feature. Just took this from the Pilot's Guide, page 59 (http://cloudfront.foreflight.com/ffmpilotsguide51.pdf) :

Note: Once a flight plan has been filed, it cannot be cancelled or closed using ForeFlight Mobile. However, if you have entered your own DUATS sign-in credentials in ForeFlight Mobile AND the flight departs in more than 2 hours, you can cancel the flight plan at the DUATS website http://www.duats.com
Click to expand...
 
acrophile said:
If you file your flight plan via DUATS, then you can also close via DUATS (very convenient with a smartphone), which will give you a confirmation message.
Click to expand...

I would be careful with this. I have tried it twice and both times just didn't feel a warm and fuzzy so I called after closing via duats. Both times FSS said duats didn't close the flight plan. I don't know what the issue was but I don't trust it anymore. I file via duats, the worst that can happen is I re-file in the air.
 
LDJones said:
This is a system ripe for a technology overhaul. I've run into the same issues with some students who could show me their phone log where the called after landing. If this continues one solution would be A change that would require their system to generate a confirmation code to be given the pilot.

I think an even better solution would be to integrate support for txt messaging into the activation/closing process. It would be so much easier to submit an activation via txt right before takeoff (or during climb out) rather than trying to raise FSS on the radio. A confirmation of activation via txt would assure you it had been opened. Same for closing after the flight. That would be convenient and provide confirmation your flight plan was closed. I think the convenience of that would encourage more pilots to take advantage of the flight plan system.
Click to expand...

I've never texted in my life. Not what I would call a universal solution to the problem.

Bob Gardner
 
All you need is your phone log. I am strongly against requiring more of the pilot in the case of an admin/staffing/training/attention span problem with FSS(LM).
 
Direct C51 said:
I would be careful with this. I have tried it twice and both times just didn't feel a warm and fuzzy so I called after closing via duats. Both times FSS said duats didn't close the flight plan. I don't know what the issue was but I don't trust it anymore. I file via duats, the worst that can happen is I re-file in the air.
Click to expand...

Hm, that's interesting. Did the DUATS page display a confirmation message after you closed the plan? I always take a screenshot of the confirmation for documentation. The message includes tail number etc., and says "Closure message filed with CSC DUATS and is being forarded to [location] Flight Service at [date/time]".
 
bobmrg said:
I've never texted in my life. Not what I would call a universal solution to the problem.

Bob Gardner
Click to expand...
Not every pilot has a cellphone and not every isolated airport has a payphone. There are no universal solutions today, each option can be valuable. I would love to be able to obtain clearances and cancel flight plans via texting and providing that ability isn't likely to preclude your ability to walk to the nearest 7-11 after landing and call FSS.

And even the neanderthals might benefit if I'm able to cancel quickly via a text when they're holding for the approach.
 
bobmrg said:
I've never texted in my life. Not what I would call a universal solution to the problem.
Click to expand...

Who said it needed to be a universal solution, although my guess is it would be "universal" for those under 40. No offense, Bob, but we're old....it is the standard means of communications for the generation behind us!

Txt messaging has grown rapidly in its application. MyFBO sends me a txt every time something happens on a schedule affecting me. My students send me a txt before and after every solo flight so I can monitor their flight activity. I get txt alerts for a plethora of applications (that I have chosen) simply because it's quick, simple, and pretty darn reliable.

One of its strengths is it is pretty reliable even in flight. I routinely send position reports and ETA info to friends and family when flying, obviating the need for FSS flight plans in many cases.

Requiring human interaction simply to activate a flight plan is an unsustainable situation, in my opinion.
 
Only once in 30+ years of flying did FSS drop the ball on not closing my flight plan.. Back in 1985,, way before cell phones, security cameras on guv building ,etc... My wife and I flew down to Miami for the Grand Prix... I was on flight following the whole way.. Just before I checked in with Tamiami tower @ Krome Ave and the Trail, I called FSS on the radio.. told them I was 10 miles out and cancelled my flight plan.... They said " thanks N4341X, flight plan closed".. I then contacted tower, landed, tied down at the FBO... I had a old friend who worked at FSS and back then you could actually walk in to FSS, which was right next door to the FBO, and get a briefing... So.. we walked over to see if he was working, chatted with the guy working the desk that morning. Told him we just got in and gave him my home number back in Apopka Fla since my friend was not on duty that day....

We get to the hotel and the phone in the room had that red light blinking and I thought WTF ??? So I called the front deck and they told me the FAA called and was looking for me... Holy *****..:hairraise:...... I called them they told me I had not closed my flight plan... Yeah right !!!!!..

I explained to them exactly what I just typed here.... About an hour later the FAA called back... They had pulled the tapes, played them back and were convinced I had REALLY cancelled over the radio and the person didn't record it...... To add to this.. In another ongoing thread in POA about FSS calling to search for a plane the common response in that thread is for FSS to call the tower first to see if a plane actually landed.....In my case they didn't even phone the tower to comfirm I had landed.:mad2::mad2:.

To the OP........ Have them pull the tapes.. You will rest easy after that.:yes:
 
N801BH said:
To the OP........ Have them pull the tapes.. You will rest easy after that.:yes:
Click to expand...
Eh, I closed over the phone. I have my cell log, but unless there is some sort of enforcement action, I see no reason to spend the time it takes to call them.
 
ATC used to have to give "initials" when coordinating over landlines, FSS people had them too. Not sure if the current LM FSS people have them. You could always ask for their "initials" when you talk to them.

Your cell and your cell company has a log call file if they try to send you a bill.
If the guy gets snarky on the phone, be sure to get his initials and then ask for a supervisor. You are paying for a service you are not getting.

I think text capability to open and close flight plans, especially VFR would be great! You can have a pin associated with your DUATS so they know it is you. "Nxxxxx, VFR close, pin#"

This would not be the only way, just another option.
It would be nice if our towers would close VFR flight plans too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top