Washington ADIZ question

Rob Schaffer

Rob Schaffer

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Tomorrow, I have my checkride and I was told to plan a flight to Gaithersburg MD (GAI). This puts me into the ADIZ. I've downloaded the AOPO and ASF infomormation and reviewed the airpsace flash presentation, and have a question.

When filling out the flight plan form, I have to provide type of plane (c152/U), fuel, time, etc. Not a problem there. I plan to enter through the WOOLY Gate once a squalk would be assigned. BUT, why do the instructions on the flight plan form indicate that all flights into the ADIZ to be checked IFR? and not DVFR? Wouldn't that be something wrong regulatory wise, since I am not IFR rated or in a plane equiped for IFR? At the bottom of the form, it even states that ADIZ clearance does not mean you get ATC services, separation, etc automatically, they are still provided on a workload case basis.

I just want to be sure for the Oral portion of the flight test tomorrow that I understand the planning, but this seems incorrect... any insight for those of you from that area why this is?

(cross posted on AOPA forum too, since it's their material I'm reading)
 

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Yes, you file the flight plan as IFR, ensuring that it ends up in the right hands, namely ATC (Potomac Approach). It won't be confused with a real IFR flight plan, because you'll put "ADIZ DUATs" in the remarks field.

If you filed it VFR, it would go to FSS, which wouldn't help. I don't know how a DVFR flight plan is routed, but this is really an ADIZ in name, only.

There are no IFR implications, it doesn't matter if you're not IFR rated, nobody will try to issue you an IFR clearance. You can't assume you're getting VFR traffic advisories, though you might be. You are certainly not cleared into Bravo, unless you ask for and receive an explicit clearance (which isn't really necessary for landing GAI), so you'd plan to be below the Bravo shelf by the time you get near here.

If you were going to do this for real, you'd call up on the suggested frequency for that sector (probably 132.77, there's a chart in the AF/D) about 10 miles out, you'd be issued a squawk and told to remain clear. Once they identify you on radar, they'll allow you in ("transponder observed, proceed on course to gaithersburg, remain clear of class bravo"). You report GAI in sight (when it is), and they'll release you to CTAF, but you keep squawking the assigned code until you're parked on the ground.

On the way back out from GAI, you'd get your squawk code and departure frequency from Potomac over the local clearance delivery frequency (121.6, also in the AF/D) before departure, or else over the telephone. You need to do this before departing, so you're squawking the right code when you takeoff.
-harry
p.s. By the way, your route likely doesn't take you across it, but you'll be "near enough" to P-40 that the examiner may ask you about it, so you might want to make sure you're clear on what going's on there. There's a P and an R, stacked vertically, that are always there, and when the POTUS is at Camp David, they issue a TFR that expands it to the size of the white area on the chart.
 
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Also, usually you put in an altitude incompatible with IFR flight.

Les
 
mantakos said:
If you were going to do this for real, you'd call up on the suggested frequency for that sector (probably 132.77, there's a chart in the AF/D) about 10 miles out, you'd be issued a squawk and told to remain clear. Once they identify you on radar, they'll allow you in ("transponder observed, proceed on course to gaithersburg, remain clear of class bravo"). You report GAI in sight (when it is), and they'll release you to CTAF, but you keep squawking the assigned code until you're parked on the ground.
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I don't think this is quite right. The NOTAM requires:
1. ADIZ flight plan on file.
2. Discrete beacon code.
3. Two-way comms with ATC.
4. Depart the ADIZ via most direct route if the transponder fails.

Speed restrictions are also specified, but those are probably well above the average GA fleet member.

Regardless, there is no "ADIZ clearance." If your flight plan is on file and you're "squawking and talking", you're good to go VFR in the ADIZ. I haven't heard "remain clear of the ADIZ" from PCT in a very long time (although I have routinely heard "remain clear of Bravo").

Just DO NOT squawk 1200 in the DC ADIZ at any time. :)
 
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I don't think this is quite right. The NOTAM requires:
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I've heard "remain clear of the ADIZ" on about 25 of the last 30 flights, coming in to GAI from the North. Then a minute or two later, "transponder observed, proceed on course". On a small handful of occasions, I haven't heard "remain clear", but in these cases I've refrained from entering until prodding the controller for "code observed".

That's a semi-recent development, in my experience, but has been consistent for nearly the past year, at least in the sectors I typically frequent. But 2 or 3 years back, my habits were to proceed inbound as soon as I had my squawk, unless explicitly told to remain clear, which very seldom happened back then.

So I agree that you _should_ be able to enter the ADIZ as soon as you're squawking your code, but that doesn't appear to be the view of most of the Potomac controllers I've received service from in recent months, and I heard another pilot get harshly dressed down on frequency for entering without being explicitly "invited", so it appears to me that somewhere along the line the controllers were instructed to change their procedures.

This has nothing to do with any confusion over the term "clearance".
-harry
 
mantakos said:
...that doesn't appear to be the view of most of the Potomac controllers I've received service from in recent months, and I heard another pilot get harshly dressed down on frequency for entering without being explicitly "invited", so it appears to me that somewhere along the line the controllers were instructed to change their procedures.
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I suggest getting in contact with somebody at PCT (a good start is Randy Horner). This is definitely not the modus operandi for Shenandoah sector controllers. Maybe it's just something you Chesapeake sector folks have to deal with. :)

Every time I've talked to them (including Operation Rain Check briefings) they've been clear the ADIZ does not require a clearance. Once they call you by tail number, you've established two-way comms. After that and once you have a squawk code with a flight plan on file, you're legal in the ADIZ.

I don't want new folks (or old-timers, for that matter) screwing it up, nor do I want them thinking they have to hear some "magic phrase" to gain entry.
 
...they've been clear the ADIZ does not require a clearance...
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I don't think they'd describe "code observed, proceed on course" as a "clearance". But "remain clear" is an "instruction", and I'd certainly recommend complying with it.

The faasafety.gov course says:
"ATC will assign a discrete transponder code and may instruct you to remain clear of the DC ADIZ pending the controller's observation of your transponder.
3. Transmit Discrete Code. Set the assigned code in your transponder and be sure that it is set to Mode C (ALT). When the controller observes your transponder, you will be instructed to "proceed on course" or "proceed as requested." This instruction does not constitute clearance into Class B airspace, which must be separately requested and explicitly authorized. Sample transmission:
tower.gif
Cessna 12345, transponder observed; proceed as requested; remain clear of Class B; report (destination airport) in sight.
​
If you do not hear this transmission, you may want to ask the controller to verify that he or she has observed your transponder on the assigned code."
​
-harry
 
mantakos said:
I don't think they'd describe "code observed, proceed on course" as a "clearance". But "remain clear" is an "instruction", and I'd certainly recommend complying with it.
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My point is your controller shouldn't be giving you that instruction - and at least their managers know it. Call them about it. Again, I've not heard any of the several controllers in Shenandoah sector use that phrase in years, so maybe Chesapeake sector folks just have a wider control streak. Remember, Chesapeake is the sector who kept a pilot holding outside the ADIZ until he ran out of fuel (although he should have landed long before that point). :)

I know the person who wrote that FAA safety course, BTW, and we've had a few discussions over that point. There is nothing in the official documentation anywhere that says you must remain clear after being given a discrete code. That course is an ultra-conservative interpretation - kinda like telling a student pilot "never take off without full fuel tanks." Feel free to follow it, but it is not part of 14 CFR nor the AIM nor NOTAM. :)
 
Generally you'll only get a "remain clear" if you call up just outside the ADIZ. Since the radar needs a few seconds to sweep around, Potomac needs about a minute after they give you the code before they can actually confirm that they see it. If you call up 5 or 10 miles outside, and report that position, you generally won't get the "remain clear".

No, it's NOT required to comply with the NOTAM. Yes, it HAS prevented folks who squawked the wrong code or didn't get the transponder back on after changing codes from violating the ADIZ. It adds minimal hassle and lots of value to know that ATC has (on the record) confirmed that you have the right code set.
 
You should never hear "cleared into the ADIZ" for a VFR entry, but until you hear "transponder observed," do not enter. If for any reason your transponder isn't working properly on both Modes A and C, if you enter, you will be violated, and you can't be certain it's working properly until you hear those words. Even if Harrisburg or Pax River or Philly was working you OK, don't take the chance until you're sure Potomac is seeing your code/altitude.

Also, remember that ADIZ entry authorization is not a clearance into the Bravo space -- you must also hear "cleared into the Bravo" before you can do that.
 
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Ron Levy said:
...until you hear "transponder observed," do not enter. If for any reason your transponder isn't working properly on both Modes A and C, if you enter, you will be violated...
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Maybe. The NOTAM says you must have an operating transponder to be in the ADIZ. If there's in investigation that proves you knew the transponder was OTS, you deserve a violation. If the last facility reported no problem, there's a reasonable expectation the next one will have no problem.

Here's the rub, though. Pilots expect consistency in ATC services. If ATC is doing something that's not published in any official documentation, but rather in a safety course (and forums like this), how is a VFR pilot doing his first "true" cross country flight into the DC area supposed to know "do not enter the ADIZ until you hear the magic phrase"?

The only "magic phrase" we should be worried about is "transponder not observed, exit the ADIZ via heading [x]". At least that rule is published.

Or change the published rules to be consistent with practice. Just make practice consistent with publication.
 
TknoFlyer said:
Maybe. The NOTAM says you must have an operating transponder to be in the ADIZ. If there's in investigation that proves you knew the transponder was OTS, you deserve a violation. If the last facility reported no problem, there's a reasonable expectation the next one will have no problem.
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It's a nice thought, but not one supported by actual events.
Here's the rub, though. Pilots expect consistency in ATC services. If ATC is doing something that's not published in any official documentation, but rather in a safety course (and forums like this), how is a VFR pilot doing his first "true" cross country flight into the DC area supposed to know "do not enter the ADIZ until you hear the magic phrase"?
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By reading the NOTAM, as required by 14 CFR 91.103.
 
TknoFlyer said:
Pilots expect consistency in ATC services. If ATC is doing something that's not published in any official documentation, but rather in a safety course (and forums like this), how is a VFR pilot doing his first "true" cross country flight into the DC area supposed to know "do not enter the ADIZ until you hear the magic phrase"?
Ron Levy said:
By reading the NOTAM, as required by 14 CFR 91.103.
Click to expand...
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Here's AOPA's plain English translation of the NOTAM:
  1. Two-way radio
  2. Operating transponder with altitude reporting (Mode C)
  3. Flight plan appropriate to intended operation:
    • IFR: IFR flight plan
    • VFR: DC ADIZ flight plan for all operations, except:
    • Fringe airport egress (no flight plan required)
    • Towered airport pattern work (make request to tower)​
  4. Discrete transponder code for all operations, except:​
    • Leesburg (JYO) ingress (1227) or egress (1226)​
    • Fringe airport egress (1205)​
    • Towered airport pattern work (1234)​
  5. VFR speed restriction (≤ 180 KIAS in DC ADIZ, & ≤ 230 KIAS from 30 NM - 60 NM from DCA VOR/DME unless otherwise authorized.)​
  6. Communication with ATC for all operations, except:​
    • Leesburg (JYO) ingress/egress: make CTAF calls​
    • Fringe airport egress: monitor guard if able​
    • Towered airport pattern work: talk to tower​
    • Non-towered airport pattern work:​
    • Make CTAF calls & monitor guard if able​
Maybe I'm just not seeing the requirement for "remain clear of the ADIZ/transponder observed, proceed on course". Can you point me to the part of the NOTAM saying I must hear that?
Neither the NOTAM nor anybody's interpretation (not just AOPA) says you must hear "transponder observed, proceed on course" in order to enter the ADIZ.

Earlier this week re-entering the ADIZ the controller told me he didn't see my transponder (after earlier seeing it), then quickly came back that he did. I confirmed visibility, he affirmed and I continued on. That was the correct way to handle it, not "remain clear of the ADIZ".


I say again:
The only "magic phrase" we should be worried about is "transponder not observed, exit the ADIZ via heading [x]". At least that rule is published. :)
 
Ron Levy said:
Perhaps so, but it does require luck to go into the ADIZ without being certain Potomac can see your transponder on the right code without having a problem.
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Ron, you know they'll let you know if they can't see it. They've even worked out a system to voluntarily tell you they can. The only thing I'm objecting to is the unpublished procedure of "remain clear of the ADIZ [until I tell you you can come in]". If that's what they want every pilot doing, they should publish the procedure (and not in a voluntary training course).
 
TknoFlyer said:
Ron, you know they'll let you know if they can't see it.
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Yes, eventually, but unlike you, when VFR getting a code from Potomac, I'm not willing to trust that they are seeing it until they say so (which they do when they see it). While it doesn't happen often, I have misheard/misdialed codes before, and if you do either, Huntress gets involved and that's something I can't stand. "Doverye, no proverye."
 
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