Video of a flat spin

Wow, that is incredible video. I'm new here and likely would have found that thread eventually, but I certainly don't mind the repost.

"Well, this is it, Neil."

Man...
 
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Amazing recovery, thinking about what he went through. Had I gone through that many rotations at that speed I doubt I'd have had the wherewithal to bring the aircraft to any kind of safe landing.
 
One of the issues with a flat spin is that when you apply the proper spin recovery control positions the spin rate will temporarily increase. If you have the presence of mind to hold those inputs long enough the spin will revert to a normal (nose down) spin from which normal recovery is easy. I suspect more than one pilot has bought it because they concluded they had the wrong input and moved the controls away from the proper recovery position when the spin rate increased, AFaIK most airplanes will recover from a flat spin on their own if the stick is released and full opposite rudder is applied but it can take 5-10 additional rotations.
 
Unless there's a quirk in the spin characteristics (as with the Tipsy Nipper in the video), a flat spin is an intentional spin mode, and is driven by out-spin aileron combined with the gyroscopic effects of the propellor under significant power...plus propblast over the elevator. Most airplanes with neutral and normal spin characteristics will NOT go flat on their own with power off. There's nothing any more "risky" doing an intentional flat spin vs. a normal spin in airplanes that have normal spin characteristics. Various aerobatic airplanes do them safely all the time. I do them in the Pitts, and can recover in less than a half turn with power left on, plus the correct inputs. But never leave power on in an emergency spin recovery situation! But aerobatic airplanes are designed with neutral characteristics, and large, effective control surfaces.

But in non-aerobatic airplanes, I would never try to produce a flat-spin intentionally. Some (non-aerobatic) airplanes can tend to go flat on their own after a certain number of rotations, if allowed. For airplanes that may go flat on their own - there are no generalized assumptions you can make about behavior or recovery of the flat spin unless this has been tested and documented by the designer. Ha...show me a POH for a non-aerobatic airplane that describes flat spin recovery procedures. ;) I do flat spins upright and inverted without a second thought in my Pitts, but I sure wouldn't try one in a Mooney or Cirrus...not that you should intentionally do any type of spin in those. I wouldn't even try a flat spin in a 172. And furthermore, the high power setting imparts a lot of gyroscopic load on the crank flange, which non-aerobatic cranks are not designed for.

Auto flat spins can be a problem due to the fact that the airplane's relative airflow is almost perpendicular to the fuselage. With little forward airflow over the tail, the rudder and elevator become very ineffective. This is why you'll never see an airshow pilot recover a flat spin power off. Power helps with control authority. But power should never be used in any type of emergency spin recovery, since it can make things worse or delay recovery if your airplane does not have these neutral spin characteristics and/or your recovery inputs are not quite perfect.

The pilot in the video finally stumbled upon the right control inputs for flat spin recovery...in-spin aileron. If the approach to landing looked like he was drunk, it's because he was...sorta. After that many turns his inner ear was screwed up and he had significant vertigo and dizziness. I credit him for not giving up and continuing to try different things. Moral of the story...understand your airplane's spin characteristics before you intentionally spin it. If you don't know, prepare to be a test pilot! And of course get good spin training too!
 
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Tipsy Nippers are aerobatic, so a spin is no issue for that airplane. Some planes spin flatter than others by nature, some airplanes have to be forced out of a spin. This is why I NEVER teach spin training in a 172, or other non aerobatic, spin certified aircraft. They usually recover way too easily and give students a false sense of security that if they mush the recovery inputs, or just let go of the yoke it will recover. That is just simply not the case.

Flat spins, and accelerated spins take longer to recover because it takes longer to stop the rotation. You have to really stop the rotation before you can break the stall. When I read the pilots take on the whole thing, I got the impression he was not very comfortable in spin recovery. Especially when doing aerobatics, the spin training you should have done prior, should have included every type of spin you could possibly get into.

The only thing that strikes me as scary in that video, is that he didn't bail out, probably because he didn't have a chute. I have seen one guy buy the farm in a Yak because he couldn't bail out from a botched maneuver. While it is legal for him not to have a parachute on, it is downright retarded. Since what was he knew, was not working for him, he was pretty close to being a statistic. I have had engines quit in spins, and other maneuvers, and while it gets your attention its not a big deal. But in this case it was guaranteeing his flight being cut short since the plane isn't equipped with a starter.
 
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gismo said:
One of the issues with a flat spin is that when you apply the proper spin recovery control positions the spin rate will temporarily increase. If you have the presence of mind to hold those inputs long enough the spin will revert to a normal (nose down) spin from which normal recovery is easy. I suspect more than one pilot has bought it because they concluded they had the wrong input and moved the controls away from the proper recovery position when the spin rate increased, AFaIK most airplanes will recover from a flat spin on their own if the stick is released and full opposite rudder is applied but it can take 5-10 additional rotations.
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This is totally depending on the aircraft I guess, because I can never remember the rate of spin increasing in the aerobatic planes I fly. I recover from upright, inverted, flat and accelerated spins, or any combination of those with the same input in the Pitts and it recovers perfectly. PARE needs to be done in the correct order, and distinctively, ALWAYS. Nothing brings me more joy, than watching a student in the Pitts try to recover from an upright spin with elevator before anything else, and watch the plane go from an upright spin, to an inverted spin. Scares the crap out of them, and makes me laugh out loud.
 
Inverted said:
Tipsy Nippers are aerobatic, so a spin is no issue for that airplane. Some planes spin flatter than others by nature, some airplanes have to be forced out of a spin.
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But even as aerobatic airplanes go, this Tipsy Nipper displays unusual spin characterstics. Most will not enter a flat spin such as this without the use of out-spin aileron combined with a significant amount of power...and hold. And in most, simply pulling the power off will return the airplane to a more nose down normal-ish spin where the standard inputs of opposite rudder, neutral aileron, and some forward stick will recover the spin fairly quickly. Apparently not the case with the Tipsy Nipper. Very unusual to sustain a spin like this with no power and neutral aileron.

In the video with his commentary, he went on about his error in applying (I assume out-spin) aileron during the spin entry. In most aerobatic airplanes, that is not anything to worry about at all, and will not come close to producing the type of spin that happened here. I'm talking about power off entries, or entries where you pull off power (from a very low setting) once the spin breaks. Aileron (either in or out) during the spin entry is a pretty common trick (depending on the airplane) to get a clean competition spin entry and consistent rotation. But all airplanes are different and you need to know their quirks. Good thing he lived to apply and pass along his experience.
 
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Intense.

While it was quite a feat righting the airship, I'm more impressed with his resolve. "Well, this is it, Neil." This gentleman obviously has his affairs in order.
 
This actually makes me want to go up with my original instructor and get refreshed on spin training.

During my initial training in a C-182, it seemed like the recovery was a piece of cake, but this was about 5 years ago...
 
Kainalu said:
This actually makes me want to go up with my original instructor and get refreshed on spin training.

During my initial training in a C-182, it seemed like the recovery was a piece of cake, but this was about 5 years ago...
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You were spinning a 182? I wasn't aware that spins were approved in any 182.
 
Wow, thanks for posting the video. That was intense to say the least.

Why on earth would he not have a parachute? I wouldn't ever go up and do aerobatics without one.
 
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