Vehicle Accident

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Unregistered

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Okay my "friend" recently had a bad motorcycle accident that required him to spend three days in hospital including an overnight in the ER. His Class 3 will be up for renewal in a couple months. Injuries were contusions and road rash, no head or neck injuries, or internal organ injuries. No broken bones.

1. I think all "he" needs to do is report it right?

2. Will any supporting documentation be required? There was a synopsis attached to the discharge papers. Anything more would be a tad difficult to obtain.
 
Get the whole record. Just order it from the hospital. It'll take 3 weeks and have 400 pages. Hopefully there will be no incrimination of alcohol in the lab tests or doc's notes.

No, it's not hard to get it. Just pay the $20 at the med Recrds department, it comes UPS in two weeks, and it's done.
 
All right, let's say some blood samples contain alcohol (which can be explained for without involving drinking and riding.)

1. Given that there was no citation issued or enforcement action taken by the police, would that still be an issue?

2. If so, who will make that decision, the AME or the FAA?
 
Unregistered said:
All right, let's say some blood samples contain alcohol (which can be explained for without involving drinking and riding.)
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Ok... I'll bite... how do you explain that away? And lets not blame a detectable ethyl alcohol level on the use of an isopropyl alcohol prep pad.. it might work in traffic court but not many other places..
 
Here's how the AME is supposed to do it:
Review the record.
If there is serum alcohol above .04......require a DL search for the past 10 years. If there are no alcohol events in the state database, he can issue. If the serum was .15 or greater, better you did not apply. You were opeating machinery successfully with a serum of 150 mg/dl and that means TOLERANCE and chronicity.

If you have a checkered past, it's a problem.......
If the AME doesn't do that, the AME gets into trouble upon FAA review.

Three days in a hospital with only bumps and brusies spells A-L-C-O-H-O-L. 'Casue we can image you head to toe in 3 hours and send you on your way after overnight observation for your brain. If it took 72 hours you had a "toxin" that had to clear.....which likely starts with "al....".

Now I am not soliciting here. But I do review records for just such purposes (on behalf of airmen). It's a mistake to think that FAA is stupid. They're actually very very sharp.
 
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Okay thank you. But one remaining question:

What is the standard for denial of a medical based on alcohol use? Is it based on the fact that alcohol was consumed regardless of the cirumstances, or is it based on the fact that an alcohol related driving offense was committed?

If it's the latter, SOMEONE has to determine that there was a violation of State law, e.g. the accident occurred due to alcohol, and the State has not done so in this case. In our legal system, a failure to press charges in a criminal matter is exactly the same as a trial and acquittal. Jurisdictional law enforcement has investigated and found no cause to charge my friend with DUI. Since DUI is not a Federal crime to begin with, the Fed cannot take primacy away from the State in a matter of State law. I, er, my friend's attorney rather, would have to argue that any blood alcohol present is irrelevant.

>Ok... I'll bite... how do you explain that away? And lets not blame a detectable ethyl alcohol level on the use of an isopropyl alcohol prep pad.. it might work in traffic court but not many other places..

In the interest of confidentiality I'm not going to get in to the details but let's suffice to say those questions have already been asked and answered satisfactorily by the applicable jursdictional authority.
 
The use of alcohol in a situation that creates a danger, is the current definition of an alcohol event. The current federal psychiatrist defines that as use OUTSIDE the home. A motorcycle accident is plainly OUTSIDE the house.

ONE is an event.
TWO is abuse
THREE is dependency.

Thus my comments as to if you have a past event in ten years.

Lastly, the bit about DUIs and who's jurisdiction only devolves on statutory detection requirements. The fact of the medical observations of one, two or three events do not depend on whether the report of event comes through Law Enforcement or a hospital.

It sure sounds to me like you have a problem, as in if you had zero such events you would not be worried about a single event. Make no mistake about it, operation of an aircraft and alcohol in your life, while dancing on a pin of definitions and disclaimers, has no place in aviation.

I recently got a local guy recertified, Helo guy, Life Flight, who was booted out of the house by his wife of 23 years. It took me 10 weeks to get him recertified. He refused to blow and federally that means assumption of greater than .150 and operating a vehicle==>tolerance. It took that long to get the 3 state DL searches, psych eval, and labs done. If he had blown and it was <.15 it would have been much much easier. You can squawk your state law all you want, but the Feds regulate the sky under the interstate commerce act.
 
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>It sure sounds to me like you have a problem, as in if you had zero such events you would not be worried about a single event.

We are in fact talking about zero events, and this would be the first, if it counts as an event. So it sounds like it's not a big deal then.

>Make no mistake about it, operation of an aircraft and alcohol in your life, while dancing on a pin of definitions and disclaimers, has no place in aviation.

I agree completely. I never have and never will touch an airplane's controls if I have had anything to drink.
 
Then relax. Order up the whole record. For all I know the AME may just sign you off as manifestly recovered. However, if he's been to a recent seminar, he'll want the whole book.....
 
Unregistered said:
If it's the latter, SOMEONE has to determine that there was a violation of State law, e.g. the accident occurred due to alcohol, and the State has not done so in this case. In our legal system, a failure to press charges in a criminal matter is exactly the same as a trial and acquittal

In the interest of confidentiality I'm not going to get in to the details but let's suffice to say those questions have already been asked and answered satisfactorily by the applicable jurisdictional authority.
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The FAA's enforcement process is a civil one, not a criminal one. There is no "acquittal" in civil process.

Who determines if its relevant? The FAA does. Not the state, nor the local cop nor the local DA. The FAA is the applicable jurisdictional authority with regards to your airworthiness as an airman. You send all your data to them and they look at the big picture.

Whether or not you were criminally charged is not the point. If you are going to report injuries from a vehicle accident, admit you were the operator of the vehicle, and submit a hospital record that indicates you had alcohol on board.... expect the FAA to pay attention to those facts.

And the FAA makes the rules. And the FAA interprets the rules.. and the FAA enforces the rules. You MAY be able to appeal to an Administrative Law Judge any adverse FAA decisions (or perhaps the NTSB?) Obi Heed Kenobi, one of our resident lawyers is likely much better versed on what administrative due process is with the FAA.

Dr Bruce laid out some very sound ground rules for you. And having worked in many an ER an ICU, he's right on target about his synopsis regarding staying hospitalized for 3 days for road rash/bumps and bruises. That sort of stuff typically gets 23 hour observation MAX. Clearing intoxicants are another matter, and that takes time. Remember, you may be criminally off the hook but still civilly accountable for your actions.

Good luck.
 
OP here. Medical is squared away with no issues. I took Dr. Bruce's advice and ordered the complete records, and the fears that I had did not materialize. AME appreciated the fact I showed up with all paperwork in hand.

Thanks for the help.
 
Unregistered said:
OP here. Medical is squared away with no issues. I took Dr. Bruce's advice and ordered the complete records, and the fears that I had did not materialize. AME appreciated the fact I showed up with all paperwork in hand.

Thanks for the help.
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Aha! So it was not your "friend." :D
 
OP, glad to hear you got your medical, and I hope your alcohol troubles are gone for good.
 
Glad to hear it went well. I've yet to see bad advice from Dr. Bruce.
 
What makes this whole process easier for me to understand is that
FAA isn't interested in looking for legal situations, they are looking at medical situations. They don't really differentiate between arrests, convictions, etc. they are looking at use/abuse/tolerance/addiction. YMMV
 
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