Vans RV-10?

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by shyampatel94, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. shyampatel94

    shyampatel94 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Shyam Patel
    Hey guys, I know this is a kit plane but is their anyway they would build it for you and how much would it cost?
     
  2. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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  3. dukeblue219

    dukeblue219 Line Up and Wait

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    No, they would not build it for you. However, Vans did just begin selling pre-built RV-12 LSAs, if that's something you want to look at. I hear that the -10 is a pretty sweet plane, but you're going to have to build it or find one for sale that has already been built, and they won't be cheap. To give you a ballpark figure, there's one on Barnstormers right now listed at $215k with 115 hours on it, and another for $189,000 with 500 hours. It's an efficient plane, but the IO-540 is still going to burn a lot of gas and cost a lot for overhaul if your mission, as you stated previously, is mostly just flying around the local area.
     
  4. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson En-Route

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    Agreed.

    It's not a "fly around the local area" plane. Definitely a family traveler, or as we call it, "2 people and all the shoes she wants to carry".

    It is efficient with a big engine that is running easily in most operations. With LOP operations it's cheaper to fuel than my old 180hp Maule on a mpg basis. That would not necessarily apply to bopping around the patch though it can be flown fuel efficiently that way too, it's just that you have the wrong plane.

    Bill "2 years, 340 hours and counting" Watson
     
  5. warthog1984

    warthog1984 Cleared for Takeoff

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    The "Brazil factory" will, kind of an involved process though.

    http://www.flyer.com.br/
     
  6. Tarheel Pilot

    Tarheel Pilot Line Up and Wait

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    Why would you want someone else to build a kit airplane? Part of the fun of kit aircraft is the time you spend building it!

    My recommendation: Buy a certified aircraft if you aren't interested in building the kit.
     
  7. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    If a kit plane has the performance and handling you're looking for, but you don't have 2-9 years of time to build one yourself, why not buy one? I would.
     
  8. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

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    To the OP- No one can legally build you an RV-10 including the factory. Their airworthiness certificate falls under the Experimental, Amateur Built category. As the name implies, it is to be built by amateurs, not working for compensation.

    Having said that, there are serial builders that skirt this reg and you often see their planes up for sale in Trade a Plane. A "used" RV-10, with no paint, minimal interior, minimal avionics with the 40 hours flown off, will cost you well north of $200K. Closer to $300K. For that much money, an option would be to buy an A-36 Bonanza, fly it today and be happy.
     
  9. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Even if the same package (give or take) could be bought for half the money?

     
  10. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 En-Route

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    And that is why I begrudgingly fly a certified Piper slo-rrow....By the time the kid or kids are out the house in 20 years the RV-7s may have depreciated enough to move into that market for the Mrs and I.
     
  11. LDJones

    LDJones Touchdown! Greaser!

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    All factors would need to be considered. I wouldn't buy the experimental for the sake of it being experimental, but I would automatically opt off the certified, everything else being equal. But if the same performance and other intangibles are comparable, and the price is 50%, I'd probably go used certified.
     
  12. mrreddick

    mrreddick Filing Flight Plan

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    REALLY? A $300,000 RV-10? Let's get real here. A loaded glass panel RV-10 with leather interior can be found for $225,000 or less. I know several pilots that have paid less. To answer a couple other remarks in this thread, it's a true 4-up with bags and will get you 175 kt cruise with full fuel. Try that in a $700,000 Cirrus. Also, why buy instead of building an RV? You get to fly instead of spending a couple years building and you can still do anything you want to it as an owner.
     
  13. jmp470

    jmp470 Line Up and Wait

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    If your going to buy a used RV 10 for $200K, just get a certified Cirrus instead.
     
  14. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    You really think a few knots or a few pounds means jack squat in real life?

     
  15. RV10flyer

    RV10flyer Pattern Altitude

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    My IFR equipped bird EW= 1656. Gross= 2700. 1044-360 fuel= that leaves 684 for my family and baggage. Cruise at 160 ktas, 10.5 gph, LOP, 12500', 4.5 hrs max flight time for us. Is it worth $165-195K to build yourself? Great plane, but has its limitations like most. Good luck in your plane search.
     
  16. RotorAndWing

    RotorAndWing Final Approach

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    :dunno:

    :popcorn:
     
  17. CJones

    CJones Final Approach

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    I plan for 165 ktas in the -10 running ROP (afraid to get high enough to go LOP with the little kiddo in the plane). I'm guessing LOP would probably put you in the 155-160 ktas area mentioned above.

    It's a great plane. Roomier and faster than the 182RG that we used to XC in, but my wife still likes the high-wing so she can see the ground below. :dunno:
     
  18. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson En-Route

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    I plan for 155 LOP which for my setup seems to be the efficiency sweet spot but I can range from 152 to 160 LOP. Altitude is not a requirement, just injector tuning. I go LOP as soon as I start cruising.

    When people ask me if I am happy with it, I'm compelled to tell them it's better than I ever could have hoped. The performance and simplicity of the design is the basis of my satisfaction. The robust electrical system and advanced avionics I put in it bring great joy. I enjoyed the build but enjoy flying something I built even more. Customizing it to meet my requirements is gratifying as well. Maintaining it is an engaging learning experience.

    I guess I want to say that building and flying my '10 is a true luxury costing much time and money but also a life altering kind of achievement with great rewards.

    Buying and flying a '10 is just an ownership option that personally, I doubt that I would have ever done even if it made good sense. If I didn't build it, I'd go certified. Of course, if and when I sell mine, I'd recommend buying one.

    Bill "just filled the O2 tank and ready for some long, high legs" Watson
     
  19. kenjr

    kenjr Line Up and Wait

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    I've got an O-540 in my Cherokee 235...can carry 1000 lbs of butts and bags with full (84) gallons, lean her out high and she'll burn 11/hr at 130 knots true. All for less than $60k.

    RV what? :)
     
  20. Doggtyred

    Doggtyred En-Route

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    You can buy a quick build which gets it much closer to completion. Thats the legal way.

    The not so legal way is to pay someone to build it for you, and you represent yourself as the builder in the logs and get the repairman certificate when its given its special airworthiness certificate.

    The slightly more legal way is to find one new on the market built by a professional builder and do not get the repairman certificate, and use an A&P for the annual (i mean condition inspection).. you can still do all maintenance if you want.
     
  21. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    Or you can buy one almost completed, finish it yourself, and maybe get the repairman certificate or maybe not. I think I saw a -10 for sale that was mostly done, needed an engine and panel and some finish work, I seem to recall theyanted $85K for it. Could be wrong, but I think that was the price.
     
  22. Richman67

    Richman67 Pre-Flight

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    Hi Guys,

    You can't compare a $200k RV-10 to a similarly equipped/priced certified aircraft. The "life cycle" costs will be much, much different.

    Do your own MX vs A&P/IA
    Condition inspections vs annuals
    "experimental" avionics vs certified
    Parts vs PMA parts

    The list goes on....

    At the end of 10 years, your overall price tag will be far different.

    Richman
     
  23. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Another legal way, and probably the smartest, is to hire a professional builder to assist you in building it. That way you actually end up with the knowledge and experience required to use that Repairman's certificate and you don't waste a bunch of time, money, and materials making mistakes and figuring things out.
     
  24. jesse

    jesse Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It just depends. For the most part, most of the repairs on my experimental flybaby have been marginally cheaper if at all over an equal certified.

    The difference is I don't need an A&P as much on my experimental although that could be worked out on a certified.

    The biggest cost gain over certified is with avionics and if you won't be buying avionics you lose that.
     
  25. RV10flyer

    RV10flyer Pattern Altitude

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    $40,000 experimental/certified mix IFR glass panel and autopilot Vs $???,??? for an all certified panel. Agree.
     
  26. Henning

    Henning Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I'm $40k into my panel including install, adding an AP can be done between $7500 and $30,000 depending on what unit I use and new or used, and $8k you will spend on the radio regardless, if you want IFR. I would like to be able to install a TruTrack though.
     
  27. RV10flyer

    RV10flyer Pattern Altitude

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    I love my Trutrak Digiflight II VSGV!

    http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/documents/DigiflightIIOperatingManual.pdf
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2013
  28. Bill Watson

    Bill Watson En-Route

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    Yep, or anywhere in between 100% DIY and pro-assist. I think some builders stumble a bit on what's in between.

    I started my build with a week-long tail building class involving my tail kit and 2 pros. It's difficult imagining how someone with zero aluminum aircraft building skills can do a first rate job on their first attempt though many do. In one week I went from zero to 100% confidence in tackling any and all aluminum work on my '10. Not to mention a finished fin, rudder and 50% complete stabilizer.

    I've played with composites since model airplane days but I took a weekend class on RV composites to help me tackle that set of challenges.

    So if there is any interest in building combined with $$$, there are a lot of legal and satisfying options.
    I would think that a big difference is the level of work required on a Fly Baby and an RV10, avionics just being a part of it. The repairman's certificate is the big one though.
    I love mine too! The newer GRT and Garmin experimental units must be sweet too but I can't imagine how they work any better.
     
  29. jesse

    jesse Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The parts of that work are often not any cheaper that a certified. The labor is what is going to cost you and you can do it yourself certified with the right relationships. For those that aren't going to do it themselves the cost different is going to be pretty nil assuming similar vintage aircraft of similar condition are being compared.